Official Film Noir on Blu-ray Thread

[javy]

Originally Posted by Gerby

It's a poor state of affairs when you can't enjoy a film (or admit to it) for the beautiful ladies in fear of upsetting folk.

I understand where you're coming from, but I really don't think it's as bad as all that. I mean, have you seen the celebrity threads on this site, yo? Lol.

To keep this on noir, and the subject of beautiful women, I go gaga over Joan Bennett. I have much compassion for Eddie G because Bennett could talk me into anything as well. There are many lovely ladies in noir, I also like Gloria Grahame, especially Ray's film, In a Lonely Place, but Bennett has this extreme seductive look in her eyes that casts a spell on me.

[The Great Owl]

With regard to Invasion of the Body Snatchers being an example of film noir, I believe that the original 1956 movie qualifies as an outlier in the genre, for reasons that I've mentioned in previous posts.

An overall “This will not end well.” mood? Check.
A bleak conclusion? Check.
A femme fatale? Check.
A supposedly idyllic post-WWII American community with a dark secret? Check.
Stylistic use of light and shadows for effect and for characterization enhancement? Check.
Shady character complexities? Check.
Dark alleyways? Check.
Subversive subject matter (divorce) pertaining to post-WWII America? Check.
Disorienting camera angles? Check.
Fedoras? Check.

The 1978 remake has some neo-noir affinities, but I consider it to be more of a straight up sci-fi horror outing.

[Dave Bannion]

Originally Posted by tallguy58

The book Film Noir: An Encyclopedic Reference to the American Style by Silver and Ward, and to a lesser degree DVD Beaver. Not scientific but analyzed by people with a lot more film knowledge than me. Neither one of those references Invasion of the Body Snatchers as a noir.
It's a horror film. Always has been, always will be.

I was under the impression the most recent edition of the Silver/Ward book includes INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS.

EDIT: According to one of the Amazon reviewers, the book's fourth edition includes sci-fi titles like THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, INVADERS FROM MARS, THEM! and INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS.

Not that anyone asked, but I'd say a strong noir case could be made for BODY SNATCHERS and THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by javy

I understand where you're coming from, but I really don't think it's as bad as all that. I mean, have you seen the celebrity threads on this site, yo? Lol.

To keep this on noir, and the subject of beautiful women, I go gaga over Joan Bennett. I have much compassion for Eddie G because Bennett could talk me into anything as well. There are many lovely ladies in noir, I also like Gloria Grahame, especially Ray's film, In a Lonely Place, but Bennett has this extreme seductive look in her eyes that casts a spell on me.

I've always been drawn to movies because of the women in them.

I used to think of Joan Bennett as the matron on the TV soap opera Dark
Shadows (1966-1970) and in Suspira (1977), but I rediscovered her when her
films for Fritz Lang started to appear on DVD. She was a revelation in The
Woman In the Window. I also saw her in Moby Dick, the 1930 version, when
it aired on TCM.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

With regard to Invasion of the Body Snatchers being an example of film noir, I believe that the original 1956 movie qualifies as an outlier in the genre, for reasons that I've mentioned in previous posts.

An overall “This will not end well.” mood? Check.
A bleak conclusion? Check.
A femme fatale? Check.
A supposedly idyllic post-WWII American community with a dark secret? Check.
Stylistic use of light and shadows for effect and for characterization enhancement? Check.
Shady character complexities? Check.
Dark alleyways? Check.
Subversive subject matter (divorce) pertaining to post-WWII America? Check.
Disorienting camera angles? Check.
Fedoras? Check.

The 1978 remake has some neo-noir affinities, but I consider it to be more of a straight up sci-fi horror outing.

Abel Ferrara's Body Snatchers (1993) checks off all the same points on your
list, except for the fedoras. The action is confined to a military base, which
actually helps. Forest Whitaker's "shady character complexities" in his first
scenes are unsettling until the story gradually begins to justify them, but by
then it's too late. Based on these terms Ferrara's addition to the lore is as
much a neo-noir as it is sci-fi.

