Wonder Woman (2017)

[mpstjohn]

Originally Posted by robgmun

You do have to question why WB are struggling so much despite the movies having so much talent behind them. So much so that when WW turned out to be just above average gets praised like it's the next citizen kane of superhero movies. It's frustrating because when every movie so far there are some great moments let down by really awful decisions. Man of Steel comes closest to hitting it out of the park, there very little wrong with it.

BvS - Lex ****ing Luthor, didn't anyone for a moment say, hang on..this character is utterly ridiculous??
SS - Pretty much everything was wrong with this apart of Margot Robbie nailing Harley Quinn and Deadshot being pretty cool
WW - Gal's wooden acting and a few moments of oddness

If I had to blame anything for poor reception or box office performance it would be the rumors flying before the movie comes out. Despite the great cast it loses a lot of people who would go see the movie or taints what they think of it before they see it. I remember arguing with people over BvS not because they had seen it but because they were convinced someone on reddit had spoiled the ending a few weeks prior to release (and that ending wasn't even the one they got). There was the rumors of directors wanting to leave, Wonder Woman being terrible and unsalvageable, Justice League being canceled to make way for The Batman, Ben Affleck quitting on multiple occasions as Batman or being fired, even when I do see rumors like these on Marvel movies fans pay them no mind ("the creative people at Marvel being cut loose from Marvel Studios", "Kevin Feige threatening to leave Marvel Studios over problems with Civil War", "Robert Downey being unhappy with the films", none of these things seemed to affect the box office or fans going into the films)

Addressing the DCEU movies...

Lex is actually one of my favorite parts of BvS, having Superman being a Christ-like figure, we have a man who sees this and growing up resents god because he prayed for his father to stop abusing him and felt unheard to cannot trust a god-like being, he's smart enough to figure out Bruce Wayne is Batman and manipulate him knowing his own past into turning against Superman. While some of this is a little less clear in the theatrical cut, I actually enjoyed the snickering Lex we got. He wasn't physically intimidating but he was a fascinating character the more you understand his way of thinking.

As far as Suicide Squad goes, its probably my least favorite of the DCEU movies but only because it lacks the ambition of the others. I really enjoyed the cast and it felt more like a comic book from the editing than a film which I am okay with considering the number of character the premise had to juggle along with their backstories. I would have liked more Joker but I can understand they probably had to make a choice between making this a Joker dominated movie called Suicide Squad or a movie called Suicide Squad that was largely about that squad with just some Joker. I wouldn't have gone with Enchantress as the villain but I can understand for so many protagonists they needed someone especially powerful and a reason why they'd be involved in the squad (and this still worked better for me than the Riddler did in the animated Suicide Squad movie that came before it).

Wonder Woman...you are literally the first person I heard that called Gal's acting wooden in the movie (a lot of the naysayers who felt she wasn't up for the task of playing Diana seemed to changed their mind with this film). I didn't get a sense of that, least of all by the ending when Steve dies. If I had any complaints here it might be the character design of Ares. If the film is winning phenomenal praise its probably because its good and especially so when you consider people have been trying to make this kind of film for a time and failing. I remember during the Sony email hack an email exchange between the Marvel CEO and the Sony CEO on why Sony should not attempt a Spider Gwen or Black Cat spin-off from The Amazing Spider-man movies because the Marvel CEO didn't believe a female superhero movie could ever be well made or profitable and I spotted an article last night from a few years ago on why Hollywood would never attempt a Wonder Woman movie over reasons like this. If the praise is so high its because people are in shock that this movie was made let alone good. I'm sure some people were saying the same thing about The Avengers back when people though a movie like that couldn't be made, let alone made well.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by mpstjohn

I remember during the Sony email hack an email exchange between the Marvel CEO and the Sony CEO on why Sony should not attempt a Spider Gwen or Black Cat spin-off from The Amazing Spider-man movies because the Marvel CEO didn't believe a female superhero movie could ever be well made or profitable and I spotted an article last night from a few years ago on why Hollywood would never attempt a Wonder Woman movie over reasons like this.

Well you have to take into consideration that Sony is the same company that had been failing to make Spider-Man films that could make the profit they wanted. Look at the Sami Raimi Spider-man 1, and look at how much that made. Take into account inflation, the 3d price increase and the rise of the Chinese box office, and it is hard to not scratch your head at how a modern spider-man makes $200 million + less worldwide. Yes there is more competition, but that really didn't stop batman growing massively over a similar time period.

