Some players might need firmware update to play Spider-Man 3 on Blu-ray

[ryoohki]

Originally Posted by bootman

I hate to sound like a snob, but IMO the fact that the best Blu player is still found at Toys-R-Us is not a good thing!

Think of it from a marketing perspective.
The general public still thinks of the PS3 as nothing more than a toy.
(I know its not reality, but in marketing perception is reality)

We need serious standard format players that work flawlessly.
The new Elite player appears to be one of them.
I'm sure there are more to come.

We have to think big picture.
As much as Sony would love to have a PS3 in every household, this is not how we make Blu mainstream.
I'm sure Sony agrees or else they wouldn't make standalones also.

It simply won't BD-J is basically an OS, a full fledge programming language like C++ that execute codes.

HD DVD have 1 CE, Toshiba, all other model are made by them and all their OS run the same software and they use XML witch is like DVD a little, it use predefined codes that is stored in a CHIP. So it's locked and all model work great for that, but you're stuck with it for the rest of it's life.

That the advantage of having 1 manifacturer doing you're stuff. On Blu-Ray you have all those CE making their own OS to run BD-J. Like we know there's no OS in the world that run without montly updates.

DVD didn't have that because it was simple query and have a very limited fonctionnality, the most advance one is the fact that it can remember last played chapter when you watch a special feature but can't do anything for Games and that stuff that use logic

[bootman]

Originally Posted by ryoohki

It simply won't BD-J is basically an OS, a full fledge programming language like C++ that execute codes.

HD DVD have 1 CE, Toshiba, all other model are made by them and all their OS run the same software and they use XML witch is like DVD a little, it use predefined codes that is stored in a CHIP. So it's locked and all model work great for that, but you're stuck with it for the rest of it's life.

That the advantage of having 1 manifacturer doing you're stuff. On Blu-Ray you have all those CE making their own OS to run BD-J. Like we know there's no OS in the world that run without montly updates.

DVD didn't have that because it was simple query and have a very limited fonctionnality, the most advance one is the fact that it can remember last played chapter when you watch a special feature but can't do anything for Games and that stuff that use logic

I get all that. I know the technical reasons why this is so.
The problem is the GP perception on the whole deal.

Here is an example of what I mean:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=925501

[Joe Cain]

What can be done? HD-DVD was a "finished" product with finalized specs and those players are still needing firmware updates. Eventually BD will mature and become a stable format, but it's much too early in its lifespan to expect that now. Public perception is a problem, I guess, but anyone who's buying in now is still an early adopter and should educate themselves about the baggage that entails. This is one of the reasons that I believe it's good prices aren't cheap: it's not a mass market format yet, it shouldn't be priced as one or adopted as one. Caveat Emptor.

[Frode]

Originally Posted by BLU STEAL

they should start including the firmware updates on the movie disc like they do with some games. That way alot of these problems can be avoided.

We've asked about this (see the insiders' thread). It's not going to happen. The fact is that most of these problems stem from people having to write firmware based on specifications only. That means they're making their own test cases and the like. Then the studios come along and use functions that are according to the spec, but do it in a way the firmware writer didn't think of, which leads to compatibility issues. It happens a lot more often in the early days of a format, like now, than once product has been in the market place for a while. BDs and HD DVDs are also a lot more complex than DVDs to begin with so there's a lot more that can go wrong.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

What can be done? HD-DVD was a "finished" product with finalized specs and those players are still needing firmware updates. [/I]

This is where I think HD-DVD got it "right" with mandating an ethernet port.
They had just as many (probable more) firmware updates as bluray players have. However, I bet that a lot of those updates were easier to deal with since they could easily load them to their players without burning disks.

This would help "hide" all of this from your typical user.
Profile 2.0 can't get here fast enough.

[Joe Cain]

Are you saying HD-DVD players can automatically detect, download, and install updates without prompting the user or requiring any user interaction? I've not heard that.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

Are you saying HD-DVD players can automatically detect, download, and install updates without prompting the user or requiring any user interaction? I've not heard that.