[mogwai_macabre]

Here's a 40 minute podcast episode making the case for Invasion of the Body Snatchers as a film noir. The guy who runs the podcast was the teacher for the TCM film noir online course a few years back.

http://outofthepast.libsyn.com/2011_10_15_iotbs

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by mogwai_macabre

Here's a 40 minute podcast episode making the case for Invasion of the Body Snatchers as a film noir. The guy who runs the podcast was the teacher for the TCM film noir online course a few years back.

http://outofthepast.libsyn.com/2011_10_15_iotbs

Wonderful!
Thank you.

[Richard--W]

Last night we enjoyed Roy Ward Baker's Don't Bother to Knock (1952). I'd forgotten the story in this film noir takes place in real time, roughly. So did The Set-Up (1947) take place in real time.

Doesn't Henry Hathaway's 14 Hours (1951) take place in real time, aside from flashbacks?

There must be other noir films in which the story unfolds in actual running time but I can't think of them at the moment. Any suggestions?

[tomkatholic]

Detective Story, Jeopardy, Suddenly. I think maybe the Tall Target and the Devil Thumbs a Ride come close too, but can't remember for sure

[SeanJoyce]

Originally Posted by richard--w

abel ferrara's body snatchers (1993) checks off all the same points on your
list, except for the fedoras. The action is confined to a military base, which
actually helps. Forest whitaker's "shady character complexities" in his first
scenes are unsettling until the story gradually begins to justify them, but by
then it's too late. Based on these terms ferrara's addition to the lore is as
much a neo-noir as it is sci-fi.

lol

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by tomkatholic

Detective Story, Jeopardy, Suddenly. I think maybe the Tall Target and the Devil Thumbs a Ride come close too, but can't remember for sure

Thanks.

It occurred to me to check imdb under The Set-Up. Here's the imdb list of films in real time:

https://www.imdb.com/search/keyword?keywords=real-time

Some film noir titles in there but Don't Bother to Knock isn't one of them.

[Modman]

February UK/US Arrow Academy titles, both directed by Joseph H.Lewis:

So Dark The Night

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07KBTBH...dark+the+night

My Name is Julia Ross

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07KBSX9...+is+julia+ross

[The Great Owl]

Noirvember continues with another outlier in the genre (before I edge into the the more traditional noir titles)...



In a New England town during the early 1900s, a serial killer is targeting women who have various disabilities. After news of the latest murder shocks the community, Helen, a young mute woman played by Dorothy McGuire (Old Yeller, Swiss Family Robinson), returns during a thunderstorm, unaware that she is being watched by a mysterious cloaked figure, to a large mansion in the countryside, where she is employed as a maid and companion for Mrs. Warren, a bedridden family matriarch played by Ethel Barrymore (The Paradine Case). Meanwhile, animosity is erupting inside the mansion as Mrs. Warren's stepson, a professor played by George Brent (Dark Victory), and his half-brother, played by Gordon Oliver (The Marines Are Here), clash over a mutual love interest, played by Rhonda Fleming (Out of the Past, Inferno).

Mrs. Warren senses that danger lies in Helen's future, and tries to convince her to leave town with a new local doctor, played by Kent Smith (Cat People), but, unbeknownst to all, the threat is already present inside the house. That night, on the shadowy winding staircase that descends to the basement of the mansion, Helen comes face to face with the murderer.

The 1946 noir-edged thriller, The Spiral Staircase, which was directed by Robert Siodmak (The Killers, Criss Cross) and brought to the screen with vivid immediacy by cinematographer Nicholas Musuraca (Out of the Past, Clash by Night), is a riveting and fast-paced motion picture with images that paved the way for subsequent classics like Psycho (1960) or Frenzy (1972). The Gothic mansion, where the bulk of the narrative takes place, is a character in its own right and it provides a myriad of wondrously dark corners where deadly secrets may be hiding.

I was first acquainted with The Spiral Staircase by way of the 1975 remake, starring the likes of Jacqueline Bisset, Christopher Plummer, and Gayle Hunnicutt, which I saw on HBO during my childhood. While my 10 year-old self was awestruck and captivated by that remake, I find the original to be even more immersive and menacing, mostly thanks to the direction of Siodmak, who goes down in history as one of the premiere figures of classic-era film noir. Even today, this black-and-white mystery masterpiece shines with a visual splendor that graces every still frame.