Also whilst Wonder Woman was a financial success, it is a household name, Captain Marvel because of her name likewise could be a big hit. Black Cat really isn't that well known compared to WW and at a glance seems like a catwoman knock off. Then when you add Sony's handling of Spider-man that probably isn't going to help matters very much either. It's not that it can't be done but there are less risky ventures with higher likely payouts and in the world of business that makes it very unlikely.

[matirocker]

This thread should be renamed: ''Wonder Woman's constant updates on its box office''

[RedZeppelin]

Originally Posted by matirocker

This thread should be renamed: ''Wonder Woman's constant updates on its box office''

Seems like many threads here are devolving into that lately.

[Dorklord]

Originally Posted by robgmun

Well i finally got round to seeing it this yesterday.

I have mixed feelings about the reaction to this movie. But let me talk about the movie itself first. I liked it.... i would say it was "very good" and give it a solid 7/10. It's the second best DC movie behind Man of Steel which i would give an 8/10 and i would give BvS a 7/10 as well but below WW (ruined by a ridiculous Lex Luthor). SS i would give 5/10 (That movie has serious problems)

Gal has improved a lot since BvS and is a much more convincing WW than in that movie. She looks stunning of course but what do you expect? Her acting while serviceable is still terribly wooden, although she's come a long way and Chris Pratt really gets the best out of her when they're together on screen. Chris really gave it his best here and if he phoned it in then there wouldn't have been any chemistry at all with Gal and the movie would have sunk. The SFX are good except for a couple of scenes. When she "hulks out" there seems to be some odd artistic choices for a few seconds and didn't seem to fit in with the rest of the movie or the previous movies in the DC universe. And then of course everyone has commented on the leaping off the building at the end. It really wasn't needed, and looked really bad. A better more fitting ending would be her walking out of the building and Bruce Wayne is waiting for her with a car with a message about Superman.

The rest of the movie i would say it great fun and very well made. i certainly will be buying the 3D Blu-ray.

As for the reaction of this movie? I think it's partly getting overrated because of two factors, firstly this is the first time WW has been done on the big screen and has been looong overdue. Secondly there is a big worry that the DC movies were falling short after BvS and then seriously falling off the rails after SS and it was just a relief that WW has brought it back somewhat, hopefully JL will confirm that SS was just a blip.

So the fans need to cool it a bit and not get carried away, it's a good entry in the DC universe but it isn't as perfect as some would have you believe. The similarity themed first Captain America: The First Avenger is the better movie of the two, mostly because Chris Evans is a far better actor than Gal.

Glad you enjoyed it some... but really??? The people who love WW and who saw it differently than you... should just "coot it a bit". And... it's not as "perfect as they would have you believe"???

Nonsense... look... feel however 'you' want to feel about the film... I'm totally cool with that... but don't tell me I need to cool anything. I'll believe whatever I want to believe about it and talk excitedly about it openly because I dug the hell out of it. WW was perfect to me... period.

[Batmon77]

Perfect?

[borgmatrix]

My reaction on first viewing was similar to robgmun's. I found myself surprised that reviews had been so positive, and I had a lot of issues with the final act.

Watching it again late last week with my brother (who hadn't seen it before), I enjoyed it a lot more and some of my initial reservations were less or no longer present.

I'll agree that I don't think the movie is quite as good as the praise. But, it's a pretty solid movie.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by borgmatrix

My reaction on first viewing was similar to robgmun's. I found myself surprised that reviews had been so positive, and I had a lot of issues with the final act.

Watching it again late last week with my brother (who hadn't seen it before), I enjoyed it a lot more and some of my initial reservations were less or no longer present.

I'll agree that I don't think the movie is quite as good as the praise. But, it's a pretty solid movie.

There may be a touch of the Force Awakens Syndrome at play here, in that a regulation story carried off with such energy and heart is embraced in a crazy hyped up way precisely for being not shit after the, ah, somewhat ambivalent reaction of the fans to the previous movies. And I say that with the full knowledge that I am one of TFA's detractors (sounds so much better than "hater", right?) but I'm smitten with Wonder Woman's charms nonetheless.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Wow Avengers beat Dark Knight?

Take into account that TDK also didn't have the added 3D prices that Avengers had. It did have a hint I suppose of morbid curiosity from some but just being such an amazing film with great word of mouth is what elevated it to that level.

Makes you wonder what Nolan would have done had Heath lived and he not have to change the idea from using The Joker again. TDKR in that respect was a let down because of how amazing TDK turned out and the standard it set.

