Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

What are you talking about, if the Movie is only available DVD SD, then the Streaming File will only be SD. I have always said the Streaming Files are the same as the Disc Files!

And you have always been wrong.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I watched a DVD for the first time in a long time last night. It was a movie called Far North with Michelle Yeoh and Sean Bean. It was actually really good imo. I am surprised that this has never been put out on Blu-ray. It's not even available in Apple or Vudu, much less even in HD. I wonder why. It's a shame this never came out on Blu-ray, good film.

Please let me know if anyone knows where I can acquire this film on Blu-ray or even an HD digital copy.

According to JustWatch.com you can see Far North in high definition on Freevee, but that means watching with ads.

It's not what you asked for, but it seems to be the only way to watch this movie in HD at present.

https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/far-north

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

According to JustWatch.com you can see Far North in high definition on Freevee, but that means watching with ads.

It's not what you asked for, but it seems to be the only way to watch this movie in HD at present.

Freevee is an Ad Movie Service on Amazon Prime, and if you go to that Movie Far North it's only available in SD with Ads!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

What are you talking about, if the Movie is only available DVD SD, then the Streaming File will only be SD. I have always said the Streaming Files are the same as the Disc Files!

SD streaming is often far weaker than DVD. The streamers really struggle with SD.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

SD streaming is often far weaker than DVD. The streamers really struggle with SD.

Struggle to compress the file itself to almost no data

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by alchav21

What are you talking about, if the Movie is only available DVD SD, then the Streaming File will only be SD. I have always said the Streaming Files are the same as the Disc Files!

As usual, you’re wrong,

[Ender14]

Thanks to the OrbitDVD Indicator sale I was able to pick this up for $49.99:



Now I just need Vol. 6 of the Columbia Noir to complete my Indicator Noir sets.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

What are you talking about, if the Movie is only available DVD SD, then the Streaming File will only be SD. I have always said the Streaming Files are the same as the Disc Files!

For the newer members here and lurkers, there has been graphs, tables of test data, links and explanations of how streaming differ from disc in this very thread yet this poster continues to make stupid post like this.

An example, Dune Pt. 1, from Amazon Prime video bit rate is 15 Mbps, iTunes video bit rate is 14 Mbps, Movies Anywhere video bit rate is 25 Mbps and from Fandango video bit rate is 10 Mbps. From the UHD Blu-ray the average video bit rate is ≈ 60 Mbps. Keep in mind streaming is CBR while disc is VBR. Depending on the action of the video the UHD Blu-ray video bit rate may well hit > 100 Mbps and at other times it could be < 25 Mbps. This is just one example of the differences between streaming and disc, there is several more.

[alchav21]

All I'm saying is that Streaming Quality has been improving, and basically the same File used for Disc is used for Streaming with adjustments.

Do Streaming Providers adjust Bitrate:

"Yes, streaming providers often use a technique called Adaptive Bitrate Streaming (ABR) to adjust the bitrate according to the end user’s limitations."

If you have the proper Network like Fiber, Theoretically the Streaming Bitrate can be as good as Disc.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=do+str...c0ed02&pc=U531

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All I'm saying is that Streaming Quality has been improving, and basically the same File used for Disc is used for Streaming with adjustments.

Do Streaming Providers adjust Bitrate:

"Yes, streaming providers often use a technique called Adaptive Bitrate Streaming (ABR) to adjust the bitrate according to the end user’s limitations."

If you have the proper Network like Fiber, Theoretically the Streaming Bitrate can be as good as Disc.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=do+str...c0ed02&pc=U531

No. Wrong as always.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All I'm saying is that Streaming Quality has been improving, and basically the same File used for Disc is used for Streaming with adjustments.

Do Streaming Providers adjust Bitrate:

"Yes, streaming providers often use a technique called Adaptive Bitrate Streaming (ABR) to adjust the bitrate according to the end user’s limitations."

If you have the proper Network like Fiber, Theoretically the Streaming Bitrate can be as good as Disc.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=do+str...c0ed02&pc=U531

Yes and no, in my experience. There were some Blu-ray vs streaming comparisons done over at AVSForums a few years back and in quite a few examples, the colors were different than the Blu-ray, sometimes drastically. I'm not sure how they're compressing these files, but I've seen people compress video with x264 through Handbrake on the default settings come out looking better with less bitrate.

I've noticed with Vudu, it's entirely dependent upon the age of the movie and the master. Harry Potter in HDX on Vudu looks terrible on my Samsung 65" TU7000. I think I watched Order of the Phoenix and was comparing with the Blu-ray for demoing my audio system. Vudu HDX is full of banding and artifacts. The same exact movie on Apple I noticed none of that. So I am wondering if Vudu is using a different master between HDX and UHD whereas Apple is just downconverting UHD. Or is Vudu's master just such low bitrate that it shows off these artifacts? Or are they compressing things differently?

Has it gotten better over the years? Sure. But I still find disc looks better, and I'm one who enjoys both. I use Apple/Vudu a lot when I have to travel for work. Can't beat the convenience.

I'm on a 300up/300 down fiber connection, but I am streaming through Apple and Vudu over wireless in my house, not on a hardwired connection. So can't say whether or not that would make any difference.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All I'm saying is that Streaming Quality has been improving, and basically the same File used for Disc is used for Streaming with adjustments.

Do Streaming Providers adjust Bitrate:

"Yes, streaming providers often use a technique called Adaptive Bitrate Streaming (ABR) to adjust the bitrate according to the end user’s limitations."

