Attention early adopters!

[ben7ben3]

Originally Posted by Lee Christie

Because say you were to buy a combo player, ignoring the fact its increadably expensive, say you bought about 50 Blu-ray Discs, and 50 HD DVDs, then when the war is won you'll have 50 usless discs.

Why?... Because even though you currently own a player for them, it'll be unsupported, start to become old and ugly, and when it breaks down you'll have trouble finding a replacment device that reads the losing format. (ever tried to find a Betamax player?... well I haven't but I'm guessing it's difficult)

So I'd say, either pick a camp or stick to DVDs. That's just my opinion.

But from your argument, if you pick the losing side, which COULD be blu ray, then you are out an entire collection...
really, the argument is moot, in my opinion anyone buying these new formats is doing so so that they can enjoy them right now, so that they can see their fave movies in HD right NOW. imo, this war will not be won by even the end of 2009, regardless of studio support on either side. yes, blu ray has its advantages, but so did beta, and the fact is HD DVD IS a good format. it may not be as good as blu potentially, but for the general consumer out there, hd dvd is more than acceptable. i had been a blu supporter, but now i am into hd dvd as well, because i don't see an end...nevertheless, i am hopeful blu will win, so i buy ALL my HD DVD stuff used so as to push my support to the blu side...but that doesn't mean i can't enjoy the hd movies that are out there as well as the blu ones. i think a lot of the people on these forums need to stop being so rude to people who want to get both, who are u to say u are the right one? u really do put a lot of people off to the situation by treating them like garbage just because their opinion is neutral or different than yours.

[Marcusarilius]

You know, I do not consider early adaption to an HD (blu) format any kind of risk at all. For the measly investment of $499.00 for a Sony 300 blu player, I am enjoying the best HD PQ and SQ ever! As far as paying for the BDs? I will have these till I die. Whats the problem? I'm completely satisfied with this decision! The movies are on there way folks. I have purchased everything I want for the moment and am waiting for future titles which will be more prevelant and frequent in their release. No freaking out is necessary if a title is delayed or cancelled. We are winning this so called war, just a matter of time. Relax everyone and watch this technology expand and take over. It will be a pleasure to watch unfold and to know that this camp of awsome blu fighters helped to facilitate our HD format far ahead of schedule. Enjoy!!!

[jsteinhauer]

I am wondering why there are so many axes to grind and why there are such entrenched camps surrounding this format war.

In the spring, I finally had enough money on hand after obligations to go and buy some nice home theater hardware (52" XBR2 LCD, AV receiver, 6.1 speakers, DVR, and a Sony Bluray player). But after all of that, a few hundred extra bucks for a HDDVD player was a pittance. And given that all I really want to do is watch movies at home on a big screen in high definition with surround sound, It was the right thing to do. I would hate to have to miss out on those movies that are only released in one format. Other than a little money, I have nothing personally at stake in this so-called war. There are so many more important things to take a "moral" stand on.

This is all about the FUN. Feeling like you have to stick it to one set of guys or the other or getting all uptight when you perceive your "team" to suffer a setback must really take the fun out of it.

Just my 2 cents.

Jon Steinhauer

[Joe Cain]

I'm sorry your high definition experience in surround sound won't be in high definition surround sound, as the HD-DVD format struggles to keep up with its technical demands. But enjoy your Blu-Ray player!

[Marcusarilius]

[QUOTE=jsteinhauer;235539]I am wondering why there are so many axes to grind and why there are such entrenched camps surrounding this format war.

In the spring, I finally had enough money on hand after obligations to go and buy some nice home theater hardware (52" XBR2 LCD, AV receiver, 6.1 speakers, DVR, and a Sony Bluray player). But after all of that, a few hundred extra bucks for a HDDVD player was a pittance. And given that all I really want to do is watch movies at home on a big screen in high definition with surround sound, It was the right thing to do. I would hate to have to miss out on those movies that are only released in one format. Other than a little money, I have nothing personally at stake in this so-called war. There are so many more important things to take a "moral" stand on.