Also, I applaud Wonder Woman on doing so well and it is a solid movie, but not personally my favourite of the DCEU thus far. That goes by a very small margin to the Ultimate cut of BvS followed by MoS and close behind by WW. Then Suicide Squad.

[CelluloidPal]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

Take into account that TDK also didn't have the added 3D prices that Avengers had. It did have a hint I suppose of morbid curiosity from some but just being such an amazing film with great word of mouth is what elevated it to that level.

Makes you wonder what Nolan would have done had Heath lived and he not have to change the idea from using The Joker again. TDKR in that respect was a let down because of how amazing TDK turned out and the standard it set.

Also, I applaud Wonder Woman on doing so well and it is a solid movie, but not personally my favourite of the DCEU thus far. That goes by a very small margin to the Ultimate cut of BvS followed by MoS and close behind by WW. Then Suicide Squad.

I'm of the opinion that Nolan didn't put his all into TDKR. To me, it felt rushed and it was clear that the studio wanted another one after TDK's monster success and acclaim and Nolan somehow got shoved into it and it showed in that movie. It was a total mess and disappointment on every level.
You're correct on amazing TDK turned out and setting the standard. For me, it was more of a crime action drama that a Michael Mann would direct than the typical superhero movie.

[Visionist]

Is the 3D/4K FNAC release on Amazon France too?

[Underworld54]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

Seems like many threads here are devolving into that lately.

Certainly more interesting than pages and pages of nothing but discussions about slipcovers.

[ClownPrinceofCrime]

Originally Posted by robgmun

You do have to question why WB are struggling so much despite the movies having so much talent behind them. So much so that when WW turned out to be just above average gets praised like it's the next citizen kane of superhero movies. It's frustrating because when every movie so far there are some great moments let down by really awful decisions. Man of Steel comes closest to hitting it out of the park, there very little wrong with it.

BvS - Lex ****ing Luthor, didn't anyone for a moment say, hang on..this character is utterly ridiculous??
SS - Pretty much everything was wrong with this apart of Margot Robbie nailing Harley Quinn and Deadshot being pretty cool
WW - Gal's wooden acting and a few moments of oddness

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Underworld54

Certainly more interesting than pages and pages of nothing but discussions about slipcovers.

Any chances of a steelbook? There, back on topic

[borgmatrix]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There may be a touch of the Force Awakens Syndrome at play here, in that a regulation story carried off with such energy and heart is embraced in a crazy hyped up way precisely for being not shit after the, ah, somewhat ambivalent reaction of the fans to the previous movies. And I say that with the full knowledge that I am one of TFA's detractors (sounds so much better than "hater", right?) but I'm smitten with Wonder Woman's charms nonetheless.

Exactly my thought and I almost made the comparison in my post, but decided not to. As I know you recall, I'm also a TFA detractor.

[Visionist]

Wonder Woman breaches the $410000000 ceiling.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...onderwoman.htm

[Cremildo]

My first 5-star rating in three years.

Clearly not a soulless corporate product disguised as a buffed up sitcom like the most recent offerings from that other comic-book company. From the captivating character interaction and Gal Gadot's mastery of Diana down to the hummable score and Oscar-worthy costume design, the care each department was treated with comes through, even under the CGI mayhem of some (exhilarating) setpieces.

It's one of the few superhero blockbusters that concerns itself with loss of life and suffering - Diana cares deeply for those who fall before her, even after she realizes that mankind isn't innocent. Through her goddess' untainted, sensitive gaze, Jenkins and her screenwriter show - in a way that is as spectacular as it is moving - that we have both darkness and light within ourselves. People may be weak and cruel, all too willing to fight among themselves, but they're also so much more, capable of camaraderie, self-sacrifice, love.

And for that they do deserve Wonder Woman.

[paradise.lost]

No matter how much those of us who hope and wish for, there will never be an end to this ridiculous DCEU vs. MCU pettiness. Because you will always find somebody from either camp who just can't help themselves and have to take cheap shots and find ways to antagonize the other. It's just pitiful.

[Cremildo]

Originally Posted by paradise.lost

No matter how much those of us who hope and wish for, there will never be an end to this ridiculous DCEU vs. MCU pettiness. Because you will always find somebody from either camp who just can't help themselves and have to take cheap shots and find ways to antagonize the other. It's just pitiful.

Grow a thicker skin, mate.

The day Marvel stops confusing endless wiseass one-liners unrelated to the plot with witty humor and injects some actual artistry in their visual and aural departments, the "cheap shots" will probably become less frequent.

[Falaskan]

Just re-read the original post. Can you imagine if Jennifer Love Hewitt had actually landed the role. Ew!


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