The Terminator (1984)

[chip75]

I think this thread has jumped the Shark straight into the MGM's lions gob....

[The Apocalypse]

Echo others statements calling for specs. Depending on what they are, I may or may not cancel my order.

[felixthecat]

The people asking about the Original mono mix im guessing its BIG NO i read here in there forums under the German forums of the same movie that some started a on line pettion and they send it o the studio to get the mono mix put back in to the movie and u never guess it worked if Germany can do SO CAN WE i cant reamber the forum link page but if u have a look all the info is there.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Usually what happens is because the foley track is just studio stock effects it is often not preserved, and the reason they go and make new effects for a remix is because the original foley track no longer exists. The original sound effects only exist as part of the full mono track itself, and it isn't possible to isolate the effects from the mono track and move them about the sound space.

Funny thing is, there are still some original effects in the 5.1. Some are present in their entirety and others are edited down or mixed with other effects, like the police car that speeds by just before Reese appears, which has had a totally superfluous helicopter sound effect added to the tail end of the shot.

These originals are actually panned around the sound stage too, like when the Terminator pushes open Sarah Connor #1's door and the door effect is moved from centre to front right, and there's the aforementioned police car which zooms from the front into the right rear.

When listening to the 5.1 track again yesterday, one aspect above all else reminded me of why I hate it so much: it's just so lifeless. Yeah, the music's now in stereo and there are plenty of occasions where the rears are called into action, but it all sounds so hollow. I wince every time Reese slams into the ground after his time trip because of the crunching effects in the mono mix, yet the 5.1 didn't raise so much as an eyebrow because the effect is now so flat and dull. And the time displacement scenes now sound like a piddly discharge of static rather than the intense mini-lightning storms that they are, and the Tech Noir and police station shoot-outs are similarly sub-par.

There's something so lusty about those old-skool gunshot effects, they're big and bolshy and larger than life, which are a perfect fit for Cameron's techsploitation classic. Changing them for something more "real" misses the point entirely. Let's not forget that the shotgun effects for T2 had things like cannons (yes, actual cannons) mixed into them, so anyone who would like to defend Terminator's uninvolving 5.1 remix as being deliberately more "realistic" can get off the ride right now, because neither you nor the mixers have any idea of what you speak of.

[Lantz]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Funny thing is, there are still some original effects in the 5.1. Some are present in their entirety and others are edited down or mixed with other effects, like the police car that speeds by just before Reese appears, which has had a totally superfluous helicopter sound effect added to the tail end of the shot.

These originals are actually panned around the sound stage too, like when the Terminator pushes open Sarah Connor #1's door and the door effect is moved from centre to front right, and there's the aforementioned police car which zooms from the front into the right rear.

When listening to the 5.1 track again yesterday, one aspect above all else reminded me of why I hate it so much: it's just so lifeless. Yeah, the music's now in stereo and there are plenty of occasions where the rears are called into action, but it all sounds so hollow. I wince every time Reese slams into the ground after his time trip because of the crunching effects in the mono mix, yet the 5.1 didn't raise so much as an eyebrow because the effect is now so flat and dull. And the time displacement scenes now sound like a piddly discharge of static rather than the intense mini-lightning storms that they are, and the Tech Noir and police station shoot-outs are similarly sub-par.

There's something so lusty about those old-skool gunshot effects, they're big and bolshy and larger than life, which are a perfect fit for Cameron's techsploitation classic. Changing them for something more "real" misses the point entirely. Let's not forget that the shotgun effects for T2 had things like cannons (yes, actual cannons) mixed into them, so anyone who would like to defend Terminator's uninvolving 5.1 remix as being deliberately more "realistic" can get off the ride right now, because neither you nor the mixers have any idea of what you speak of.

I believe one may appreciate the 5.1 mix better if one has not heard the original mono, or cannot remember it.

[GavSalkeld]

Originally Posted by Lantz

I believe one may appreciate the 5.1 mix better if one has not heard the original mono, or cannot remember it.

This does not matter. What matters is the original sound on the film is not there anymore. That lack of choice is unacceptable.

Even if you have not heard the mono, the soundtrack on the film sounds odd. You can hear the new, modern, crisp, clear added sound effects over the more lo-fi original sound. The same thing is apparently on the James Bond UE DVDs, the new sounds stick out and do not match the other sounds in the mix.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There's something so lusty about those old-skool gunshot effects, they're big and bolshy and larger than life, which are a perfect fit for Cameron's techsploitation classic.

