iTunes extras finally on Apple TV

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Rik1138

What you are seeing now on AppleTV is what iTunes Extras is going to become on every device eventually. The downloadable ones with the unique menus and such will go away, and at some point new titles will never have them.

As for studios removing Extras later, keep in mind that a studio could simply decide that they don't want to sell their product through Apple at all, and pull everything. I doubt that would happen since the studios do make a fair amount of money off the iTunes store, but in the end you have to realize that if you aren't buying a physical copy, you can pretty much guarantee that at some point in the future you will no longer be able to play it, especially if you can't download it DRM free.

You never 'own' anything that's Cloud based regardless of how you paid for it.

I'm fine with the new style menus on the Apple TV. I greatly prefer the clean look.

Interesting enough, I can't see them on my PC because I'm still running iTunes 11.1. Because I can't upgrade to iTunes 11.3, I'm still getting the unique menus like before (I redownloaded a few titles that are apart of the new iTunes Extras and sure enough, still the same type of menus as before).

[BRH]

This is a game-changer for me. I'll still buy Blu-rays, as I love the physical format. But I'll probably now buy a lot more iTunes content (early releases especially) and wait for the inevitable steep price drop on the Blu.

One question (hopefully it hasn't been asked yet), do you only get the iTunes Extras for movies you BUY on iTunes (and not for those which you added to your iTunes collection via Blu-ray digital copy redemption)? I'm looking at some titles in my collection on my Apple TV 3 and seeing no extras listed. These are titles I thought came with extras when I originally redeemed the DC (specifically Uni titles like "Admission" and "About Time"). A couple of other titles I bought on iTunes ("Gravity" and "Argo: EE") are showing the extras.

[BRH]

Originally Posted by BRH

This is a game-changer for me. I'll still buy Blu-rays, as I love the physical format. But I'll probably now buy a lot more iTunes content (early releases especially) and wait for the inevitable steep price drop on the Blu.

One question (hopefully it hasn't been asked yet), do you only get the iTunes Extras for movies you BUY on iTunes (and not for those which you added to your iTunes collection via Blu-ray digital copy redemption)? I'm looking at some titles in my collection on my Apple TV 3 and seeing no extras listed. These are titles I thought came with extras when I originally redeemed the DC (specifically Uni titles like "Admission" and "About Time"). A couple of other titles I bought on iTunes ("Gravity" and "Argo: EE") are showing the extras.

Maybe I can answer my own question... I just checked "Bourne Legacy" (a title I redeemed in HD via Blu-ray DC code back when I bought it) and that has the extras. Weird that some of the DC-redeemed titles have the extras and some don't.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by BRH

Maybe I can answer my own question... I just checked "Bourne Legacy" (a title I redeemed in HD via Blu-ray DC code back when I bought it) and that has the extras. Weird that some of the DC-redeemed titles have the extras and some don't.

Yeah, that's been that way for a while. It just depends on the studio. Paramount and Universal seem to be pretty good at letting the customer have some of the extras that come with the Blu if they use the DC code with the Blu purchase.

Also, just figured it out that if you don't have iTunes 11.3, you don't get the new style iTunes Extras.

I purchased Robocop 2014 a few weeks back and at the time, it didn't come with Extras. Now it does so I went back to redownload the film on the my HDD and it wouldn't download the new extras.

If a film already had iTunes Extras, it'll let you redownload the extras in the old style if you're not running iTunes 11.3.

I gotta figure out why iTunes 11.3 won't install on this PC. I think the new style menus would me much, much better for the long term health of my PC. Besides, I'd greatly love to watch the iTunes Extras on my Apple TV through Home Sharing. That's the real catnip for me. Ugh. Why can't I upgrade?

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Rik1138

I haven't really looked at it in iTunes, but does that mean you just can't get iTunes Extras on the computer right now for that title? I didn't think the new version worked on iTunes yet, so the old versions were still available for download...

