Disney Disney Disney

[Lnds500]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

Did anyone notice there is a bit of a color change in cinderella at least comparing the Platinum edition trailer to a Diamond edition clip?

[Show spoiler] Cinderella Diamond Edition "The Other Slipper" Clip - YouTube
Cinderella (Platinum Edition) Fall 2005 Trailer - YouTube

The Platinum trailer used an older transfer and the Diamond trailer uses the Platinum transfer. I have compared my platinum copy to the diamond trailer and the colors are the same (unfortunately)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by HarryPotterGrl10

And Mermaid DID indeed start the Disney Renaissance.....do some research, why don't you?

Declarative statements shouldn't end with a question mark, even if they contain the word "why". It weakens the punch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCNI...layer_embedded

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by PuppyJonathan

Little Mermaid was the starting line, Roger Rabbit proved that there can be a starting line

An American Tail proved that there could be a starting line -- that and all those yummy, lucrative sell-through home video sales.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

Did anyone notice there is a bit of a color change in cinderella at least comparing the Platinum edition trailer to a Diamond edition clip?

[Show spoiler] Cinderella Diamond Edition "The Other Slipper" Clip - YouTube
Cinderella (Platinum Edition) Fall 2005 Trailer - YouTube

If Fantasia and Pinocchio are any indication, I'd expect some "co-creativity" as it comes to the color timing for the Blu-Ray release.

[PuppyJonathan]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

An American Tail proved that there could be a starting line -- that and all those yummy, lucrative sell-through home video sales.

Ok so An American Tail proved there could be a starting line, VHS sales bought the starting line, Roger Rabbit set up the starting line, and Little Mermaid was the first to cross it? Where are we supposed to put the Secret of NIMH?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by PuppyJonathan

Ok so An American Tail proved there could be a starting line, VHS sales bought the starting line, Roger Rabbit set up the starting line, and Little Mermaid was the first to cross it? Where are we supposed to put the Secret of NIMH?

It bombed, but people loved it when they saw it on Showtime and later airings on cable.

Well, people who didn't read O'Briens novel loved it. As a 12 year-old, I was in for a penny and a pound until that whole "Magic Amulet" business.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

It bombed, but people loved it when they saw it on Showtime and later airings on cable.
Well, people who didn't read O'Briens novel loved it.

NIMH didn't "bomb", either, at least not in the "Pebble & the Penguin" sense--
Just that animation was at a low point in '82, people noticed non-Disney animateds even less than they noticed Disney animateds (the Care Bears/Chipmunks push wouldn't happen for another two years)--And what open-minded parent audiences DID go to see it gushed over how "old-fashioned Disney" it was, and tried to rub it in Fox & the Hound's face for spite.
And while I'll also blame soundtrack sales, think it was people wishfully expecting to see NIMH II that caused all the delayed-reaction gushing over American Tail four years later--ISTR Siskel & Ebert loathed Bluth's out-of-touch direction on Tail.

[nf0603]

Originally Posted by HarryPotterGrl10

Umm, there's LOTS of sequences in Mermaid that could benefit from 3D: The entire undersea environment for one; the storm; Ariel becoming human; the final fight; the wedding, etc.

And please, you are SOO wrong about Mermaid being inferior to Fantasia in video sales; etc. The Platinum Edition release of Mermaid was the HIGHEST-selling platinum release, EVER, up till that point.

As for theatrical gross, Fantasia's TOTAL box office earn is :$83,320,000. Mermaid's is
$211,343,479. I think we know the winner here. (And it ain't Fantasia!) (Source: Wikipedia pages for both.)

And as for critical reception, Mermaid was VERY highly praised, and still continues to be for this day. When Fantasia was first released, it had mixed. Mermaid had high praise.

So please, you are delusional if you think that Mermaid isn't superior to Fantasia, which it clearly is.

I am actually not a big Fantasia fan. But comparing its box office gross from the 40's to 1990 against The Little Mermaid's gross from 1989 and its 1998 reissue is unfair. You are aware of a little something called inflation, right? By your logic, The Avengers has sold more movie tickets than Gone With The Wind and Star Wars as well, right? Tickets sold is different than box office gross. No doubt that The Little Mermaid was a HUGELY SUCCESSFUL MOVIE that jump-started the Disney renaissance, but Fantasia sold the majority of its tickets at a time when movie tickets were drastically cheaper than they were even in 1989.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by EricJ

NIMH didn't "bomb", either, at least not in the "Pebble & the Penguin" sense--
Just that animation was at a low point in '82, people noticed non-Disney animateds even less than they noticed Disney animateds (the Care Bears/Chipmunks push wouldn't happen for another two years)--And what open-minded parent audiences DID go to see it gushed over how "old-fashioned Disney" it was, and tried to rub it in Fox & the Hound's face for spite.
And while I'll also blame soundtrack sales, think it was people wishfully expecting to see NIMH II that caused all the delayed-reaction gushing over American Tail four years later--ISTR Siskel & Ebert loathed Bluth's out-of-touch direction on Tail.