This is all about the FUN. Feeling like you have to stick it to one set of guys or the other or getting all uptight when you perceive your "team" to suffer a setback must really take the fun out of it.
I understand what you are say 100%. The only drawback to supporting HD DVD is that it supports and encourages studios like Warner to release HD disks in both formats and sense HD DVD cannot support the Higher SQ quality that Blu is capable of, blu ends up getting only DD 5.1 on BD. The higher capable format gets screwed down to HD DVD's level on SQ.

[Pilam69]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

I am wondering why there are so many axes to grind and why there are such entrenched camps surrounding this format war.

In the spring, I finally had enough money on hand after obligations to go and buy some nice home theater hardware (52" XBR2 LCD, AV receiver, 6.1 speakers, DVR, and a Sony Bluray player). But after all of that, a few hundred extra bucks for a HDDVD player was a pittance. And given that all I really want to do is watch movies at home on a big screen in high definition with surround sound, It was the right thing to do. I would hate to have to miss out on those movies that are only released in one format. Other than a little money, I have nothing personally at stake in this so-called war. There are so many more important things to take a "moral" stand on.

This is all about the FUN. Feeling like you have to stick it to one set of guys or the other or getting all uptight when you perceive your "team" to suffer a setback must really take the fun out of it.

Just my 2 cents.

Jon Steinhauer

For the studios it's pure money, plain and simple. There can be no dispute that the studios will sell their soul for money, see Paramount.

For the rest of us, we don't want to be wrong. No one likes to be told their product is inferior so the HD-Blah camp has a huge inferiority complex. For the Blu-Ray camp it is just simply that we don't want to be told we have made a wrong choice. What usually happens when people don't want to be wrong? They argue that their position is right. Hence the vitriol and anger you see constantly on this and other boards, see AVS.

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by Pilam69

For the studios it's pure money, plain and simple. There can be no dispute that the studios will sell their soul for money, see Paramount.

For the rest of us, we don't want to be wrong. No one likes to be told their product is inferior so the HD-Blah camp has a huge inferiority complex. For the Blu-Ray camp it is just simply that we don't want to be told we have made a wrong choice. What usually happens when people don't want to be wrong? They argue that their position is right. Hence the vitriol and anger you see constantly on this and other boards, see AVS.

Who wants to be wrong with a superior product and technology does not apply to blu vs. HD DVD. The attitude of us vs. them, right or wrong is somewhat juvenile. The anger displayed on threads needs to be terminated once and for all. Not to say we should not display opinions, but they can be related in a much more constructive fashion than has been evident of late.

[Lee Christie]

Originally Posted by ben7ben3

But from your argument, if you pick the losing side, which COULD be blu ray, then you are out an entire collection...

Actually you misunderstand, if you pick one format you ARE gambling... but I didn't state that because it's a given.

The point I was trying to make is that dual-format it NOT the safe option, it's the garenteed to lose option. The safe option is DVD. (but of course people on this forum tend not to be going for the safe option because we're early adopters)

So if you want to be safe, stick with SD til it's decided, if you want to risk it, pick an HD side, you MIGHT be right.

[jsteinhauer]

Suppose we all lose.

Since early adopters are not the ones who will decide the outcome, and since early adopters are obviously those who are most interest in having the highest quality image and sound, I think there is a pretty good chance that both formats will be short timers. Average joe doesn't buy discs of any kind and may decide that on demand streaming movies are the way to go; it requires little investment in hardware. I think this is especially possible, since the HD format discs and players seem to be much less tolerant of scratches and such on the discs than standard DVDs; the movie renter will not be happy with unplayable movies due to wear and tear.

For those wanting a HD player and not wanting to commit yet, I would recommend hanging on to your SD DVD player, if you only get one HD player. I have found that some SD DVDs with a little wear will play only in the Bluray player and others will play only in the HDDVD player.

Jon Steinhauer

[Joe Cain]

I think this is especially possible, since the HD format discs and players seem to be much less tolerant of scratches and such on the discs than standard DVDs; the movie renter will not be happy with unplayable movies due to wear and tear.

I'm not speaking from personal experience as I haven't owned my BDs long enough to torture them properly---

---but I've read that BDs are actually considerably more wear-resistant than standard DVDs. Anyone got linkage to back that up?