If you have the proper Network like Fiber, Theoretically the Streaming Bitrate can be as good as Disc.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=do+str...c0ed02&pc=U531

The maximum bitrate is drastically lower than disc. This is a cost-cutting measure, not a technological limitation. Streaming at Blu-ray or Ultra HD Blu-ray bitrates would quickly bankrupt any streaming subscription service.

Adaptive Bitrate Streaming simply allows people with slow connections to use an even lower bitrate. It can't improve upon the low maximum bitrates provided by the streaming services.

[bhampton]

Streaming isn't what you want it to be it is what it is. It hasn't been improving but some people have better service at home.

Some episodes of the Simpson's are only available to those who bought them on DVD and as more time goes by things online will only be what is profitable and acceptable to host online.

Expect the whole concept to become less interesting to the end user as they look for a way to make it profitable. This is most evident with ads and pressure to move to ad supported plans. Some of us remember the radio and broadcast TV and this is what streaming will become. Good content presented in the worst way.

I'm interested in the material so I don't mind buying it while I still can. The best ever home video format could become the cash cow that VHS and DVD used to be ... it's up to the people who buy or pass on it.


-Brian

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Streaming isn't what you want it to be it is what it is. It hasn't been improving but some people have better service at home.

Some episodes of the Simpson's are only available to those who bought them on DVD and as more time goes by things online will only be what is profitable and acceptable to host online.

Expect the whole concept to become less interesting to the end user as they look for a way to make it profitable. This is most evident with ads and pressure to move to ad supported plans. Some of us remember the radio and broadcast TV and this is what streaming will become. Good content presented in the worst way.

I'm interested in the material so I don't mind buying it while I still can. The best ever home video format could become the cash cow that VHS and DVD used to be ... it's up to the people who buy or pass on it.


-Brian

That's what I worry about too. I expect there are a number of titles that rarely, if ever, get streamed. A smaller company like Vudu could go in and delete those if they are not generating income. Plus with everything going "green," pressure could come down to reduce data center energy usage.

I think the reverse will happen though. I think at some point, 99% of content will be streamed. It is a win-win for studios who want to claw back control over content and put an end to piracy. Monopolization of content will, in their opinion, force streaming to be profitable.

[Wendell R. Breland]

As said many times here streaming is for the masses, as such the quality will only be high enough to meet what the masses will accept. Netflix average is now down to ≤ 3 Mbps as seen here.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

I couldn't find anything in HT chairs that were comfortable... so I replaced my front row with adjustable beds...

It looks like hell.. but when the lights go down in my pitch black cave... IT'S AWESOME!!

sounds cool

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I think at some point, 99% of content will be streamed. It is a win-win for studios who want to claw back control over content and put an end to piracy.

Internet distribution of movies and TV shows makes piracy easier, not harder.

Piracy Is Back: Piracy Statistics for 2024

Movie Piracy Rates: A Huge Comeback in the Streaming Age:

"The global movie industry’s revenue losses from digital piracy are between $40 and $97.1 billion per year."

"Illegal downloading of copyrighted materials takes up 24% of the global bandwidth."

"Pirated video material gets over 230 billion views a year."

"The United States took the win with nearly 28 billion pirate downloads, followed by India and Brazil."

"126.7 billion episodes worth of US-produced TV series are illegally downloaded or streamed every year."

"More than any other generation, millennials are normalizing piracy."

"More than 80% of global online piracy can be attributed to illegal streaming services."

https://dataprot.net/statistics/piracy-statistics/

[bhampton]

That's good because maybe it will drive the industry back to Physical distribution.

I know that Vinyl is fun because you can be fairly sure it's legit and it's fun to support things you love.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All I'm saying is that Streaming Quality has been improving, and basically the same File used for Disc is used for Streaming with adjustments.

aren't you the one that for the past 15 years have been saying it is all "fabulious" and "it is all the same" how can it be improving?

Do Streaming Providers adjust Bitrate:

"Yes, streaming providers often use a technique called Adaptive Bitrate Streaming (ABR) to adjust the bitrate according to the end user’s limitations."

If you have the proper Network like Fiber, Theoretically the Streaming Bitrate can be as good as Disc.

and thoreticaly I can be named king of the world and be a trillionaire. There is a world of difference between theory and reality.

If Joe has a 60Mbps connection and a fictional provider offers 60Mbps, if his wife decides to then watch something else at the same time they both need 30 Mbps and a 30Mbps version on the server and if their daughter something else now it drops to 20Mbps each and if their son his own thing it becomes 15Mbps each... and 60+30+20+15=125 (so if they want to offer only one better quality that rivals UHD BD their storage costs will double

Now you have a 100Mbps connection but if the best they offer is 60Mbps that 40 more brings you nothing and if someone else in your home wants to watch something else then that becomes 50/50 if all they offer is 60,30,20,15 you both fall to 30 (technically one could do 60 and the other 30 but there is no setting to prioritize one over the other they will both try 60 , BW is not enough and fall back to 30). So it would be nice to also offer 50 so you two can use the BW available to the max. But you also show us your stats and even though they say 100 it is actual closer to 90 so a 45 would be better.

That is why they offer adaptive and why adaptive means there is 1-5Mbps granularity between them but it also means that adding a new tear is very costly to them.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Expect the whole concept to become less interesting to the end user as they look for a way to make it profitable. This is most evident with ads and pressure to move to ad supported plans. Some of us remember the radio and broadcast TV and this is what streaming will become. Good content presented in the worst way.

yup. When talking presentation quality it is not realy getting better but when you look at it as a whole (more restrictions, getting rid of lower add free tears to force people to pay more or go with adds, constant price increase).

"Getting better" can only be said with a lot of irony.