It bombed.

[taei]

You also need to think about children today.

I don't think a child today would be willing to sit through an hour of fantasia because they would be bored. I should know, my little brother has been raised like a 90's kid, and me and my sister have tried to make him watch fantasia.. He's only seen it once, and said that he doesn't want to watch the whole movie again. Compared to The Little mermaid, he watched that movie more than a 100 times...

When it comes down to it, children would want to see 'Under the Sea and Kiss the Girl (AKA Sebastian' than a movie who is famous for being artistic and doesn't have dialogue.

[celticmoon]

I don't know... To me, it actually seems like, in general, children are more likely to enjoy Fantasia than the average adult viewer. (Based on people around me; obviously not scientific/statistical in any way.) I think that, whereas we as teens and adults come to expect dialogue of some sort to accompany the picture and to help keep our interest piqued, smaller children can easily fall into wonder just with the moving picture and music/sounds.

And let's just forget about box office numbers. Honestly, I think box office can only be fairly compared with other films within a similar time frame. For example, obviously you can't just simply say The Little Mermaid was more successful than Fantasia because it made more in terms of number of dollars. 1989/1997 dollars were clearly worth more than most of the dollars that Fantasia ever made. But, on the other hand, you also can't say that Fantasia was more successful because it sold more tickets and made more money when adjusted for inflation. Fantasia had many, many runs--moreso than the two that The Little Mermaid had--and many of those runs came during a time when there was much less media to be preoccupied with when compared with The Little Mermaid's initial and second run. (And there are just countlessly more things to be preoccupied with today when compared to 1989.) Additionally, the "adjusted" numbers for older movies can not be taken at face value--there is a lot of guess work involved due to most of them being released many, many times over the years, as well as the fact that such data was not documented nearly as thoroughly in the past as it has been for the past couple of decades.

Honestly, both are very important films and both continue to be culturally relevant today, though in different ways. I'd say, in terms of general mainstream popularity, The Little Mermaid fairly easily beats out Fantasia today, as it is more tailored to modern sensibilities. However, Fantasia remains one of Disney's crowning achievements, and is probably more important in the historic/academic sense.

[yumny]

Originally Posted by taei

You also need to think about children today.

I don't think a child today would be willing to sit through an hour of fantasia because they would be bored. I should know, my little brother has been raised like a 90's kid, and me and my sister have tried to make him watch fantasia.. He's only seen it once, and said that he doesn't want to watch the whole movie again. Compared to The Little mermaid, he watched that movie more than a 100 times...

When it comes down to it, children would want to see 'Under the Sea and Kiss the Girl (AKA Sebastian' than a movie who is famous for being artistic and doesn't have dialogue.

People, this is a no-brainer; Fantasia is not a kids movie.
If you look at the Wikipedia entry, you'll see tons of people from the 1960s and before talking about how they had to sit through it and didn't really appreciate it until they were older. Fantasia not being enjoyed by children is not specific to any generation; it's just very obvious fact, since it's such a heavy, long, and artistic film that uses classical music.

I was an exception myself tho, my family rented Fantasia for my sister and me when I was 4 and I remember enjoying it. Night on Bald Mountain scared the living crap out of me, although.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by taei

You also need to think about children today.

I don't think a child today would be willing to sit through an hour of fantasia because they would be bored. I should know, my little brother has been raised like a 90's kid, and me and my sister have tried to make him watch fantasia.. He's only seen it once, and said that he doesn't want to watch the whole movie again. Compared to The Little mermaid, he watched that movie more than a 100 times...

When it comes down to it, children would want to see 'Under the Sea and Kiss the Girl (AKA Sebastian' than a movie who is famous for being artistic and doesn't have dialogue.

Fantasia isn't appropriate for children, never has been. It has some child-friendly sequences, but also has sequences that scare kids blind. It takes a more mature mind to appreciate it in the first place.

[taei]

Originally Posted by yumny

People, this is a no-brainer; Fantasia is not a kids movie.
If you look at the Wikipedia entry, you'll see tons of people from the 1960s and before talking about how they had to sit through it and didn't really appreciate it until they were older. Fantasia not being enjoyed by children is not specific to any generation; it's just very obvious fact, since it's such a heavy, long, and artistic film that uses classical music.

I was an exception myself tho, my family rented Fantasia for my sister and me when I was 4 and I remember enjoying it. Night on Bald Mountain scared the living crap out of me, although.

If I remember clearly, Hunchback isn't as well.. But I think Hunchback did get a lot of media coverage because how mature it was.

EDIT: Added press:

The studio’s newest animated release, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, shows, says USA Today, that Disney animation has “gone adult.” Overt sexuality is now mixed with Disney’s legendary musical scores and magical animation. Alan Menken, composer of the Hunchback score, told USA Today, “In one song we have (a character) sing the church liturgy but also sing of twisted sexual fantasies.”

TIME declared that Hunchback is “teeming with treachery and lust.”