[dadkins]

*IF* my choice(Blu) does not win, I still didn't lose.
In the time Blu-ray has been out, there are quite a few BDs out there that I can buy(retail) or find on eBay, and/or swap with other BD viewers.

There are WAY more BDs out there than I will ever want to watch...
Plus, this machine does an exceptional job with "normal" DVDs.

We will dismiss all the USB 2.0 ports/Firewire, and the likelyhood of available "Other Guy" drives if "they" should win.

Also, since this thing *IS* fully HDCP - I am not worried either way.

But we all know, Blu is the best!

[jsteinhauer]

My experience is not from discs owned, as I care very well for them. It is from rentals in both formats. I'm not a collector and don't buy a lot of movies, only those I know I will watch more than once. LOTR, Mad Max trilogy, Matrix, Flash Gordon, South Park in SD, for example.

[soniqstylz]

Originally Posted by Lee Christie

Because say you were to buy a combo player, ignoring the fact its increadably expensive, say you bought about 50 Blu-ray Discs, and 50 HD DVDs, then when the war is won you'll have 50 usless discs.

Why?... Because even though you currently own a player for them, it'll be unsupported, start to become old and ugly, and when it breaks down you'll have trouble finding a replacment device that reads the losing format. (ever tried to find a Betamax player?... well I haven't but I'm guessing it's difficult)

So I'd say, either pick a camp or stick to DVDs. That's just my opinion.

I'm not sure that's really true. I would agree that the combo players right now are more expensive than buying a Blu-Ray player and an HD-DVD player seperatly.

However, if you don't pick a side, get a combo player, and help... what's the word I'm looking for... subsidize HD-DVD, you simply prolong the so-called "format war".


To Joe Cain: It's called Durabis - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durabis

[Lee Christie]

Originally Posted by soniqstylz

I'm not sure that's really true. I would agree that the combo players right now are more expensive than buying a Blu-Ray player and an HD-DVD player seperatly.

I said meant that buying a combo player (or for that matter one of each) is more expansive than buying one Blu-ray player OR (not and) one HD-DVD player.

[Vonscoot]

Originally Posted by Lee Christie

Actually you misunderstand, if you pick one format you ARE gambling... but I didn't state that because it's a given.

The point I was trying to make is that dual-format it NOT the safe option, it's the garenteed to lose option. The safe option is DVD. (but of course people on this forum tend not to be going for the safe option because we're early adopters)

So if you want to be safe, stick with SD til it's decided, if you want to risk it, pick an HD side, you MIGHT be right.

Well said. Keep in mind, supporting both HD formats for the long-term (which is what will happen if sides are not chosen) will require upkeep of 2 seperate players or one combo player which (correct me if I'm wrong here) does not support all of the current capabilities of either format.

If you're unsure which format will prevail or don't want the expense or hassle of supporting both, stick with SD until a clear winner emerges.

[Lee Christie]

To be honest, I KNOW my BD-ROM drive will be a piece of junk in a few years anyway. Why? Because it'll be old and they'll have newer, faster models available as a quarter of the price.

Don't be fooled by the expense of shelling out for a player: It's NOT really buying the player that commits you to a format, it's building a library of discs. The more discs you have for the format which eventually loses, the bigger a hit you take.

Asuming Blu-ray wins*.... Someone who hedges their bets with with 50 BDs and 25 HD DVDs has a bigger loss than a devout HD DVD fan with only 10 HD DVDs because it's the number of useless discs you have, the player doesn't really matter. So whats the REAL message here? If you want to be safe buy as few hi-def discs as posable (zero), if you want to gamble (so you may or may not lose.. hopefully not) buy only one kind, if you want to ensure that definently lose out then buy both.

*edit: so you don't think my argument relies on blu-ray winning, swap Blu-ray with HD DVD in that last paragraph and the argument is still valid either way around.

But then again, ther will be people reading this who are thinking "it's only money", in that case whatever, buy both and when one side loses, replace your discs. It's not the option *I* personally would go for but some people might. I'm not that rich, and if I chose wrong and Blu-ray loses, then I'll probably have to save up for a while before I can afford HD DVD copies of all of my BDs (and probably sell my BDs on eBay for £0.01 each), but hey, I took the gamble it's a fair cop.