Not that seemless yet.
(Although the xbox 360 add on and the ps3 kind of do this now.)
Looking at what I wrote, I will edit that so that is not what wanted to say)
But is there a reason it couldn't be?
As much trouble as Samsung's been having, I've read that their players have alerted them that an update was available for download.
(if you had the player hooked up to the internet)

This is going in the right direction with an automatic type of update system if you wanted to go that route.

[jorg]

Originally Posted by BStecke

Found this at AVS:
From AVRev: (see thread elsewhere here where this has been confirmed by Samsung P1400 owners)

"Spider-man 3 on Blu-ray is one of the Holiday season’s most highly anticipated releases on the 1080p high definition Blu-ray format but early adopters may have problems playing the disc in many of today’s Blu-ray players.

Using a review copy of "Spider-man 3" on Blu-ray on local tests at AVRev.com, the disc struggled to play in the brand new Samsung BD-P1400. After an excruciatingly long load-up time, the disc starts to freeze and skip from the very start. Audio dropping out, picture stuttering, you name it. Compared to the mainstream consumer’s expectation for DVD playback, most couldn’t make it to the actual film.

According to various reports, other players including units from Sony, Pioneer and other stand-alone Blu-ray players are reportedly having issues with the blockbuster and feature laden HD release.

Playstation 3 does come to the rescue. The game machine plays the disc like a champ. Although one of the first Blu-ray players on the market, the Sony Playstation 3 is without question the most reliable Blu-ray player on the market. While a game machine isn’t suited for many home theater applications, the lack of format incompatibilities paired with a low entry price makes the Playstation 3 the way many enthusiasts test the waters in a ferocious HD disc format war.

The release of Spider-man 3 on Blu-ray isn’t the first time that new blockbuster Blu-ray title has failed to play on existing machines. When "Pirates Of The Caribbean" 1 and 2 were released by Disney/Buena Vista, there was hardly a player out that could play the movies. All the first generation Blu-ray players required an immediate firmware update which requires a DVD-R disc being burnt on a PC and run on a machine or the units to be connected directly to the Internet. Each and every one of the AVRev.com reviewers and editors who were using the Samsung BDP-1000 were unable to play new Pirates Blu-ray discs without the firmware update. The new BD-Java encoding of disc (which was necessary for the interactive Liar's Dice game) ironically prevented the movie from playing. So a consumer pays $30 for a disc to watch the movie, and the bonus features of the disc make it not play at all. How intuitive is that?

"Pirates Of The Caribbean" wasn’t the end of Blu-ray titles being released and failing in many of the early players. Most recently, FOX released "The Day After Tomorrow" and "Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer" on Blu-ray. Both of these titles played on less than a handful of the players out there. Again, now it was the BD+ encoding of these discs reportedly that affected successful playback. A firmware update was needed by Samsung for the BDP-1000, which reportedly loaded the movie in an agonizing five plus minutes and then played the movie with more than its fair share of jitter, skipping, and freezing. The Samsung BD-P1200 reportedly did not play the movies at all. After inserting either of the discs, a screen appeared that stated the player could not play the discs and that a firmware upgrade was needed. Some of the newer players did better with the Fox and Disney titles. Playstation 3 still remains the most stable of the available players.

Consumers are struggling to understand why they need an HD disc player when DVDs work perfectly well in their systems. The difference between DVD and HD discs need to be seen and heard and then the upgrade is obvious. What is also obvious is the need for the Blu-ray camp to get their standards more stable so that studios can release top titles that work with relatively manageable number of Blu-ray players on the market. While the Playstation 3 is a tempting audience – it's not the only audience. A guy who drops $799 on a "top of the line" Blu-ray player, hooks it up via HDMI and is looking to the best video currently available doesn’t want to hear that his player won't play that latest disc or that he needs to spend hours burning and running firmware update discs before he can watch a new Blu-ray film."




