best plasma tv for Blu-ray?

[Sabotage]

Sony Bravia.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by b00st

while the words always and all as we know...doesn't mean always and all. i guess it words we shouldn't use.

but i would say IMHO...i like more plasmas than LCDs. and when you look at cost...plasma out performs LCD on a $$$ to performance level.

The G10 panny is also a very well received plasma and is a few hundred cheaper than a V10. I believe we can find exceptions to the rules here...but what i'm looking at...is I like more plasmas than LCDs....especially if we are looking at it from a cost standpoint. we know every plasma isn't the best. and we know every LCD isn't the best. depends on the owner and how the want to tatical the issue.......is it price? is it...i need the best damn tv EVAR made? bang for buck?

Like I said, I'm an owner of two plasmas so its obvious that I prefer plasma. Yes, the G10 is well received and its a good set, but as of today there are other sets including LCD's that are better for the same price. That's the point I'm making. Whether you prefer one tech over the other is all one's preference, but it still doesn't change the fact that there are valid options with both LCD and plasma and at the same price points.

Even the best LCD's will have their downsides, and those may be deal breakers for you and me as well. On the other hand there are downsides to the best plasmas which may be deal breakers for others. All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "plasmas always beats LCD's" is just too far from the truth. When I disagreed with your statement you then changed your position stating that only the expensive LCD's can compete, and I then provided examples of LCD's that not only beat a good deal of highly regarded plasmas but ones that do so at a competitive price.

I am a very happy plasma owner. Both of my sets bring me lots of pleasure. That does not mean that I'm going to push the tech on someone who doesn't want it for whatever reason. I'm also not going answer everyone's inquiries with some sort of bias. If someone asks me what I think of the G10 and the V10 then I will say it...these are good sets, but there other options out there that perform just as good or better for the same money. Some of those sets happen to be LCD's.

And the G10 and V10 are pretty far apart in picture quality IMO. I've seen both many times and the G10 is nowhere near as accurate as the V10 which also has some accuracy issues, nothing detrimental, but there are definitely some accuracy issues. I personally wouldn't want a G10 since there are definitely more accurate sets out there for the money. The V10 I could easily live with on the other hand, but even it has some good LCD competition at 55" and under. At 58" or larger the V10 is pretty much the only worthwhile choice unless you prefer the Samsung B860 or have money for a Kuro if you can even find one. Oh yeah...Mitsubishi's 65" LaserVue can be had for $4000 now so I guess that's now a somewhat reasonable option.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Sabotage

Sony Bravia.

Sony doesn't make plasmas.

[b00st]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

Like I said, I'm an owner of two plasmas so its obvious that I prefer plasma. Yes, the G10 is well received and its a good set, but as of today there are other sets including LCD's that are better for the same price. That's the point I'm making. Whether you prefer one tech over the other is all one's preference, but it still doesn't change the fact that there are valid options with both LCD and plasma and at the same price points.

Even the best LCD's will have their downsides, and those may be deal breakers for you and me as well. On the other hand there are downsides to the best plasmas which may be deal breakers for others. All I'm saying is that a blanket statement such as "plasmas always beats LCD's" is just too far from the truth. When I disagreed with your statement you then changed your position stating that only the expensive LCD's can compete, and I then provided examples of LCD's that not only beat a good deal of highly regarded plasmas but ones that do so at a competitive price.

I am a very happy plasma owner. Both of my sets bring me lots of pleasure. That does not mean that I'm going to push the tech on someone who doesn't want it for whatever reason. I'm also not going answer everyone's inquiries with some sort of bias. If someone asks me what I think of the G10 and the V10 then I will say it...these are good sets, but there other options out there that perform just as good or better for the same money. Some of those sets happen to be LCD's.