I think if a title offered old-style extras, you can still download them. In the Planet of the Apes collection, only the original 1968 movie had old-style extras and the other titles had none. Now they all have new-style extras and the 1968 movie has both. The new-style extras definitely work in iTunes 11.3.

I'm just pointing out that you aren't 'buying' it at all, you are 'renting' it. It might be a 'life time' (or 'as long as the company exists') rental, but it's still a 'rental'.

And I'm pointing out that the practical life time of your physical media is about the same. It doesn't last forever for a variety of reasons. My laserdisc players and VCRs died and the media is obsolete. My HD-DVDs were more of a rental than a purchase, too. Who cares if it's the studio that determines when a title stops working? If my dog scratches my DVD after I unwrap it, does that make it less of a purchase and more of a rental? Either way, I have to buy it again.

But I've bought UV movies. Those are perpetual licenses. Once the CFF is released, I can download a copy and won't have to worry if a movie is temporarily unavailable to stream. The license is good forever (or at least the lifetime of the player).

What happens if UV goes belly-up? I can still play the movies I bought. Even if a retailer goes out of business they're obligated to provide 5 years' of support.

None of this seems very different from the practical situation with physical media.

Of course they would, they don't care... Did you ever buy a DIVX DVD? They shut that whole system down without a care at all... 'Oh, you want still want to watch that movie? Buy another copy on a normal DVD.' Even if you have the player, you can't make it work now. (And that's just one example...) People complained and screamed, threatened to sue, etc... But they simply weren't going to keep the servers running for a format they no longer cared about.

Here's why they no longer cared about it: DIVX had terrible revenue numbers. It was used primarily for rentals, not purchases. Those 'people' were hardly anyone because they sold maybe 165k players. It was canned after a year. There were a lot more HD-DVD buyers (over 1M players sold) than DIVX and the practical outcome is the same for both. Good luck to the studio that decides to can their iTunes copies and their (inflated) hundreds of millions of customers. UV is smaller than iTunes but still far larger than any of previous electronic formats. It would be remarkable if the studios canned UV and provided no way forward for 17 million consumers (and counting), and would make selling a consumer on a new format nearly impossible. Then what?

What if Apple goes out of business?

I have 'digital copy' discs that came with Blu-rays just a few years ago that I can't load on my computer if I want to as there's no way to activate them anymore.

Did you fail to activate them before they expired?

[Rik1138]

Originally Posted by BRH

Maybe I can answer my own question... I just checked "Bourne Legacy" (a title I redeemed in HD via Blu-ray DC code back when I bought it) and that has the extras. Weird that some of the DC-redeemed titles have the extras and some don't.

I think it has to be a HD digital copy, that's the difference... I have several Disney movie digital copies from the Blu-ray (Bolt, Nightmare Before Christmas, Wall-E), and none of them will play the iTunes Extras.

I just activated my Frozen code (labelled as 'Digital HD Digital Copy'), and all the extras are playing now... I think the 'HD' digital copies are fairly new, but it seems that the Extras are tied to those. If you just buy an SD copy of a movie from the store, I don't think you will get the extras (at least, not the new version of them).

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

And I'm pointing out that the practical life time of your physical media is about the same. It doesn't last forever for a variety of reasons. My laserdisc players and VCRs died and the media is obsolete. My HD-DVDs were more of a rental than a purchase, too. Who cares if it's the studio that determines when a title stops working? If my dog scratches my DVD after I unwrap it, does that make it less of a purchase and more of a rental? Either way, I have to buy it again.

I guess that's the difference with people that fully embrace the digital streaming world. I don't think that way. My laserdisc players still work (I have several, mostly because I have laserdisc-based arcade machines, but even my consumer player works. If it breaks, I fix it.) My VCR still works, and has been working for nearly 20 years now.

Like I said, as long as you take care of the media, it'll last as long as you want it to last. You just apparently have a different definition of 'practical situation' than I do. I still use many forms of decades old media... Not as much as the modern stuff, but I still use it. And the point is that I can.

