The Terminator (1984)

[insomniac013]

I find it bizarre that we're only about a month away from release and there's still no official specs.

[Lantz]

Originally Posted by insomniac013

I find it bizarre that we're only about a month away from release and there's still no official specs.

Agree.

The release has been postponed a number of times too, leading you to guess that they really try to get things right this time, and not releasing a rushed product. Here's hoping. :P

[GavSalkeld]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

In the case of Jaws, they did not use the original foley effects in the new 7.1 mix. Some stuff sounds better but most of it is the same as the 5.1 DVD mix.

Really? High Def Digest says they did reuse/remix the original mono elements? If they didnt, this is another boycott for me, I hated the Jaws 5.1 mix. The new dubs stuck out so much.

The original sound effects only exist as part of the full mono track itself, and it isn't possible to isolate the effects from the mono track and move them about the sound space.

I believe this is not the case, a company has the ability to do this now (Hans Zimmer used it on Inception, I forget their name). But it can isolate elements from a mono mix cleanly -- music, voices, SFX -- without a loss in quality. Clever stuff.

Well they've lost a sale from me if they leave the mono off every version that includes this new transfer. No amount of pretty picture will get me to sit through guns having a "silencer" effect when they have no silencer attached, and Arnie's shotgun making a machine gun noise, and his machine gun making a shotgun noise. They old 5.1 remix is abysmal. I'll stick happily with the old US DVD release.

Totally agree.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by GavSalkeld

Really? High Def Digest says they did reuse/remix the original mono elements? If they didnt, this is another boycott for me, I hated the Jaws 5.1 mix. The new dubs stuck out so much.

I'm still awaiting my US Jaws Blu to arrive but from what I've read in the US thread the 7.1 still has most of the mistakes from the 5.1. Gunshots are redone, the word "*****" is obscured by the new explosion effect during the finale, the shark crashing through the boat window as it's sinking is completely toned down, among others.

Originally Posted by GavSalkeld

I believe this is not the case, a company has the ability to do this now (Hans Zimmer used it on Inception, I forget their name). But it can isolate elements from a mono mix cleanly -- music, voices, SFX -- without a loss in quality. Clever stuff.

Very interesting.

[GavSalkeld]

I think the Jaws BD, at least in the US, contains the original 2.0 mono as well, thankfully. Its not lossless but given the slightly limited frequency response of older films compared to today, I dont think it matters too much.

[nagysaudio]

Is the Canadian release (The Terminator Blu-Ray) still September 11th, 2012, or is it going to be delayed until October?

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

I'm still awaiting my US Jaws Blu to arrive but from what I've read in the US thread the 7.1 still has most of the mistakes from the 5.1. Gunshots are redone, the word "*****" is obscured by the new explosion effect during the finale, the shark crashing through the boat window as it's sinking is completely toned down, among others.

I switched between the mono and 7.1 track on Jaws during the 'Smile you son of a *****' sequence and on both it sounded just as muffled on the word ***** and while some of the effects are still replacements others have been put back to normal including the whale call and oxygen tank explosion.

[nagysaudio]

Let's not make false comparisons here. The Jaws 7.1 mix is state of the art and was personally supervised every step of the way by Steven Spielberg, 100%. Spielberg also promised to include the original mono track and he delivered the goods. The mono and the 7.1 lossless mix both sound fantastic.

There are no problems with the Jaws soundtrack whatsoever. A perfect 10/10 release and a perfect example of how it should be properly done.

The Terminator doesn't have the original mono recording in any form whatsoever. The new mix has been botched COMPLETELY. It was not approved, nor signed off by Cameron (only the outdated master was). As a matter of fact, Cameron fought to have the original mono included on the DVD, unfortunately it's so compressed there that it's completely useless.

Half of the sound effects in the 5.1 mix have been stolen from Terminator 2. The lazy corporate interns who did the re-mix were too lazy to include hundreds of instances of foley and score effects that were overdubbed and layered in the soundtrack.

It's a complete disgrace.

[GavSalkeld]

That's fine that Spielberg approved the mix. I just have no interest in it, because its not the mix I know and love.

As for the mono on T1 being "so compressed", what do you mean by that? A 1.0 Dolby Digital file needs a minimum of 96kbps for full 20/20 bandwidth audio @ 48khz, a 2.0 file needs a minimum of 192kbps. The more channels you add, the higher the bitrate.

Besides, given the age of the film, the audio probably doesn't go all the way up to 20khz. I know some of the Bond movies on the UE DVDs only go to about 12khz.

[nagysaudio]

So if you have no interest in Spielberg's 7.1 mix, Spielberg has given you the original mono track. Which sounds fabulous BTW. So there's virtually zero problems there, right?

The Terminator's original mono track on the DVD disc has no dynamic range whatsoever. It sounds like a tin can. I have the LPCM track from the laserdisc and it's literally AMAZING! What's on the DVD is only, but a shadow of it.

[GavSalkeld]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

So if you have no interest in Spielberg's 7.1 mix, Spielberg has given you the original mono track. Which sounds fabulous BTW. So there's virtually zero problems there, right?

Precisely. I was not complaining about it at all; all I ever said was I prefer the original mix

The Terminator's original mono track on the DVD disc has no dynamic range whatsoever. It sounds like a tin can. I have the LPCM track from the laserdisc and it's literally AMAZING! What's on the DVD is only, but a shadow of it.