Be on the lookout for Elsa Lanchester, who is best known as the title character in The Bride of Frankenstein, as a housekeeper who provides comic relief.

This Kino Lorber Blu-ray brings The Spiral Staircase to us by way of a wonderfully filmic 4K remaster and an audio presentation that brings the Roy Webb score to the forefront. Film noir historian Imogen Sara Smith always delivers informative and engaging commentaries, and the track on this disc is no exception. The audio-only radio presentation supplement does not fare nearly as well as the movie, but it's a cool curiosity relic.

[MalteseCrow]

I usually prefer to avoid wading into controversy on these boards, but I'm going to make an exception in this case.

The whole point of a thread on film (noir or otherwise) is to provoke conversation, share recommendations and information of new releases, and generally foster a supportive environment for people to gather and discuss something they love. I don't know about you guys and gals, but I don't know too many people in my offline life with whom I can discuss movies that were released before my parents were born.

Snark and snobbery have no place here. Picking on people for providing their opinions and sharing their enthusiasm has no place here.

Whether or not Invasion of the Body Snatchers is a definitive noir matters far less to me than the fact that there was just a terrific dialogue on these boards between The Great Owl and Richard--W analyzing its influences and place within the larger noir canon.

(And seriously, folks, stop pretending like noir exists in some kind of vacuum. Films from all kinds of genres both before and after the classic period of the 40s and 50s were either influential to noir or influenced by noir. We ought to be able to talk about those influences without a spoilsport yelling at us to get off his lawn.)

Thanks to these boards, I've been exposed to some of my new favorite films and I'm excited to see dozens more that I never would have known about otherwise. I don't want to see contributors cowed into silence because they're afraid they'll get yelled at or belittled for daring to share an opinion that doesn't align with somebody else's supposedly superior encyclopedic knowledge. It does this board no good at all to remain empty of the kind of insights, recommendations, and news that would enrich my own and others' appreciation for this wonderful genre.

[senseabove]

Originally Posted by MalteseCrow

I usually prefer to avoid wading into controversy on these boards, but I'm going to make an exception in this case.

The whole point of a thread on film (noir or otherwise) is to provoke conversation, share recommendations and information of new releases, and generally foster a supportive environment for people to gather and discuss something they love. I don't know about you guys and gals, but I don't know too many people in my offline life with whom I can discuss movies that were released before my parents were born.

Snark and snobbery have no place here. Picking on people for providing their opinions and sharing their enthusiasm has no place here.

Whether or not Invasion of the Body Snatchers is a definitive noir matters far less to me than the fact that there was just a terrific dialogue on these boards between The Great Owl and Richard--W analyzing its influences and place within the larger noir canon.

(And seriously, folks, stop pretending like noir exists in some kind of vacuum. Films from all kinds of genres both before and after the classic period of the 40s and 50s were either influential to noir or influenced by noir. We ought to be able to talk about those influences without a spoilsport yelling at us to get off his lawn.)

Thanks to these boards, I've been exposed to some of my new favorite films and I'm excited to see dozens more that I never would have known about otherwise. I don't want to see contributors cowed into silence because they're afraid they'll get yelled at or belittled for daring to share an opinion that doesn't align with somebody else's supposedly superior encyclopedic knowledge. It does this board no good at all to remain empty of the kind of insights, recommendations, and news that would enrich my own and others' appreciation for this wonderful genre.

Posting this in defense of Richard-"Not because I have a difference of opinion, but because I know better."-W is rich.

[MalteseCrow]

Originally Posted by senseabove

Posting this in defense of Richard-"Not because I have a difference of opinion, but because I know better."-W is rich.

The intention of my post wasn't to defend Richard--W. He can fight his own battles and he certainly does (and often to an extreme that I'll admit is exhausting). And yes, in that quoted case, he comes off very poorly and I entirely disagree with him.

