Jurassic Park Collection 4K UHD (1993-2015)

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

JP III has *always* been fugly, it was fugly in theaters. It was fugly in screeners, it was fugly on DVD, on Blu, and now on 4K. I don't know what people are expecting here.

Okay.

[sfmarine]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

They're wide releases. Should be up at GRUV, Walmart, and others soon enough. I do suggest people lock in orders at Amazon just to be safe, as some will list it much higher. If another retailer happens to have it lower, Amazon will probably lower theirs too.

Good looking out as the price already went up by $5 since yesterday.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Thanks, so what is the World series then?

That’s a 7-game baseball series, near the end of the year, where the winner of the National League and the winner of the American League square off to determine the overall champion in Major League Baseball.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Esox50

That’s a 7-game baseball series, near the end of the year, where the winner of the National League and the winner of the American League square off to determine the overall champion in Major League Baseball.

[The Rider]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

The Lost World has looked great since it debuted on Blu-Ray years ago, probably the most faithful release of the trilogy. The 4k is pretty similar to the prints. JP3 is a mess all its own though and needs a remaster just as desperately as JP.

Like part 1, JP III has too much DNR and magenta. TLW also looked very good on Blu-ray Disc, without being sharpened or filtered and without an ugly color tint. However, I've read here that the 35 mm prints probably looked different and had more of a golden look with intense blue in the night scenes. So there is obviously also a need for improvement here.

Originally Posted by Kyle15

It doesn't require a "remaster" no. They can toss the existing master thru a DV pass and call it a day. It's definitely not ideal which is why I'm hoping they go back to square one but it's hard to count on things these days.

That is also my fear. For Jurassic Park, Universal should go back to the scan and redo the color grading from scratch, and the same for JP III.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

JP III has *always* been fugly, it was fugly in theaters. It was fugly in screeners, it was fugly on DVD, on Blu, and now on 4K. I don't know what people are expecting here.

Obsessed.

[The Rider]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

No, it isn't. The masters that are actually revisionist and look nothing like the prints are usually the ones that get a free pass because they look "natural" or like other home video releases. Then ones which are more faithful yet don't look like perfectly white-balanced digital video are usually accused of being "wrong" or "revisionist" by people who provide zero evidence to back up their claims.

Definitely no, there are more than enough revisionist masters that are also criticised and have completely wrong colors. Of course it's annoying when revisionist masters like Jurassic Park or Waterworld are hardly criticised.

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

I don't know what your point about Christmas Vacation is, and I've already spoke about it with you recently. I find it kind of peculiar and frustrating that you keep bringing up titles that I've already talked about in-depth as if I haven't already addressed them enough (sometimes even responding directly to you).

And I always find it frustrating that you don't differentiate and distort the facts. You ignore all cases of color mistakes and are always ranting against people who criticise the revisionism of color grading. For you, only the wrong gradings where the colors now look ‘natural’ count. But that's far too simplistic and that's where the mistake lies. To differentiate, there are 3 different cases here:
1. A restoration is too neutral and has removed all the stylistic devices or only shows them slightly, this includes Jurassic Park or Hellraiser. The old HD master of The Terminator from the MGM Special Edition also counts.
2. A restoration picks up on the original stylistic devices, but does not implement them 100% correctly, is too exaggerated. Jurassic Park 3D is a good example here, on the one hand you get closer to the original look, on the other hand there are problems with the color of the sky.
3. A restoration is revisionist in the classic sense because the studio or director wanted a different look, just think of the green snow in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.

It's quite simple what I'm getting at here, I'm expressing myself very clearly. Many studios have problems with revisionism. Warner is one of them and Christmas Vacation is an example. The master of the 25th Anniversary Edition clearly contains too much teal and was deliberately modernised at the time to suit today's viewing habits. For the 4K Blu-ray Disc, the teal has been removed in favour of a more authentic look.

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

You've even brought up Jurassic Park and Hellraiser recently as some sort of counter to some of my comments in other threads and bringing up a Hellraiser fan project. As far as I'm aware, the guy behind the Hellraiser project was nice enough to credit me and link/quote my post on these fan sites so I don't know why it would be used against me when I may have been the first person to publicly expose how off the home video releases were. It's that sort of stuff that made me quit uploading my own scans and findings from looking at archival 35mm prints.

I always take Jurassic Park as an example because it's one of my favourite films and I think it's shameful that Universal didn't manage a worthy release here. I also find it shameful that the problem of incorrect color grading is hardly known here. I'm grateful to you regarding Hellraiser, I think you got the ball rolling.

So no, this is definitely not against you. You seem to have got something fundamentally wrong here. Ironically, I'm right here on your side.