And the G10 and V10 are pretty far apart in picture quality IMO. I've seen both many times and the G10 is nowhere near as accurate as the V10 which also has some accuracy issues, nothing detrimental, but there are definitely some accuracy issues. I personally wouldn't want a G10 since there are definitely more accurate sets out there for the money. The V10 I could easily live with on the other hand, but even it has some good LCD competition at 55" and under. At 58" or larger the V10 is pretty much the only worthwhile choice unless you prefer the Samsung B860 or have money for a Kuro if you can even find one. Oh yeah...Mitsubishi's 65" LaserVue can be had for $4000 now so I guess that's now a somewhat reasonable option.

easy easy easy....
to each there own is all i'm saying...each tech does have there pluses and minuses. its whatever fits the issue they are trying to solve.

but a b860 is not a good lcd IMHO.
g10 was rated the best 42 in TV in class...period...and i've seen both. i don't believe them to be far apart either. i compared with using my musil calibration disc. g10 was pretty damn decent. v10 was better and does 24p...so that was huge...and the v10 has been compared to the pioneer fd151 since it came out...that is saying something. the only LED LCD worth buying are the XBr8 or B8500...if i wanted to spend 4.5k - 5k.

DLP....well..........i'll just leave that one alone.

yes i agree there are many tvs out there to ge the job done. i don't believe that saying X tv is the one you should buy...there are more things to consider...ambient light...use....etc...etc.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

The point of my response was to dispel the notion that plasma always beats LCD which just isn't true. That was a very broad statement by the user who posted it, and that sort of statement really has to be responded to.

I own two plasmas as a former LCD owner so its pretty obvious what my preference is. As far as costs go, yes the XBR8 and B8500 are much more expensive which I did point out in my post by the way. On the other hand the LG 55LH90 can be had for around the same price as the 54" V10 and I've seen it as low as $2000 on sale.

This is a set that performs better than the V10. Marginal gains or not its still an overall better set for roughly the same money.

I'd rather have a G10 or V10 - off axis colour issues and black levels would be something that would prevent me from wanting people to come over and enjoy a movie or TV at my place...with the V10 or G10 I don't have those worries. The marginal gains sitting dead on axis aren't worth it to me. In addition the motion interpolation artifacts aren't even touched on by most reviewiers and won't show up on ordinary calibration tools.

I'd take the 54" V10 anyday.

I know that the blanket statement that plasma's are better than LCD's is totally wrong, but until I have a room for viewing that's made for just me I wouldn't consider one of the LED sets.

[TechPro]

Kuro all the way!!

[ss218]

ok.. best plasma that does 24p correctly within the 900-1.2k range?

[staggerlee]

Originally Posted by HiDefRev

ss218 - There is NO LCD that can touch a plasma for smoothness, clarity, depth of color, viewing angles or black levels whether it be 120Hz or 240Hz. The Panny G10 is BY FAR your best bet. You ABSOLUTELY cannot do any better for the money. There are several members here who took their new LCDs back to the store and exchanged them for plasmas. I have yet to hear of someone who exchanged their new plasma for an LCD ! Case closed.

Your kidding right?
I have been watching from angles, straight on.
And have decided on a Sony, even though I thought the Samsung looked a little better.
There is no fan in the LCD, it don't get that hot.
I can see it very good from the side but it is kept in a corner at an angle.
1080I& 1080P?
Remember the fight between VHS and BETA.
VHS won the race, and just watch where the plasma goes.
But maybe its just me.
Thanks,
Lee

[nugent]

Originally Posted by staggerlee

Your kidding right?
I have been watching from angles, straight on.
And have decided on a Sony, even though I thought the Samsung looked a little better.
There is no fan in the LCD, it don't get that hot.
I can see it very good from the side but it is kept in a corner at an angle.
1080I& 1080P?
Remember the fight between VHS and BETA.
VHS won the race, and just watch where the plasma goes.
But maybe its just me.
Thanks,
Lee

You're trolling in the "plasma" forum.
Don't look for a lot of support on your observations.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by b00st

easy easy easy....
to each there own is all i'm saying...each tech does have there pluses and minuses. its whatever fits the issue they are trying to solve.

but a b860 is not a good lcd IMHO.
g10 was rated the best 42 in TV in class...period...and i've seen both. i don't believe them to be far apart either. i compared with using my musil calibration disc. g10 was pretty damn decent. v10 was better and does 24p...so that was huge...and the v10 has been compared to the pioneer fd151 since it came out...that is saying something. the only LED LCD worth buying are the XBr8 or B8500...if i wanted to spend 4.5k - 5k.

