Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

seeing how people are experiencing movies dropping from HD to SD on VUDU and Movies Anywhere......I'm super pumped I'm very very pro-physical media.

Originally Posted by PCFan

Are you looking forward to rebuying movies on blu-ray that you own digitally?

These Disc guys are just rationalizing on how to access their Movies, but like I said High Speed is used more than just for Movies and TV Shows. Don't be Super Pumped until you have Fiber. Disc might work for now, but everything is going Digital including your Electricity and Pills! You don't have to move for Faster Internet, but you might want to put it at the Top of your List!

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by whipnet

You can get 10gb with copper. Why the need for fiber?

Is that Symmetrical, Copper is Obsolete....Fiber is The Future!

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

seeing how people are experiencing movies dropping from HD to SD on VUDU and Movies Anywhere......I'm super pumped I'm very very pro-physical media.

I will admit it's annoying. Plus the whole harassment thing and studios removing the accused work thing makes a strong case for physical media, even though in this case i'm not sure these things were on disc anyway.

I've still been more digital lately though since space is such a huge issue.

It's mainly buying my absolute favorites on disc and movies i liked but didnt love digitally.

I have room for like 7 more movies(with 3 pre-ordered and one on hold at BN lol) , but replacing my favorite Nolan movies or T2 etc is just a swap and not encroaching on my limited space

[The_Donster]

Once again, Dynamo nails it for me and bubba111 hammers it home. I utilize both, but if we moved it would be for one of the many reasons that were mentioned above. Right now I'm trying to encourage my wife to pursue something new and stop spinning her wheels with her current position. Now whether that is closer to home or out of state, who knows? Regardless, internet is the furthest from my mind alchav21. Despite me utilizing both BD and digital.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Moving for more Bandwidth on your Internet might sound ridiculous, but a High Speed Internet is used for more than Streaming Movies and TV Shows. I have been Retired for a while, but I used my Internet to work from home accessing my Systems and all I had to do was forward my calls to my Home Office. If you read my prior Post, in one move all I had was Dial-Up but that didn't stop me I was part of the Internet Group to research and acquire High Speed Providers. We found TWC and Verizon FiOS. So don't say it can't be done, because I have done it!

Nobody is saying that it can't be done (how the F--- did you even get that out of what we've been saying?). It's just that it's not going to be that level of a priority for most people. If someone has to move for a job and don't have the option to work from home, then they are going to base their move more on things like their commute to work and the cost of housing in that general area.

Also I don't know how long ago your particular move took place, but these days most areas that are reasonably populated have some form of high speed internet (meaning NOT dial up), but not necessarily at the full speed needed to forever and always stream an HD or UHD movie from start to finish with absolutely no drops in quality at all at any point in the movie (not even for a split second) consistently pretty much every time they watch a movie or show via streaming.

Originally Posted by alchav21

These Disc guys are just rationalizing on how to access their Movies

Says the guy who thinks that people should base moving from one place to another completely or at least significantly around internet speeds available.

No one on the physical media side of this argument is advocating for anything nearly as ludicrous as that.

Even with how over the top Steedeel can get with some of his fears of what the future holds, that still doesn't come across quite as crazy as what you are suggesting IMO.

but like I said High Speed is used more than just for Movies and TV Shows.

Of course it is. My point is simply that even with having internet of a reasonable high speed, it's possible to accomplish most of those uses without it having a major impact (i.e. online gaming). But at the same time it's possible for it to dip just enough here and there to be something of a distraction when watching a movie or TV show.

Though I buy movies and TV shows on physical media, I do have subscriptions to Netflix and Hulu, and stream with them. They are otherwise decent services, and I like Netflix in particular for some of it's original content.

But that said, when I go to watch something, at minimum when starting a movie or show, it initially starts out at a lower quality and take a couple of minutes to fully "catch up" to get full quality. And there might be occasional dips here and there. Most of the time I am getting the full quality. It can be somewhat distracting, but I accept these imperfections since these are services that result in me accessing a lot of content for a low monthly price.