I think it's pretty reasonable to assume a firmware update would be needed. However, I don't understand everybody *****ing when they have the movie almost two weeks in advance. These companies know the street date is the 30th, and know their updates don't have to be available until then. Gotta love premature consclusions.

the brand new sammy1400wasent that brought out like 6 months ago and do we even have to start talking about hd dvd and there children of men and all those things?

[Joe Cain]

I liked the title of this thread better when it was "Premature *****ing..."

[johnhood]

My copy of the Spider-Man Trilogy arrived yesterday and it's a great showcase for the power and versatility of the PS3!

[kaliraver]

The title os the thread is very, very misleading. How can this be considered many players when it is supposedly just the BD-P1400 that is having this so called issue? I'll believe it when I see a video on youtube or something that it in fact is having issues. How come no one from Europe has complained about SP3 not playing on their P1400? I think the mods need to change the name of the thread.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by kaliraver69

The title os the thread is very, very misleading. How can this be considered many players when it is supposedly just the BD-P1400 that is having this so called issue? ....

Precisely. To quote myself:

Originally Posted by RUR

OK, let's gather some data...

Samsung BD-P1000 is reported to have no problems on any SM movie - latest firmware (Badboi)
Samsung BD-P1400 is reported to lockup at branching points on SM2 - firmware rev unknown (a few AVS posters, including Robert George)
Phillips is reported to have no problems with SM1,2,3 (BigDad @ AVS)

Anyone else who can add to this?

We need reports from users of other players, but based on reports so far, it's only the 1400 having problems and only on SM2 (if we set aside the AVRev post).

[Derrickpetr]

Originally Posted by badboi

Someone at AVS posted where this "news flash" originated from, and I went over there to check it out. It should be taken with a very big grain of salt, and consider the village idiots who started it. Don't believe me? Look at post #4.

http://www.avrevforum.com/showthread.php?t=906

Sony Vaio Support informed me that there are knowen issues ( in my case a black screen) with playback of Spiderman 3 (Blu-ray) on their XGX-XL302 and I must await an update later this month - Try calling them?

[Frode]

Which Blu-ray players don't have an ethernet port?

BTW. just because HD DVD mandates the player having one, doesn't mean the customer's actually hooked it up to the internet. That's why it's IMO it's not "mandatory", it's just as "optional" as the ones on BD players.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Frode

Which Blu-ray players don't have an ethernet port?

According to this list almost 1/2 of them don't!

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=16293

Note: I'm not counting the PS3 and the dual players because they have to have one.

[HDPlasma]

Originally Posted by Frode

Which Blu-ray players don't have an ethernet port?

BTW. just because HD DVD mandates the player having one, doesn't mean the customer's actually hooked it up to the internet. That's why it's IMO it's not "mandatory", it's just as "optional" as the ones on BD players.

You will also see the majority of people at AVS do the .iso update method compared to doing the Ethernet update on HD DVD players. I believe most people don't have an Ethernet connection next to their AV setup and it's too much trouble to unplug everything and get it near their Ethernet/Internet connection.

Not many Blu-ray players have Ethernet ports but it's nice that my BD-P1200 had it for the latest update. No downloading, burn and update or wait for the update disc in the mail.

Also, there's speculation that newer FW for HD DVD players will have "power-on demand" capabilities that will allow the player to be remotely turned on and updated over the Internet(while you are sleeping).
Sounds like a good idea for J6P but I'm not a fan of leaving the players backdoor open to the Internet and allowing people to turn it on and update it at will. Soon you'll need to install firewalls and virus protection for these players to keep hackers out.

[celle]

In Europe Spiderman is out and nobody here had problems with it... Spiderman plays fine in all BD-players here (Sony S1E/S300, Pioneer LX70, Pana DMP-BD10, Samsung BD-P1000/1400, PS3)...

[bootman]

Originally Posted by celle

In Europe Spiderman is out and nobody here had problems with it... Spiderman plays fine in all BD-players here (Sony S1E/S300, Pioneer LX70, Pana DMP-BD10, Samsung BD-P1000/1400, PS3)...

Great news!