DLP....well..........i'll just leave that one alone.

yes i agree there are many tvs out there to ge the job done. i don't believe that saying X tv is the one you should buy...there are more things to consider...ambient light...use....etc...etc.

Yes, everyone has their own personal preference and opinions. You prefer plasma while many others prefer LCD. The Samsung B860 is an excellent plasma IMO though. Not the best black levels but solid. It does have extremely accurate colors right out the box though. This is why it came in ahead of the V10 and right behind the Kuro in the HDTV Shootout. Its color accuracy was actually slightly better than the Kuro's. Of course it couldn't begin to compete with the Kuro's black level though.

Your opinion on the G10 and V10 differs from mine also. I too have seen them countless times and to my eyes the two sets are very far apart in performance. Black level is slightly better on the V10, but even more important to me is the difference in color accuracy, and every time I've seen these sets the G10 just sticks out like a sore thumb as being very inaccurate.

The V10 is much nicer, but its accuracy is not the best out there either. Just my observations and I've viewed these sets in a dimly lit viewing room in a Magnolia Best Buy. In fact the V10 was right beside a Kuro 151FD with a Samsung B8000 under the Kuro and Toshiba LED next to it and both a Sony XBR8 and the Sharp LED on the very next wall. The LG LED was a little further down on the same wall as the Sony and Sharp sets. I've checked all to ensure that they weren't on vivid settings.

No matter what regard the G10 and the V10 are held in the fact is that neither set is up to par with accuracy, and that's what the bottom line is to me. The V10...not so bad, but its weakness in color accuracy became very apparent when viewing it in a room full of more accurate TVs. Yes its blacks were close to the Kuro, but other sets were right there as well. Was the V10 the weakest of the best sets in there? No, it was not. To me the Toshiba LED was easily the weakest set. It has excellent blacks but color accuracy was way off and no matter what I tried it just didn't cut it. It also crushed blacks quite a bit and shadow detail just wasn't that good.

The other LED sets in the room were easily better than the Toshiba and IMO about even with the V10. None were perfect, but the V10 isn't either. One thing I can say is that all of the other LED sets were more accurate than the V10 point blank. There were other things that I can take points from with these sets though. The B8000 had OK viewing angles...nothing to write home about but there was also some flashlighting going on. Nothing major, but I noticed it. Nothing like that with the XBR8 but viewing angles were nothing to brag about either.

The LG was pretty even with the XBR8 with the XBR8 having slightly better blacks but the LG having slightly better colors. Viewing angles on the LG were better too, but still nothing to get too excited about. The Sharp had very wide viewing angles...some of the best I've ever seen on an LCD. Colors were good...better than the V10, about the same as the XBR8, but not quite as good as the others save for the Toshiba which all other sets easily beat.

All in all these are mostly even sets. Each has their pluses and minuses, but overall either of these sets will give you roughly the same performance. Some hate bad viewing angles. I happen to be in that group which is why I now have plasmas. I must note however that the Sharp had viewing angles that were nearly as good as plasma. This may not even be an issue for everyone though, and some people may want better colors and all of these LCDs save for the Toshiba is better than the V10 in this regard. All of these TVs had very similar black level performance getting respectively close to the Kuro, but none was quite there.

All I'm saying is that there are alternatives that can compete and even beat the V10 at the same price point. As I stated earlier Chad B. puts the LG in his top 3 coming in behind the Samsung B8500 and the 151FD. He considers all three of these sets to be reference quality. The LG is available for roughly $2500, and I've seen it as low as $2000. Like I also stated the Sharp is available for under $1600 online and it too is at least as good as the V10. I personally don't have a preference with the technology. I just want the best picture I can get no matter which it is and at the time of purchase my Panny was the best picture I could get for the money I spent.