Source

[yumny]

Originally Posted by taei

If I remember clearly, Hunchback isn't as well.. But I think Hunchback did get a lot of media coverage because how mature it was.

EDIT: Added press:





Source

Yes, HonD is dark and mature, but you could show it to kids just fine, they won't get the "lust" thing. Plus, it has a happy ending, the villain ends up dead, there's funny sidekicks and the story has some fun moments as well. It's a coherent story, not a moving painting to classical music like Fantasia.

[disneyfreak]

Originally Posted by yumny

I still cannot comprehend they took the time and effort to transfer Pocahontas II to Blu-Ray quality. It's not only the story, the animation is also just plain.. bad, and VERY crude. Icky icky icky.

They don't have to take the time, toon boom studios has all of their films digital, they just have to transfer it.

[anthonyb]

Originally Posted by HarryPotterGrl10

Umm, there's LOTS of sequences in Mermaid that could benefit from 3D: The entire undersea environment for one; the storm; Ariel becoming human; the final fight; the wedding, etc.

And please, you are SOO wrong about Mermaid being inferior to Fantasia in video sales; etc. The Platinum Edition release of Mermaid was the HIGHEST-selling platinum release, EVER, up till that point.

As for theatrical gross, Fantasia's TOTAL box office earn is :$83,320,000. Mermaid's is
$211,343,479. I think we know the winner here. (And it ain't Fantasia!) (Source: Wikipedia pages for both.)

And as for critical reception, Mermaid was VERY highly praised, and still continues to be for this day. When Fantasia was first released, it had mixed. Mermaid had high praise.

So please, you are delusional if you think that Mermaid isn't superior to Fantasia, which it clearly is.

Um...I think you have the gross a bit off...check the "Top Grossing G Rated Movies" list, adjusted for inflation of course; Fantasia is at 7th, while Mermaid is at 42nd.
Fantasia has a 7.8 rating on IMBD, while Mermaid has a 7.5.
ON RT, Fantasia has a 98% rating, Mermaid has 90%. (not that these two are credible sources on how good a movie is)
...or am I just delusional? However, consider that these are completely different films (viewed in isolation, they could have been made by completely different studios), so comparing the two as equals is a bit futile.

[yumny]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

They don't have to take the time, toon boom studios has all of their films digital, they just have to transfer it.

Right, slipped my mind.

Originally Posted by anthonyb

Um...I think you have the gross a bit off...check the "Top Grossing G Rated Movies" list, adjusted for inflation of course; Fantasia is at 7th, while Mermaid is at 42nd.
Fantasia has a 7.8 rating on IMBD, while Mermaid has a 7.5.
ON RT, Fantasia has a 98% rating, Mermaid has 90%. (not that these two are credible sources on how good a movie is)
...or am I just delusional? However, consider that these are completely different films (viewed in isolation, they could have been made by completely different studios), so comparing the two as equals is a bit futile.

+1, comparing Fantasia and Mermaid is like comparing cheese to chairs. Two radically different movies. Neither is better than the other. I personally prefer Mermaid because it has a cohesive story, but if I sit down and take some time, I get really immersed by Fantasia, caught up in the artistry, and I'll immensely respect and enjoy it. I did on my last viewing.

[PuppyJonathan]

Originally Posted by anthonyb

Um...I think you have the gross a bit off...check the "Top Grossing G Rated Movies" list, adjusted for inflation of course; Fantasia is at 7th, while Mermaid is at 42nd.
Fantasia has a 7.8 rating on IMBD, while Mermaid has a 7.5.
ON RT, Fantasia has a 98% rating, Mermaid has 90%. (not that these two are credible sources on how good a movie is)
...or am I just delusional? However, consider that these are completely different films (viewed in isolation, they could have been made by completely different studios), so comparing the two as equals is a bit futile.

Rotten Tomatoes is NOT credible, IMDB is

[The Blu Knight]

Originally Posted by HarryPotterGrl10

So please, you are delusional if you think that Mermaid isn't superior to Fantasia, which it clearly is.

On the basis of initial success then quite obviously, however on the basis of the merit of the film itself I could say the same about you.

Originally Posted by taei

You also need to think about children today.

I don't think a child today would be willing to sit through an hour of fantasia because they would be bored. I should know, my little brother has been raised like a 90's kid, and me and my sister have tried to make him watch fantasia.. He's only seen it once, and said that he doesn't want to watch the whole movie again. Compared to The Little mermaid, he watched that movie more than a 100 times...

When it comes down to it, children would want to see 'Under the Sea and Kiss the Girl (AKA Sebastian' than a movie who is famous for being artistic and doesn't have dialogue.

That all depends. I was a 90s kid and I remember watching Fantasia often on my own accord. I loved it as much then as I do now even if I can appreciate it more now. It is an enchanting, profound experience and I heavily attribute it with my fascination with and appreciation for animation, classical music and music in general, and history, especially dinosaurs when I was little. I don't find it so hard to imagine any other child today not solely raised by the boob tube being capable of finding meaning in it as well. Perhaps I give a child's mind too much credit, but I think most people don't give it enough.