But everyone is different, and accepts different things. Some people are perfectly fine with only having digital versions of their media collections, other people want it all on physical media... Others are in the middle, either having both of everything, or physical for their favorites, digital for everything else... Nothing is right or wrong, I'm just personally not a fan of always having to be connected to the internet watch a movie...

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

Here's why they no longer cared about it: DIVX had terrible revenue numbers. It was used primarily for rentals, not purchases. Those 'people' were hardly anyone because they sold maybe 165k players. It was canned after a year. There were a lot more HD-DVD buyers (over 1M players sold) than DIVX and the practical outcome is the same for both.

Not even sure where you are going with this one... They actually produced nearly 1/2 million players, but I don't care WHY they canned it, the fact was that they DID. And afterwards, it was (is) _impossible_ to play the discs. HD-DVD players and discs still work fine, and will forever if someone wants them to.

I would love to have a working (hacked I guess would be the only way) DIVX player just to show people what it was... So many people don't even remember it (or never saw it working) that it would be kind of neat to have a working player now... It's fun showing people a CED and telling them that's it a movie on a _record_ played with an actual needle...

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

Did you fail to activate them before they expired?

That's exactly my point, they should never expire... (And, in the case of the two I tried, there were no expiration dates listed on them, people just figured it out when they suddenly couldn't activate them despite having just bought the film. The studios quickly learned to clearly mark expiration dates on the packaging...) What's the reasoning behind them expiring? The studios will always have an internet presence, so 'server expenses' isn't an excuse... I can go buy one of these movies in the store right now and can't even use the digital copy... It just seems weird that they'd make them that way. If I activate them they supposedly work forever, so why can't I activate them forever?

[sonnyness]

Originally Posted by Rik1138

I think it has to be a HD digital copy, that's the difference... I have several Disney movie digital copies from the Blu-ray (Bolt, Nightmare Before Christmas, Wall-E), and none of them will play the iTunes Extras.

I just activated my Frozen code (labelled as 'Digital HD Digital Copy'), and all the extras are playing now... I think the 'HD' digital copies are fairly new, but it seems that the Extras are tied to those. If you just buy an SD copy of a movie from the store, I don't think you will get the extras (at least, not the new version of them).

FYI if you open a Disneymoviesanywhere.com account all your SD Disney movies are upgraded to HD for free, when you link with iTunes account (very simple) im just sayin... get on it

[sodapop]

Originally Posted by Rik1138

Like I said, as long as you take care of the media, it'll last as long as you want it to last. You just apparently have a different definition of 'practical situation' than I do. I still use many forms of decades old media... Not as much as the modern stuff, but I still use it. And the point is that I can.

I imagine you must be stuffing your money under a mattress instead of trusting a bank. That approach works well until your house gets robbed or burns down in a fire.

Originally Posted by Rik1138

But everyone is different, and accepts different things. Some people are perfectly fine with only having digital versions of their media collections, other people want it all on physical media... Others are in the middle, either having both of everything, or physical for their favorites, digital for everything else... Nothing is right or wrong, I'm just personally not a fan of always having to be connected to the internet watch a movie...

I hear you, its all a big conspiracy between the ISPs, the movie studios and the online media distribution outlets to get you to pay multiple parties initially and then perpetually in order to gain access a movie. Double taxation. Ultimately, maintaining a digital movie collection will cost you more over the long run than a physical one.

[Andysol]

Originally Posted by Rik1138

That's exactly my point, they should never expire... (And, in the case of the two I tried, there were no expiration dates listed on them, people just figured it out when they suddenly couldn't activate them despite having just bought the film. The studios quickly learned to clearly mark expiration dates on the packaging...) What's the reasoning behind them expiring? The studios will always have an internet presence, so 'server expenses' isn't an excuse... I can go buy one of these movies in the store right now and can't even use the digital copy... It just seems weird that they'd make them that way. If I activate them they supposedly work forever, so why can't I activate them forever?