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

Anyway, I'll link to an old post of mine concerning Christmas Vacation and I encourage anyone who decides to look at it to read my whole post, and not jump to conclusions by just looking at the images. Keep in mind, all my scans from years ago weren't done on a scanner ideal for release prints although anything I did upload (except the "raw" scans) gave a very good idea of how the colors appeared on the projected film (even if not exact). Also click on the quote and read the surrounding comments in the dedicated thread and you might understand why I decided to stop doing this.



TL;DR: The 25th Anniversary Blu-ray of Christmas Vacation is one of the most faithful and accurate home video releases I've seen, so it's no surprise that people on here had issues with it. The UHD looks different, although it seems Warner listened to people's issues with the remastered Blu-ray and provided an alternate way to view the film. It looks great, but it's not more "accurate" and there's nothing wrong with that as the 25th Anniversary Blu-ray is very faithful to the texture, density, colors, etc. of the original prints. People expect more from the UHD format. Frankly, I have no idea why people who want "preservations" that look exactly like the fourth generation prints are even buying UHDs anyway. If that's what you want then take your money and give it to film archives and they may even invite you to special screenings or provide you special access to other things.

By the way, Gremlins is another film where the blues during the night scenes looked very much like those on Christmas Vacation and definitely leaned cyan. I have scans of that film on a hard drive somewhere in storage too.

Cyan is one thing, but Christmas Vacation looks clearly modernised. Gremlins looks very authentic in 4K. Yes, if you had images from 35mm prints it would be interesting to see.

[RalphoR]

Maybe it's just in my mind but JP 3D looks better than JP. If they could have somehow finished JP and JP III anywhere like the beautiful Lost World I'd be fine and no real need to upgrade anything.

[The Rider]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

JP III has *always* been fugly, it was fugly in theaters. It was fugly in screeners, it was fugly on DVD, on Blu, and now on 4K. I don't know what people are expecting here.

That's not true, a user made image comparisons here years ago and pointed out that JP III had a significantly different look in the cinema. In home entertainment there are problems with edge enhancement, DNR and incorrect color grading.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dinosaurs/c...?show=original

Originally Posted by RalphoR

Maybe it's just in my mind but JP 3D looks better than JP. If they could have somehow finished JP and JP III anywhere like the beautiful Lost World I'd be fine and no real need to upgrade anything.

JP and JP III always looked boring in home entertainment, with the 3D conversion Jurassic Park suddenly had a look of its own. Ironically, this masterpiece already had a beautiful look in the cinemas, which was then forgotten.

[Batman90]

I had both sets ordered then canceled since all of the movies don’t have Dolby Vision.

[Buckster666]

Originally Posted by Batman90

I had both sets ordered then canceled since all of the movies don’t have Dolby Vision.

They all have Dolby Vision, people are panicking over amazon's listing which is not framed correctly.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by The Rider

Definitely no, there are more than enough revisionist masters that are also criticised and have completely wrong colors. Of course it's annoying when revisionist masters like Jurassic Park or Waterworld are hardly criticised.



And I always find it frustrating that you don't differentiate and distort the facts. You ignore all cases of color mistakes and are always ranting against people who criticise the revisionism of color grading. For you, only the wrong gradings where the colors now look ‘natural’ count. But that's far too simplistic and that's where the mistake lies. To differentiate, there are 3 different cases here:
1. A restoration is too neutral and has removed all the stylistic devices or only shows them slightly, this includes Jurassic Park or Hellraiser. The old HD master of The Terminator from the MGM Special Edition also counts.
2. A restoration picks up on the original stylistic devices, but does not implement them 100% correctly, is too exaggerated. Jurassic Park 3D is a good example here, on the one hand you get closer to the original look, on the other hand there are problems with the color of the sky.
3. A restoration is revisionist in the classic sense because the studio or director wanted a different look, just think of the green snow in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.

It's quite simple what I'm getting at here, I'm expressing myself very clearly. Many studios have problems with revisionism. Warner is one of them and Christmas Vacation is an example. The master of the 25th Anniversary Edition clearly contains too much teal and was deliberately modernised at the time to suit today's viewing habits. For the 4K Blu-ray Disc, the teal has been removed in favour of a more authentic look.



I always take Jurassic Park as an example because it's one of my favourite films and I think it's shameful that Universal didn't manage a worthy release here. I also find it shameful that the problem of incorrect color grading is hardly known here. I'm grateful to you regarding Hellraiser, I think you got the ball rolling.

So no, this is definitely not against you. You seem to have got something fundamentally wrong here. Ironically, I'm right here on your side.



Cyan is one thing, but Christmas Vacation looks clearly modernised. Gremlins looks very authentic in 4K. Yes, if you had images from 35mm prints it would be interesting to see.

As you've shown in other threads, it seems you choose to see whatever you want to see even if there's evidence strongly suggesting otherwise. You do know that it is perfectly fine to like something without it being "correct", right? This whole notion that certain Blu-ray.com forum-goers can automatically detect when something is "revisionist" and that they know the "correct" grades for films when they don't even have valid references to compare these releases to is absolutely ridiculous and incredibly tiresome to scroll through.