My purpose was to point out that singling out ANYone on these boards with eyerolls, lol's, and snarky, sniping comments when all they're doing in that moment is talking about noir influences in films sends a message to everyone else on these boards that if they try to wade into the pool too with their ideas and insights, they're likely to get drowned in withering commentary.

I just don't see the point in holding grudges here. If somebody tends to post things that annoy you, ignore them. Or debate them if you wish, but what's the point of personal attacks? It just seems like there's an immediate slap down by some on these boards to any comment that falls outside the bounds of their limited tolerance.

[deltatauhobbit]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

There must be other noir films in which the story unfolds in actual running time but I can't think of them at the moment. Any suggestions?

There's a film called Nick of Time with Johnny Depp that's in real time. It's not on Blu-ray yet but I feel it qualifies as a neo-noir.

[Hoke Moseley]

Originally Posted by senseabove

Posting this in defense of Richard-"Not because I have a difference of opinion, but because I know better."-W is rich.

MalteseCrow is probably ole' Richie's backup account.

[MalteseCrow]

Originally Posted by Hoke Moseley

MalteseCrow is probably ole' Richie's backup account.

Ha! That would be news to me. And Richard as well, I'm sure.

Is it really so hard to believe that there are some of us here who find the bullying behavior to be pretty childish and counterproductive to the purpose of these boards? But by all means, go on living your delusion if it helps you sleep at night...

...Or you could just look at my post history. Apparently, my evil side (Richard, naturally) agrees with Geoff Oliver that The Postman Always Rings Twice is one of the finest film noirs of all time, while my purer, more discerning side (Malty C), thinks it's lower tier and doesn't live up to the classic novel.

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

Yeah, Postman is one of my favorite movies of all time. I just love everything about it. The outdoor locations, the suggestive atmosphere, the performances, the cinematography... everything. It’s compelling, it’s sexy, and it’s suspenseful, and it has a terrific, memorable story. Lana Turner and John Garfield had amazing chemistry. This is a rare movie that actually gave Lana a role to showcase her dramatic performing abilities, and Garfield was terrific as always (very underrated actor today). I do prefer the first half of the story, but other than that, the movie is damn-near perfect in my eyes. It’s definitely my favorite noir, and I am one of the few that prefers it to Double Indemnity (by quite a large margin too), another noir based on a Cain novel that I enjoy.

Originally Posted by Richard--W

You express my own thoughts about The Postman Always Rings Twice. The
second half would be stronger if it deliberated the novel's legal maneuvers
and counter-maneuvers with precision, and without beating them to death.
Cora and Frank are in love and need each other. As the police play them
against each other, both are surprised at how far they'll go to save their own
skin by incriminating the other. The police see how this tactic injures them,
so they drive the wedge in deeper. The film touches on this, and is okay in
so far as it goes. But it doesn't go the distance that the novel does. If it had,
it would almost be too painful to watch. The sexual attraction and eroticism
in the first half is important because it is denied to them in the second half.

I think there's room for a third adaptation. Only where can you find another
Lana Turner and John Garfield with that chemistry?

Originally Posted by MalteseCrow

I made the fatal mistake of reading Cain's The Postman Always Rings Twice before attempting the film adaptations. For me, the 1946 version just couldn't replicate the intensity, the depravity, or the blistering pessimism of the novel. The film felt watered down and overly glamorized; too much Hollywood and not enough noir.

To be fair, I'm not really a fan of many of the Hammett or Chandler film adaptations either, with the possible exceptions of Murder, My Sweet and the 1975 Farewell, My Lovely. So take my opinions with the appropriate number of salt grains.

By the way, you agreed with me (er... I mean, the Malty part of me) back then, before you fell down a deep dark hole of supporting bullying behavior and peddling conspiracy theories.

Originally Posted by Hoke Moseley

Living up to the book (which is a masterpiece and maybe the best noir novel ever) is kind of impossible. I think it's a good movie on its own, but not a top-tier noir.

[Hoke Moseley]

Thank you for your extensive research.

I have reviewed the evidence and decided that my post in jest above might not be 100% accurate.