Huh? If Kellogg's runs a promotion:
"buy 2 cereal boxes, get a free movie ticket. Expires 7/30/2014"
And then you try to submit your cereal boxes in December- do you complain? It's a free movie for a promotional period. That's it.

Once redeemed, its yours forever (if you download on hard drive). It's not their fault you didn't redeem it during the promotional period.

[disneywildcat]

Originally Posted by sonnyness

FYI if you open a Disneymoviesanywhere.com account all your SD Disney movies are upgraded to HD for free, when you link with iTunes account (very simple) im just sayin... get on it

Only SD Disney Movies redeemed in iTunes or DMR/DMA will be upgraded to HD. Disney Movies purchased from iTunes in SD will not be upgraded.

I guess now SD iTunes purchases may not include the new version of iTunes Extras?

It also appears that almost all Disney movies don't let you download the original version of iTunes Extras anymore, as many of them now have the new version (although The Lion King doesn't have the new version of iTunes Extras).

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by BRH

Maybe I can answer my own question... I just checked "Bourne Legacy" (a title I redeemed in HD via Blu-ray DC code back when I bought it) and that has the extras. Weird that some of the DC-redeemed titles have the extras and some don't.

I have all four Bourne movies and oddly only Legacy and Identity have the blue iTunes Extras logo while all four still have the separate listing in my library for iTunes Extras

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

I have all four Bourne movies and oddly only Legacy and Identity have the blue iTunes Extras logo while all four still have the separate listing in my library for iTunes Extras

SUPREMACY and ULTIMATUM might get the update for the new iTunes Extras later. Again, this'll take some time to get all the films that have iTunes Extras enabled throughout iTunes/Apple TV.

[shamus]

Snowpiercer just hit itunes and it already has itunes extras. Not sure how I feel about it being an all in one download (instead of 2 separate options). On one hand, its nice and neat. On the other hand its a lot of valuable HD space for extras that some people never watch (like me). Ive mostly stopped downloading, as I just dont have the room, so its a nonissue for me, but knowing Apple (or studios) can stop my movies at any time stops me from moving completely from bluray.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by shamus

Snowpiercer just hit itunes and it already has itunes extras. Not sure how I feel about it being an all in one download (instead of 2 separate options).

The actual extras are not included in the download. They only live in the cloud. iTunes only adds metadata including links to the extras in a new library file in the main iTunes directory. For movies that have the "old style" downloadable extras you can still download them separately from the movie.

[shamus]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

The actual extras are not included in the download. They only live in the cloud. iTunes only adds metadata including links to the extras in a new library file in the main iTunes directory. For movies that have the "old style" downloadable extras you can still download them separately from the movie.

got it. thanks!

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

The actual extras are not included in the download. They only live in the cloud. iTunes only adds metadata including links to the extras in a new library file in the main iTunes directory. For movies that have the "old style" downloadable extras you can still download them separately from the movie.

But this only works with iTunes 11.3 right?

[midgat0]

This is a pleasant surprise and it's about time! Just went through all mine on the apple tv. It's pretty cool how they have menus now...just hope all the movies that had extras will get upgraded. Surprised by a title or two...didn't expect to see extras on there (The Master)

[Rik1138]

Originally Posted by Andysol

Huh? If Kellogg's runs a promotion:
"buy 2 cereal boxes, get a free movie ticket. Expires 7/30/2014"
And then you try to submit your cereal boxes in December- do you complain? It's a free movie for a promotional period. That's it.

Once redeemed, its yours forever (if you download on hard drive). It's not their fault you didn't redeem it during the promotional period.

No, that's different. When you get a 'free movie ticket', you are getting a check made by the company that can be used to buy a ticket. They have to PAY the theater/studio the amount of the check when it's used. All checks expire, that's a requirement of the banking industry... If the cereal box contained $10 cash 'to use at a theater', I guarantee you it would be perfectly usable 20 years from now.

And that's a free 'gift' for buying the cereal, not something you are out-right paying for.