But when I'm flat out buying individual movies and TV seasons, I don't want those same issues, not even for a split second while watching them. So I'm going to opt for physical media since that will pretty much guarantee me the consistent experience that I want. For any titles that include them, I still redeem the digital codes for when/if I'm ever in a situation where those come in handy (presumably while traveling or something), but I see no reason to stop buying physical media in favor of digital distribution. Getting up to swap out a disc occasionally is not that big of a deal.

Don't be Super Pumped until you have Fiber. Disc might work for now, but everything is going Digital including your Electricity and Pills!

I don't even know where to begin with this asinine statement. You've actually managed to top the stupidity of your "local server, here we come!" comment from a while back, where people here were talking about local servers (which are someone's personal server in their own home that they've downloaded/ripped their content to), and you were absurdly interpreting it as being a server provided by the services provider that was outside of, but near one's home.

Talk about exercises of mental gymnastics.

You don't have to move for Faster Internet, but you might want to put it at the Top of your List!

That is absurd for the reasons that I and others here have already pointed out. For someone who claims to be so forward thinking with being on board with digital distribution and such, you are surprisingly out of touch on many, many levels.

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by alchav21

These Disc guys are just rationalizing on how to access their Movies, but like I said High Speed is used more than just for Movies and TV Shows. Don't be Super Pumped until you have Fiber. Disc might work for now, but everything is going Digital including your Electricity and Pills! You don't have to move for Faster Internet, but you might want to put it at the Top of your List!

at this.

I still don't buy that digital/streaming is going to be the only thing in the future. I live in WI......if you drive an hour north of where I live, there are people who can't even get internet through the cable company....that's how remote some places are.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Moving for more Bandwidth on your Internet might sound ridiculous, but a High Speed Internet is used for more than Streaming Movies and TV Shows. I have been Retired for a while, but I used my Internet to work from home accessing my Systems and all I had to do was forward my calls to my Home Office. If you read my prior Post, in one move all I had was Dial-Up but that didn't stop me I was part of the Internet Group to research and acquire High Speed Providers. We found TWC and Verizon FiOS. So don't say it can't be done, because I have done it!

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Nobody is saying that it can't be done (how the F--- did you even get that out of what we've been saying?). It's just that it's not going to be that level of a priority for most people. If someone has to move for a job and don't have the option to work from home, then they are going to base their move more on things like their commute to work and the cost of housing in that general area.

Also I don't know how long ago your particular move took place, but these days most areas that are reasonably populated have some form of high speed internet (meaning NOT dial up), but not necessarily at the full speed needed to forever and always stream an HD or UHD movie from start to finish with absolutely no drops in quality at all at any point in the movie (not even for a split second) consistently pretty much every time they watch a movie or show via streaming.

Don't get excited, I was talking in general terms that people put obstacles and say it can't be done. You're right people move for various reasons, and usually Internet is far down the list. The move I was talking about was in 2000, and I had Basic DSL in the Bay Area California. I thought most of California had this, and I was wrong only Dial-Up was available in this Community in Palm Desert. I'm sure even now some areas still only have Dial-Up or Basic DSL at 3Mbps. Rural areas are hard to upgrade, but if you are in a decent size Community you can unite the home owners and find a Provider that will give you High Speed Broadband.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The move I was talking about was in 2000

That explains a lot right there.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

These Disc guys are just rationalizing on how to access their Movies, but like I said High Speed is used more than just for Movies and TV Shows. Don't be Super Pumped until you have Fiber. Disc might work for now, but everything is going Digital including your Electricity and Pills! You don't have to move for Faster Internet, but you might want to put it at the Top of your List!

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

at this.

I still don't buy that digital/streaming is going to be the only thing in the future. I live in WI......if you drive an hour north of where I live, there are people who can't even get internet through the cable company....that's how remote some places are.