Weren't you claiming the Amadeus UHD was revisionist too based off of nothing except a highly revisionist HD master which was made over 20 years ago? Well, that and saying that it having "teal" and "yellow" automatically means it's been "modernized". Even though comments from the filmmakers themselves in addition to it resembling something shot with candlelight/natural light suggested the UHD was far more accurate; not to mention how seriously Paul Zaentz worked on the project to make it as faithful a presentation as possible (it's probably a much more faithful presentation than the majority of catalog UHD titles). Hell, even the edition of Christmas Vacation that you don't seem to have a problem with is more "revisionist" than the 25th Anniversary UHD because they literally digitally erased mistakes from the film LOL.

Seriously, why is it so hard for people to just admit that they have their own preferences instead of parading around on an anti-revisionist high horse in the home video realm which itself is inherently revisionist? If you want something as close to the original prints as a digital presentation on disc can replicate, then ask for these studios and labels to work with film archives and include their work (high quality print scans) on the release. Scanning an OCN in 4K+ resolution itself is highly revisionist but you don't seem to have a problem with that. Neither do most people who collect UHDs; we're getting these films in a quality that far surpasses what was shown theatrically and if you're collecting these discs then I assume most have came to terms with that. If they do that and remain faithful to the original intentions/photochemical grade then that's like the best one could reasonably ask for as far as a main presentation goes. Problem is that using reference prints still isn't the standard for everybody, but even when reference prints are used and it doesn't suit certain people's taste, it's automatically "incorrect".

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by The Rider

That's not true, a user made image comparisons here years ago and pointed out that JP III had a significantly different look in the cinema. In home entertainment there are problems with edge enhancement, DNR and incorrect color grading.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dinosaurs/c...?show=original

Except that's not how it looked in the cinema. That's someone's scans of frames and who knows what manipulation those have had. That's certainly not a projected print. Where is the soundtrack & DTS timecode strip?

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Except that's not how it looked in the cinema. That's someone's scans of frames and who knows what manipulation those have had. That's certainly not a projected print. Where is the soundtrack & DTS timecode strip?

I don't believe these fan scans include the soundtrack strip; the scanners they have access to may not even allow it. That said, the colors on that still look better than the pallid, unappealing, magenta-pushed Blu-ray/UHD. I can't remember it looking bad theatrically on 35mm at all, just on home video. Even if I'm misremembering and it didn't look good (compared to 35mm prints of other films), I fail to see why it should have to look bad on any future releases because it's digital tampering and poor grading that are the main issues with existing releases.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

I don't believe these fan scans include the soundtrack strip; the scanners they have access to may not even allow it. That said, the colors on that still look better than the pallid, unappealing, magenta-pushed Blu-ray/UHD.

It wasn't magenta pushed but it was certainly pallid theatrically. I was not impressed and being disappointed in the image quality still sticks with me.

[PhantoMaster]

Originally Posted by Daz_85

I completely agree. It would have been nice had they made a 'Bonus Material' disc for both trilogies to round up all the respective content.

It's also disappointing that there's no new bonus features, which would have been nice; something like new retrospective interview with Sam Neill and Chris Pratt would have been nice, reflecting the franchise.

[gigan72]

Originally Posted by Buckster666

They all have Dolby Vision, people are panicking over amazon's listing which is not framed correctly.

Nah, it's based mainly on the specs from Universal themselves that were posted a few pages back. The set is listed at the bottom of this page and only specifies that JP1 is DV with no mention of it on the other two park films. Still could be incorrect of course but the fearmongering is not based on Amazon specs.

I have a sliver of hope they all have DV and the specs just don't bother to specify, as it seems the Jurassic World set should all have DV although it only mentions DV on 2 of them. Fallen Kingdom doesn't have it listed, but the prior 4K of it has DV; they would have to reauthor the disc to remove DV if it's HDR only, which I don't believe it is.

[The hitcher]

Definitely a worthy upgrade

[Buckster666]

Originally Posted by gigan72

Nah, it's based mainly on the specs from Universal themselves that were posted a few pages back. The set is listed at the bottom of this page and only specifies that JP1 is DV with no mention of it on the other two park films. Still could be incorrect of course but the fearmongering is not based on Amazon specs.

I have a sliver of hope they all have DV and the specs just don't bother to specify, as it seems the Jurassic World set should all have DV although it only mentions DV on 2 of them. Fallen Kingdom doesn't have it listed, but the prior 4K of it has DV; they would have to reauthor the disc to remove DV if it's HDR only, which I don't believe it is.

If i go by that listing it doesn't say that Lost World or JP3 has HDR, so are they in SDR? They will all have DV.

[mpls1981]

Everyone just needs to agree that the current information is vague and contradictory based on which piece of information you look at and we all just need to wait until more official information is released.