When you buy a Blu-ray that includes a digital copy, you are _buying_ a copy of the digital film as well (there have been titles where the only additional 'bonus' was the digital copy, and they cost $5 more than the version without. You are PAYING for the digital copy. If it expires, I want my $5 back.) It doesn't cost the studios anything to activate the code, and it's not a 'promotional gift' for buying the movie, it's part of the package. It'd be like having the second disc of a two-disc set suddenly stop working after a year... The outside of the packaging doesn't magically remove the big ' + DIGITAL COPY' at the top when the code isn't any good...

And my biggest complaint is the ones that didn't tell you they expire, or they say things like 'may not work after this date'. _MAY NOT_? Really? The studios themselves don't even know... (Even better: 'Code subject to expiration' with no additional information. How is that helpful? )

I suppose it's possible they are paying a third-party company to manage all of this, and that company might charge by movie title annually, so that might be the logistical reason for having them expire. But just having a check-list of codes on a server that just goes 'Yep, that one is good' shouldn't have to disable them after some time... It just never made any sense to me why they couldn't work for as long as the service (i.e., iTunes or UV) is available.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Rik1138

Nothing is right or wrong, I'm just personally not a fan of always having to be connected to the internet watch a movie...

I'm happy for you that you find it equally entertaining to enjoy poor quality, decades-old versions of movies, but you're probably fairly unique in that opinion. Even if I still had a working VCR and my copy of Star Trek II, I'm never, ever, ever going to watch it again. I'm going to watch an HD version through Netflix or my own collection. (And the iTunes copy is on a hard drive, backed up, and able to be delivered to any device I own because I stripped the DRM.)

You don't always need to be connected to the Internet to watch a movie unless you're using a service like Netflix. iTunes and UV both permit downloading of your movies, although UV's implementation is currently different for each retailer. That will likely change by the end of the year.

Not even sure where you are going with this one... They actually produced nearly 1/2 million players, but I don't care WHY they canned it, the fact was that they DID.

You're the one you brought up that consumer electronics disaster. You conveniently keep ignoring the fact that DIVX was for rentals - purchasing was an option that rarely occurred. DIVX discs didn't have extras and DVD, which was kicking its butt, did.

From the L.A. Times:

About 200,000 Divx players have been sold to consumers. Divx owners could buy DVD movies on a disposable disc for about $5 and play them during a 48-hour period. They could then throw away the disc or buy the movie for an additional fee. Divx players also play conventional DVD movies.

That "about" 200k number was actually 165k as later discovered by academics.

It's fun showing people a CED and telling them that's it a movie on a _record_ played with an actual needle...

DIVX did not use a needle, it used a laser. I think you're confusing DIVX with something else.

What's the reasoning behind them expiring?

I'll tell you the reason: accounting. It's the same reason gift cards (used to) expire. Each code is technically a liability, and you have to keep track of that liability until you don't. So firms put expiration dates so that they can eventually stop keeping track of that liability. And really, if a person hasn't redeemed a code a decade after purchase, what's the likelihood they will? Why should that continue to be an ongoing liability on their books?

Originally Posted by Rik1138

No, that's different. When you get a 'free movie ticket', you are getting a check made by the company that can be used to buy a ticket. They have to PAY the theater/studio the amount of the check when it's used. All checks expire, that's a requirement of the banking industry...

It's no different. That is a liability on that company's books, and it's why it expires. The fact that it's electronic now doesn't change the accounting one bit.

Saying cash never expires as a counterargument is nonsense. Cash is a liability managed by the Federal Reserve. No company has to keep track of that liability.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

I have all four Bourne movies and oddly only Legacy and Identity have the blue iTunes Extras logo while all four still have the separate listing in my library for iTunes Extras

Originally Posted by Jumpman

SUPREMACY and ULTIMATUM might get the update for the new iTunes Extras later. Again, this'll take some time to get all the films that have iTunes Extras enabled throughout iTunes/Apple TV.

All 4 of my Bourne titles have had new-style extras since yesterday.

Thinking about it, I did purchase those on iTunes as a bundle a while ago. They weren't redeemed copies.