I know Digital Electricity and Pills are far fetched, but I have read they are experimenting with them. As for Internet I'm sure there are people still with Dial-Up or Basic DSL. If you read anything people are dropping their Cable TV and going Streaming. Telco's and Cable Companies are buying up Content Providers, and I feel Streaming will be the way they will distribute this information. So Digital/Streaming might not be the only thing, but it will be in high demand.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know Digital Electricity and Pills are far fetched, but I have read they are experimenting with them. As for Internet I'm sure there are people still with Dial-Up or Basic DSL. If you read anything people are dropping their Cable TV and going Streaming. Telco's and Cable Companies are buying up Content Providers, and I feel Streaming will be the way they will distribute this information. So Digital/Streaming might not be the only thing, but it will be in high demand.

OK, dude you need to stop. I don't know what bubble community you live in, but there is no "dropping cable/satellite" (I added that last one because its a reality) for streaming. Both own a large chunk of the internet in some way. You kind of need them to stream or pay through the nose for internet. Not to mention, not all internet services are created equal. Which is what we've been trying to explain to you. You need one of them to sign into some of the cable apps out there. I know I need it when watching the NBC app. I'm also locked out of the Starz app because they and Xfinity had a falling out when they merged Encore into the app because Xfinity isn't one of the providers listed. It is great that your area fulfills your needs, but you've just got to knock it off. Because you are polluting the water and making the case for pro streaming worse with your posts.

[Jameron4eva]

I prefer physical, but sometimes i'll buy digital for good deals. Like with Ghost in The Shell S.A.C. (1st season) I bought it for $20 from MS, physical is near $50, and has many problems, and even if my digital has similar problems,i only paid $20 XD.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know Digital Electricity and Pills are far fetched, but I have read they are experimenting with them.

And where exactly did you read this nonsense? How the hell would "digital pills' even work? That makes NO sense at all.

Originally Posted by alchav21

As for Internet I'm sure there are people still with Dial-Up or Basic DSL.

Which begs the question of whether or not they just opted not to upgrade, or if there aren't better options in their area. And if it's the latter, then it's a HUGE knock against streaming if they can't even get the level of internet needed to stream at consistent high quality (if at all). Now you're basically making the case for discs with this statement.

[whipnet]

The digital guys never mention "Net Neutrality" and how one day it won't exist and the gatekeepers (who now own the media) will once again control what we see like TV. Television was an open frontier at one point too. Goodbye dissenting voices....

*

[dublinbluray108]

People who are pro digital are stuck with a long term outcome that is probably not tenable if they try to reverse their situation because they are being offered higher data allowances, faster connections & faster streams which in theory can give them more bang for their money.

People who are pro physical may not have that option of faster internet afforded to them as they have to stick with disc if they prefer to have a player & a TV in their home. They would not prefer to deal with the stress of ditching their home video or music discs which may cause them problems down the line of not having an adequate internet connection available to them because of lack of ISPs in their area. They may like the idea of having faster internet but the cost of having fibre in their house maybe prohibitive to them if they want to use Netflix, VUDU iTunes or whether or not they live in another country etc.

People just like having options available to them. This is just it in a nutshell. People can't force others to go onto a worse option to suit a primary ideal of going onto streaming or downloading. People who are pro physical media maybe don't want to deal with that process as it could turn into a fine mess for them. And who could be at fault; it can lie squarely with those who are just solely pro digital. Just sayin!

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

And where exactly did you read this nonsense? How the hell would "digital pills' even work? That makes NO sense at all.

Which begs the question of whether or not they just opted not to upgrade, or if there aren't better options in their area. And if it's the latter, then it's a HUGE knock against streaming if they can't even get the level of internet needed to stream at consistent high quality (if at all). Now you're basically making the case for discs with this statement.