[Whytewash]

Lets think worst case scenario. Lets imagine that blu loses this battle. Or maybe even a stalemate. what is the worst that could happen?

You end up with a HiDef TV, a HiDef Blu Ray player and some (if not all) of your collection you can and will always be able to view with perfect sound and audio.

How is this anything but win - win?

[darkpoet25]

A part of what got me into Blu Ray was the PS3. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. For many the PS2 was their introduction to DVD, myself included. Since the games are on BD's, even if the BD movie format may not win, the games will still be produced. Think of how many games that will take full advantage of this hardware. MGS4 will be a 1080p 50 gig game, the CE of Stranglehold will have a high def version of Hard Boiled on THE SAME DISC. Sony are not fools for having picked BD as a new format for their product. I realize the game issue isn't the main point of this thread, but I thought it was important nonetheless. I'm very happy with my purchase and even if it does lose, I will still have the many movies I plan to buy, and be able to still watch them. Look at a movie like Close Encounters, which will feature all three versions on a single 50 gig BD. Through seamless branching this was possible, yet it would take more than one disc for Hd Dvd, due to technical limitations. As many problems as Hd Dvd is having with a dual layer, just imagine what will happen if/when they introduce a TRIPLE layer 51 gig disc. I am confident in my decision to go with Blu Ray. Most of my favortie movies will be on this format. GO BLU RAY!!!!

[Lee Christie]

Originally Posted by darkpoet25

I am confident in my decision to go with Blu Ray. Most of my favortie movies will be on this format. GO BLU RAY!!!!

Same here, except with Universal stopping me from having Blu-ray Shawn of the Dead and Hott Fuzz, the defection of Paramount meaning another chunk of good films and shows gone such as Star Trek, and the fact that Warner are still sitting on their butts with The Matrix for no good reason (a release date PLEASE!!!).

But yeh I'm still happy with my choice and although i'm not a Playstation fan, I have a suspision that PS3s will have their part to play in winning the battle for us just as I think the PS2 greatly speed up the uptake of DVD (although again, for me I had a standalone player and a DVD-ROM drive on my PC, I don't have a PS2) I know a heck of a lot of people who love Playstation.

Originally Posted by Whytewash

Lets think worst case scenario. Lets imagine that blu loses this battle. Or maybe even a stalemate. what is the worst that could happen?

You end up with a HiDef TV, a HiDef Blu Ray player and some (if not all) of your collection you can and will always be able to view with perfect sound and audio.

How is this anything but win - win?

Think about the future, in a few years you buy a new HD DVD player but you can't find a blu-ray player, you have to lug around that old rusty Blu-ray (or combo) player for the rest of your life (or until you chuck out your Blu-ray Discs and rebuy them as HD DVD)

But again, like I said if you only care about the present, not the future, then by all means go dual format.. it's not for me though.

[mrb820]

Originally Posted by Gremal

Yes, I mean YOU. All of us who own blu-ray discs are early adopters.

If you've never been an early adopter before, you might not know that:

* Product doesn't always materialize when you'd like it to.

* Format wars aren't won overnight.

* Release dates are subject to change.

* Retail store clerks often seem clueless about the product or title you're interested in.

* Distributors are sometimes late with new releases.

* Product may even be faulty/have quality control issues.

That's all NORMAL. If you can't deal with it, you have no business being an early adopter of any format or new technology. For those of you who are running around like chickens with your heads cut off, freaking out over every delayed title or bump in the road, stop and think for a minute. Ask yourself if you're really cut out to be an early adopter. If so, please use a more rational, long-term perspective of the first few years of Blu-ray rollout. If you can't see that perspective, maybe you're not cut out to be an early adopter. Most people are not.

Early adopters have to deal with higher prices, market uncertainty, technological glitches and cancelled or delayed releases. Again, that's NORMAL. Those who can't deal with such problems should focus on a mature technology that's been around for a decade or more like DVD or CD. The release dates rarely change, prices are low and there is no format war for you to stress over.

Finnally, someone who understans me !