When I purchased my Kuro it was and still is the best that I could get for my money. The thing is if I didn't get the Kuro when I did I may not have been able to get one at all and I would now be looking for something else. I might very well be getting a V10 myself, but there's also the possibility that I would get an LCD because in truth there are LCD's that match up or beat it available for the same money. When I bought my Panny there wasn't any LCD that could touch it, but things are very different now.

And if you really want to know what TV in the room came the closest to the Kuro, it was none that I've previously mentioned. It was the Panasonic Z1. Its basically a thinner and much more accurate V10....absolutely beautiful. Unfortunately it costs quite a bit. You can get a 65" V10 for less than the Z1, or maybe even a 60" Kuro if you luck up.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by staggerlee

1080I& 1080P?

Is there a point here I'm missing? They're the same resolution.

Remember the fight between VHS and BETA.

A home media battle, yes. Perhaps that would be relevant if studios were able to determine which display technology their movies were allowed to be viewed on?

VHS won the race, and just watch where the plasma goes.
But maybe its just me.

It's definitely just you, you should check the sales figures.

[nugent]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=127821

"Plasma TV technology is still considered the gold standard of picture quality by discerning home theater enthusiasts," said Tim Alessi, director of product development, LG Electronics USA. "

[ss218]

ok.. best plasma that does 24p correctly within the 900-1.2k range? and i still havent been able to find the highly recommended g10 anywhere

[Ambien Gnome]

Originally Posted by HiDefRev

The G10 and S1 work fine at 60Hz with the 3:2 pulldown.

Wait, huh?
60hz plasma? Plasmas do the 3:2 pulldown? Ok now I'm confused.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Ambien Gnome

Wait, huh?
60hz plasma? Plasmas do the 3:2 pulldown? Ok now I'm confused.

Yes, there are plasmas that do. If I'm not mistaken all current Samsung plasmas are 96hz, but both Panasonic and LG still make plasmas that do 3:2 pull down at 60hz. The G10 has a 48hz mode for 2:2 which is more ideal for 24p performance, but some people are bothered by the flicker at this lower refresh rate. The V10 of course has a 96hz 4:4 mode which prevents the flicker. All entry level Panasonic sets below the G10 utilize 3:2 pull down.

[Ambien Gnome]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

All entry level Panasonic sets below the G10 utilize 3:2 pull down.

Oh boy am I lost.
I only thought the 60hz lcds utilize 3:2 pulldown, because they had to.
I didn't think any plasmas had to utilize this feature, because plasmas are not 60hz.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Ambien Gnome

Oh boy am I lost.
I only thought the 60hz lcds utilize 3:2 pulldown, because they had to.
I didn't think any plasmas had to utilize this feature, because plasmas are not 60hz.

No, there are plenty of plasmas that are 60hz. You are probably thinking about the advertised 600hz sub-field that manufacturers are stating which is something totally different. It has to do more with motion resolution, but its really just a marketing point. Plasmas have never had motion problems.

The difference between LCDs and plasmas are not just about the refresh rates, but also the response times. The reason you see LCDs with 120hz, 240hz, and the upcoming 480hz refresh rates is to give better motion resolution and make up for the disadvantage that LCD's have with response time. Of course these higher refresh rates are also desirable for 24p playback to eliminate judder as well.

Plasmas have such fast response times that motion isn't a problem which is why you never see plasmas with motion blur like you can see with LCDs. Plasma response times are a tiny fraction of a millisecond while the best LCDs are around 2ms.

As far as 24p playback goes, or movies shot at 24 frames per second to be precise, a multiple of 24 is desirable for the best results. Since most TV's refresh at 60hz you have to use 3:2 pull down since 60 is not a multiple of 24. This results in judder, but a set like the G10 which refreshes at 48hz will produce no judder although at this lower refresh rate some people will see a flicker.