You can imagine the crew going out to the desert with a load of ammo and shooting the shit out of things for an afternoon to get the right effects. The new stuff sounds right off the production line and doesn't seem organic at all. The title music sounds a bit pathetic now....

[Lantz]

Originally Posted by GavSalkeld

This does not matter. What matters is the original sound on the film is not there anymore. That lack of choice is unacceptable.

Even if you have not heard the mono, the soundtrack on the film sounds odd. You can hear the new, modern, crisp, clear added sound effects over the more lo-fi original sound. The same thing is apparently on the James Bond UE DVDs, the new sounds stick out and do not match the other sounds in the mix.

Yes, there should definitely be a choice. But we do not know for sure yet if it is going to be there or not.

But I know exactly what you mean. I remember a number of films, including the Bonds, where old audio is mixed with new audio in one and the same mix. It can definitely sound a bit strange.

All I meant was that if you have nothing at all to compare with, it is not everyone who registers that something is wrong, but rather believes that there is a lot of intention behind a mix, and that it is supposed to sound that way.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by GavSalkeld

The same thing is apparently on the James Bond UE DVDs, the new sounds stick out and do not match the other sounds in the mix.

It's going to cost an extra arm or leg to import the US Bond 50 set next month as no doubt the mono tracks will be nixed for the UK set release.

[Prim]

Originally Posted by felixthecat

The people asking about the Original mono mix im guessing its BIG NO i read here in there forums under the German forums of the same movie that some started a on line pettion and they send it o the studio to get the mono mix put back in to the movie and u never guess it worked if Germany can do SO CAN WE i cant reamber the forum link page but if u have a look all the info is there.

Ehh...Are you saying that Germany gets the mono track, or have I misunderstood?

[nagysaudio]

Of course the mixers didn't know what they were doing. They were about to go to college and interned for the Summer at the studio.

Not one person from The Terminator crew was involved with this atrocity.

A monkey could click around Final Cut and paste a bunch of sound effects from the library and do a better job.

[GavSalkeld]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

It's going to cost an extra arm or leg to import the US Bond 50 set next month as no doubt the mono tracks will be nixed for the UK set release.

Very likely. Previous US BD releases of the films contained the original mono/stereo tracks as well as the 5.1, so no doubt they will be present on the new set too.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by GavSalkeld

This does not matter. What matters is the original sound on the film is not there anymore. That lack of choice is unacceptable.

Even if you have not heard the mono, the soundtrack on the film sounds odd. You can hear the new, modern, crisp, clear added sound effects over the more lo-fi original sound. The same thing is apparently on the James Bond UE DVDs, the new sounds stick out and do not match the other sounds in the mix.

This.

Originally Posted by chip75

You can imagine the crew going out to the desert with a load of ammo and shooting the shit out of things for an afternoon to get the right effects. The new stuff sounds right off the production line and doesn't seem organic at all. The title music sounds a bit pathetic now....

Oh, and this too.

You guys have hit the nail on the head. The 5.1 is very uneven as regards that balance of old and new, and it deflates any sense of atmosphere that the track may have possessed. The new effects are so sharp and clinical that they stick out like a sore thumb, and when they're clearly just repeating a stock effect - like Terminator's Uzi in Tech Noir - it sounds very lazy.

Sure, the old ones were stock effects too but they had snap, they had punch, they had impact - and even that shot where Reese racks his shotgun in glorious close-up doesn't carry the raw immediacy of the mono mix.

[The Apocalypse]

All this is starting to make me think about cancelling my order....

[nagysaudio]

I've cancelled!!! I will teach this fraud with my wallet. I'm now waiting to hear anything about the Canadian release.

[kristoffer]

If none of the new BDs has the mono track I am getting the R1 dvd! I want the original audio!

[The Apocalypse]

So, yay or nay to cancel? The only reason I'm hesitant is because it's the SteelBook.

[Ben_UK]

I don't really pine for a mono track as such, I just want the original sound elements from the mono track, remixed if need be.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

I've cancelled!!! I will teach this fraud with my wallet. I'm now waiting to hear anything about the Canadian release.

LOL "fraud"... wrong word choice there... not including the original mono mix is in no way "made for personal gain" or "to damage another individual".

[GavSalkeld]

I dunno, my heart will be pretty damaged if there's no mono, like