I see, so you mean compressed as in limited, not compressed as in lossy. I get ya.

Did anyone compare the 2.1 mono on the original letterboxed T1 DVD with the mono on the SE? (DVDBeaver says the video quality on the original is better than the SE, which is interesting).

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jones

I switched between the mono and 7.1 track on Jaws during the 'Smile you son of a *****' sequence and on both it sounded just as muffled on the word ***** and while some of the effects are still replacements others have been put back to normal including the whale call and oxygen tank explosion.

As I said I don't have the Blu myself yet but the "*****" on the DVD mono was clear as day:

Brody V.S. Jaws - YouTube

That's the only vid on youtube I can find of the original mono, the quality is terrible unfortunately. Here's the remix:

Jaws - Ending Scene (HQ) - YouTube

Note the different gun sounds, and the complete absence of the word *****. It's not muffled, it's gone. How different is it on the Blu?

In regards to the whale call, I heard that the original whale sound effect was back but are they actually cued like they used to be? As in, only occurring when Quint stops singing, as if him and the whale are singing a duet?

[nagysaudio]

Both DVDs sound like a tin can.

You're a fan of Jaws' mono track on Blu-Ray. Do you hear how powerful and bombastic it is? That's what the LPCM mono track of The Terminator on laserdisc sounds like. It's awesome!

The DVD is atrocious. The Blu-Ray doesn't even have the original track, so it's 100% worthless to me.

I actually went through the trouble and re-authored the Blu-Ray disc using the LPCM track from the laserdisc. It was a total PITA. More than two dozen instances in the soundtrack/video were out of sync.

I've used Sony's Vegas Pro 10 to do the job. The sound is now amazing and more in sync than it was originally on the LD, DVD, or Blu-Ray.

The only problem is that the MPEG-2 video is lossy, so it took a minor hit in quality when the audio and video were remuxed.

But it's better than nothing.

[nagysaudio]

Regarding Jaws: The word ***** in the 7.1 mix is present and sounds almost identical to how it did in the mono track. On my Blu-Ray I've switched back and forth many times and it's very close. Maybe slightly less audible, but we're talking about minute differences here. The 7.1 mix is different, so the levels are slightly different to begin with. But it's 100% there in the new 7.1 mix.

[vidjunkie]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Both DVDs sound like a tin can.

You're a fan of Jaws' mono track on Blu-Ray. Do you hear how powerful and bombastic it is? That's what the LPCM mono track of The Terminator on laserdisc sounds like. It's awesome!

The DVD is atrocious. The Blu-Ray doesn't even have the original track, so it's 100% worthless to me.

I actually went through the trouble and re-authored the Blu-Ray disc using the LPCM track from the laserdisc. It was a total PITA. More than two dozen instances in the soundtrack/video were out of sync.

I've used Sony's Vegas Pro 10 to do the job. The sound is now amazing and more in sync than it was originally on the LD, DVD, or Blu-Ray.

The only problem is that the MPEG-2 video is lossy, so it took a minor hit in quality when the audio and video were remuxed.

But it's better than nothing.

So you did a synch job on this as well?

[nagysaudio]

Yes sir! A 100% perfect sync job, nearly frame by frame for the entire movie. The soundtrack is 100% lossless from the laserdisc's LPCM track. All of the edits that were made are seamless (most of them had to be made in the video as the Blu-Ray had extra frames in MANY places). There was only one place where the audio had to be cut and that was during the side change of the LD.

Unfortunately, the final disc has no menu, no alternate tracks, no chapter marks, etc.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by GavSalkeld

Did anyone compare the 2.1 mono on the original letterboxed T1 DVD with the mono on the SE? (DVDBeaver says the video quality on the original is better than the SE, which is interesting).

I would also like to know this. Strangely, DVDBeaver also says the mono on the SE dvd is "PCM"?

[kdo]

Originally Posted by supersonic395

But yeah, this isn't the place for Aliens.

Quite right, I was simply responding to the comments from those saying they hope "The Terminator" looks as good as "Aliens" did, which I'd certainly hope it doesn't...but then again, I'm not going to buy the disc anyway, so to me it's really not that big of a deal what was done with it...It just bothers me to see these nonstop double-dips on titles that should've been released properly the first time around...

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Yes sir! A 100% perfect sync job, nearly frame by frame for the entire movie. The soundtrack is 100% lossless from the laserdisc's LPCM track. All of the edits that were made are seamless (most of them had to be made in the video as the Blu-Ray had extra frames in MANY places). There was only one place where the audio had to be cut and that was during the side change of the LD.

Unfortunately, the final disc has no menu, no alternate tracks, no chapter marks, etc.

Really wish I had the time and patience, and more importantly equipment and know how to do something like this. Don't suppose you have a spare lying around?

[supersonic395]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Yes sir! A 100% perfect sync job, nearly frame by frame for the entire movie. The soundtrack is 100% lossless from the laserdisc's LPCM track. All of the edits that were made are seamless (most of them had to be made in the video as the Blu-Ray had extra frames in MANY places). There was only one place where the audio had to be cut and that was during the side change of the LD.

Unfortunately, the final disc has no menu, no alternate tracks, no chapter marks, etc.

Hang on. If you acquired the LD pcm mono as the same one that can be found elsewhere, that was made to sync at 23.976fps with the us blu-ray.

But you said you removed frames from the Blu-ray video...mate that sounds worse that watching it with the new 5.1 mix.