I think I read it in Money Magazine, where they talked about Digital Pills. It had more to do with tracking and dispensing, since keeping a chemical balance for health has been a problem with so many pills and medication people take. Like I said, everything is going Digital and the only people getting all worked up are the Physical Disc Users. You guys are a "Timex Watch in a Digital Age." I have also said that Copper is Obsolete, and our Infrastructure has to be upgraded to Fiber to accommodate the amount of Bandwidth that will be needed. Of course Wireless will be there too for Mobile Devices and locations that can't be accessed for Fiber. With a Digital World it should be clear the Natural Order of things will be Networks and Servers. So get ready for a Brave New Fiber World! To some of you guys I might sound crazier than Steedeel!

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I think I read it in Money Magazine, where they talked about Digital Pills. It had more to do with tracking and dispensing, since keeping a chemical balance for health has been a problem with so many pills and medication people take.

That is significantly different than the impression that the term "digital pills" gives off. Anyone reading that is going to by default think that you are referring to pills, themselves, somehow being digital, which makes no sense.

What you are describing is more akin to a prescription being sent into a pharmacy, and the pharmacy's computer system generating an automatic alert about any problems/chemical reactions that it might have with other prescription medications that the person is already taking. That's been around for some time. And that's substantially different than what we are talking about here.

Like I said, everything is going Digital and the only people getting all worked up are the Physical Disc Users. You guys are a "Timex Watch in a Digital Age."

The irony of this statement being that you keep saying (in reference to both discs and streaming) that "it's all digital." Now that doesn't mean it's all equal (which is roughly what you try to imply with that statement), but the data itself is digital none the less. So we are otherwise using digital content in the digital age, thereby defeating your point and comparison here.

It's not like we are somehow against anything that is digital (i.e. the aforementioned systems that pharmacies have that alert them to a possible reaction between two or more drugs). It's a nonsense comparison.

But when I buy a movie, I want to be ensured that I have access to it ongoingly. With streaming, that's not necessarily guaranteed. With physical media, we are in control. And since a lot of discs come with digital copies anyway, it's not like we are necessarily without the benefits of digital distribution just because we have things on physical discs.

I don't necessarily have a problem with things "going digital" where it makes sense and gives a true advantage. But if there is a major trade off, then I will weigh the pros and cons of it. There are too many cons for me to trust digital distribution as a primary form through which I purchase individual pieces of content. Netflix and the like is ok, since I don't go into it assuming to necessarily have "permanent" access to any specific piece of content on it.

If someone were to invent a toilet that requires an internet connection and digital signal in order to work, I would be highly against it. That would be an example of something going digital for no good reason other than to say "it is digital in the digital age." It would just be a pointless additional variable that could go wrong and adds nothing of value to the functioning of a toilet.

I have also said that Copper is Obsolete, and our Infrastructure has to be upgraded to Fiber to accommodate the amount of Bandwidth that will be needed. Of course Wireless will be there too for Mobile Devices and locations that can't be accessed for Fiber. With a Digital World it should be clear the Natural Order of things will be Networks and Servers. So get ready for a Brave New Fiber World! To some of you guys I might sound crazier than Steedeel!

Because even when you occasionally do make a valid point, you somehow manage to throw a touch of "crazy" in with it. The way you go on and on about fiber, you seem more interested and even obsessed with that type of wiring in-and-of itself than you are in the end result of it giving higher capacity for streaming.

But more on point, until that infrastructure is properly updated across the board (whether it be with fiber or something else that is just as good or better), there will continue to be major downsides to digital distribution in many areas (beyond the ones that will still be there IMO even with the best of connection speeds).

At the end of the day, people sticking with discs for the movies that they purchase isn't really a disadvantage to anyone. It's not going to stop people who want to stream from doing so. While physical media will likely gradually become more niche, I highly doubt that it will fully go away within our lifetimes. It will just get to a point where physical B&M stores will carry fewer catalog titles and will mostly just have the newest releases available, and online shops will carry the rest. New releases are what sell the best these days on physical media, with older catalog titles that have been available for a while becoming more or less stagnant.