Pioneer sets are 72hz, a multiple of 24, so there will be no judder nor will there be a flicker. Samsung sets are 96hz and the Panasonic V10 and Z1 are both 96hz so these will not produce judder or a flicker either. 60hz LCDs of course use 3:2 pull down so they will produce judder, but 120hz and 240hz sets don't since these are multiples of 24. Like I said before, there are plenty of plasmas that refresh at 60hz including all of the entry level Panasonic and LG sets.

[Ambien Gnome]

Originally Posted by lojack1976

No, there are plenty of plasmas that are 60hz. You are probably thinking about the advertised 600hz sub-field that manufacturers are stating which is something totally different. It has to do more with motion resolution, but its really just a marketing point. Plasmas have never had motion problems.

The difference between LCDs and plasmas are not just about the refresh rates, but also the response times. The reason you see LCDs with 120hz, 240hz, and the upcoming 480hz refresh rates is to give better motion resolution and make up for the disadvantage that LCD's have with response time. Of course these higher refresh rates are also desirable for 24p playback to eliminate judder as well.

Plasmas have such fast response times that motion isn't a problem which is why you never see plasmas with motion blur like you can see with LCDs. Plasma response times are a tiny fraction of a millisecond while the best LCDs are around 2ms.

As far as 24p playback goes, or movies shot at 24 frames per second to be precise, a multiple of 24 is desirable for the best results. Since most TV's refresh at 60hz you have to use 3:2 pull down since 60 is not a multiple of 24. This results in judder, but a set like the G10 which refreshes at 48hz will produce no judder although at this lower refresh rate some people will see a flicker.

Pioneer sets are 72hz, a multiple of 24, so there will be no judder nor will there be a flicker. Samsung sets are 96hz and the Panasonic V10 and Z1 are both 96hz so these will not produce judder or a flicker either. 60hz LCDs of course use 3:2 pull down so they will produce judder, but 120hz and 240hz sets don't since these are multiples of 24. Like I said before, there are plenty of plasmas that refresh at 60hz including all of the entry level Panasonic and LG sets.

So plasmas advertised as 600hz have nothing to do with judder? I would still need to find out the "true" refresh time of a plasma if I wanted no judder? (e.g. the U1, I can't find a "true" refresh rate for it, but it is a entry level set, so according to you its 60hz?)

The U1, however, I believe is advertised as having the 24p feature. Does that mean its 48, 72, or 96hz?

And I didn't think lcds really had a "blur" problem, I think I read a review of the plasma S1 that had a terrible "blur" (colors trailing, mixing, etc) problem.

I could be, and probably am, wrong.

Thanks.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by Ambien Gnome

So plasmas advertised as 600hz have nothing to do with judder? I would still need to find out the "true" refresh time of a plasma if I wanted no judder? (e.g. the U1, I can't find a "true" refresh rate for it, but it is a entry level set, so according to you its 60hz?)

The U1, however, I believe is advertised as having the 24p feature. Does that mean its 48, 72, or 96hz?

And I didn't think lcds really had a "blur" problem, I think I read a review of the plasma S1 that had a terrible "blur" (colors trailing, mixing, etc) problem.

I could be, and probably am, wrong.

Thanks.

The 600hz sub-field has absolutely nothing to do with judder. Its about motion resolution, and the only reason they started using that as a selling point is because LCDs were getting so much love for the 120hz and 240hz selling points. 600hz just sounds nice, but its the sub-field and not the TV's refresh rate. The U1 refreshes at 60hz and does not support 24p playback without the use of 3:2 pull down. You can look HERE for specs on the U1.

And yes, LCDs experience motion blur, but plasmas do not. Some people are sensitive to phosphor trails on plasmas from what I've read which is probably what you are reading about. I myself have never seen this effect on any plasma so I don't know if its a myth or if its real, but there are no blurring issues with plasmas.

[joker552]

The 3D crap just isn't what I need at this time.