Digital distribution is part of the reason for that, but another big part of the reason is people having already bought things previously that they aren't necessarily going to buy again unless they feel there's a specific reason to that makes sense to the individual. There was a time several years back where it was pretty common for me to drop over $100 (sometimes over $200) each week on new releases, including movies, TV shows, etc. on DVD and later Blu-Ray. These days me spending that much weekly is far less common (which is good news for my wallet). That has nothing to do with me "losing interest" in physical media or being more selective about what I buy. Far from it. It's just that the rate at which titles that I want to add to my collection (or even upgrade to a newer format) just aren't coming out as rapidly as they did years ago. And with a lot of TV show content that I bought (much of which is shows that I grew up with in the 80s and 90s), if it's even still in print, it's not exactly going to get some major upgraded HD release (there are exceptions, but they are few and far between), so there's little to no reason to rebuy it.

If Vinyl records can have a place (even if a niche one) in today's marketplace, I don't see any reason to believe physical discs for movies will fully disappear anytime soon, if ever.

[flyry]

This ludicrous thread has gotten to the point where we are bringing up toilets as an example

[cwhite40]

Applies to this thread in more ways than one.

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by whipnet

The digital guys never mention "Net Neutrality" and how one day it won't exist and the gatekeepers (who now own the media) will once again control what we see like TV. Television was an open frontier at one point too. Goodbye dissenting voices....

*

Every major movie I really care to watch I own in physical form. Wait until access to Netflix or Vudu costs you even more money per month. If it happens, all these pro-digital people won't be very happy. What good is your movie collection online when the toll road to access it increases dramatically.

[Reno Fan]

Originally Posted by WestMan

Every major movie I really care to watch I own in physical form. Wait until access to Netflix or Vudu costs you even more money per month. If it happens, all these pro-digital people won't be very happy. What good is your movie collection online when the toll road to access it increases dramatically.

I believe that studios were ok with digital services like Netflix for older movies that people may not be willing to pay to watch.

That is, they would rather receive something rather than nothing.

What they are not ok with is new movies being available in a similar fashion.

As consumers, we love the idea of a relatively low fixed price for EVERYTHING, new and old.

The problem is that for new movies, stuidios may not have recouped costs. And as more people move to the new services - with many deciding that paying $10-20 per ticket is not worth it versus $10-20/month for a library of entertainment - it becomes harder to recoup costs.

To me, I am ok with streaming Nicolas Cage movies but to actually go to the theater and pay $10 for a ticket and another $10 for concessions isn't really appealing versus $10 a month for a library of entertainment and paying far less for snacks at home.

In fact, I think many are OK with this and that's why Nicolas Cage movies do poorly at the box office.

It's not that people are not interested in watching the movies.

It's that people are not interested in paying $10 for one move ticket vs. $10 for a library. (Obviously some will steal, but let's say that most people at this point are still willing to pay something.)

I use Nicolas Cage as an example because it seems that his movies get no big theater release in 2017 ..... and yet they still get made.

This suggests that it is possible for a studio to invest in a Nicolas Cage movie .... with the majority of the revenue coming from streaming/VOD services and still make enough to break even (perhaps even profitable after local tax incentives).

Of course, they are not lavish $100 Million productions, but the fact that they keep being made suggests that they must be profitable versus the cost.

While it demonstrates that it is still profitable to be digital/VOD only, I think many people want the $100 Million productions while only paying the same as ones made at a fraction of the cost.

That's a problem. It's not profitable to spend $100 Million on a movie that only has digital/VOD revenue.

Netflix has spent a lot of money on a couple of projects, but I think they realize that the individual projects will likely fail financially.

The hope is that you not only stream the $100 Million production .... but that you also stream the much lower costing productions in later months.