Ali (2001)

[MJD64]

Originally Posted by Hoke Moseley

I think the guy doing all the special effects died before they were completed, and that seems like a pretty valid excuse to me.

In regards to the news of this thread, I'm very excited. ALI is a great movie and one of Mann's best and most underrated.

Wally Veevers did indeed die during post-production but that didn't prohibit a theatrical release or keep this film from being released on videotape and laserdisc back in the day.
Although Mann's visual strengths are fully in evidence here, the story and characters are murky at best, and I suspect Mann knows that.This can't be remedied with stronger special-effects, which I still maintain are the least of this film's problems.

[MarioG280]

Mann's attention to detail and historical and/or technical accuracy always impresses me and as somewhat of a boxing historian Ali was exceptionally impressive in this regard. One thing that did bother me was having Voight's Cosell as the tv broadcaster and post-fight interviewer for the Liston fight. I understand why it was done though.

[DaBargainHunta]

I didn't love the movie, and I'm not a Michael Mann fan in general (most of his films leave me ice cold), but I am curious about the extended cut if that's what this is. I got raked over hot coals in a different Ali thread for daring to suggest that Will Smith captured none of the joy of the man in his dour depiction of Ali. Probably more the script's fault than his, but still. Ali could light up a room, and that never came through with Smith. It was a fine performance and decent movie otherwise though.

[Shingster]

It's not the script's fault imo, Smith is always completely straight-faced and "joyless" when he's hunting for an Oscar - just look at Concussion & Seven Pounds. The irony is that Smith's best chance of getting the awards success he so desperately craves is to play up to his strengths: Pure charismatic parts. That's the Will Smith people love, not the one who mopes around a scene like someone who recently suffered a stroke.

[rocknblues81]

Originally Posted by severe conservative

I didn't care for it much, but I'm one of the few who liked Miami Vice. So I know how you feel.

I hated Miami Vice the first time I watched it, but it really grew on me with repeated viewings.

[Guillaume P]

Originally Posted by Hoke Moseley

In regards to the news of this thread, I'm very excited. ALI is a great movie and one of Mann's best and most underrated.

And when i think that in 2002 "A beautiful mind" won everything at the Academy Awards and that "Ali" flopped badly and was nominated only twice!!...nothing for the direction, cinematography, editing, soundtrack, etc
"Heat" wasn't even nominated back in 1996!!...Mann is cursed.
The fights scenes of "Ali" (the opening Liston one and the Foreman fight) are probably the best i've seen in a boxing movie...so impressive immersive and thrilling on the big screen!

Originally Posted by MJD64

Although Mann's visual strengths are fully in evidence here, the story and characters are murky at best

The film's finale is a bit rushed but overall i have no real issues with the story and characters.

[Akijama]

Best Buy pre-order http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ali-blu-...skuId=32341572

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by thecalm_7

It would be nice if it were both cuts.

It would be nice if it had the first two cuts. That was my first thought when I read that this morning. Then I read farther down and saw that there really probably will be a new cut. I recently went through all my Mann movies that I have digital copies of. I'm too busy to actually sit down to watch movies, it took me 4 days over two weekends to watch Trick R Treat, but I can watch 4-5 movies a week on my phone. Anyways I didn't think I had Ali but I had done a disc to digital awhile back. I hadn't watched it since the theatrical cut came out on DVD, and at the time I thought it was good, but didn't have much rewatchability. I passed on the directors cut until about a year ago I found it for cheap. I guess the D2D redeemed as the theatrical cut, so I still haven't seen the directors cut. I still think it's well done, and the performances are good, but even for a biopic it seems to wander too much. I'll need to give the directors cut a watch someday, and I'll be picking up this new blu regardless.

[tylergfoster]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Is there anything different about the Japanese version of The Insider? Does it have all the extras and/or a new transfer? I still haven't picked up the US BD.

I'd also really like to know this. The Insider is my favorite Mann film.

I said this in the Blackhat thread but I hope Universal releases his alternate cut on digital or something.

[Paul.R.S]

Glad Mann, according to an earlier post, is involved otherwise I doubt this would even have been released (by the studio that licensed out Funny Lady and Sleepless in Seattle).

[Seymour]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

Glad Mann, according to an earlier post, is involved otherwise I doubt this would even have been released (by the studio that licensed out Yentl and Sleepless in Seattle).

By the studio that licensed out Sleepless in Seattle. Yentl actually came from that other studio that licenses everything out (MGM).

[Paul.R.S]

Got my Babs confused. Good catch. Post corrected.

[Bruce Morrison]

On https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Ali-Blu-ray/44156/ there is a reference to a Best Buy price of $14.99. Does this imply that it will initially be a Best Buy exclusive only?

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by MarioG280

Mann's attention to detail and historical and/or technical accuracy always impresses me and as somewhat of a boxing historian Ali was exceptionally impressive in this regard. One thing that did bother me was having Voight's Cosell as the tv broadcaster and post-fight interviewer for the Liston fight. I understand why it was done though.

I saw a lot more problems than that. Howard was at that fight, but what was missed was how the commentator was overtly acting like a supporter for Liston and worse kinda hostile because he couldn't control Ali (always wondered what he said in Ali's ear forcefully to get him to calm down).

This film was badly directed and got so many facts wrong. Ali never celebrated like an idiot before a person lost. If anything he stood over the person and waited for them to get up with arms up in the champ pose.

Even in the Foreman fight they spent so much time on Ali gawking over art in Africa, but no time letting the viewer know that he visited before (10 years actually) and had the entire countries support!

Mann also downplayed Don King and the actor came off as Kid n Play. It was a disgrace.

The facts are that Mann was more in love with the camera and spent tons of time making love with long drawn out shots instead of paying attention to the true details. Champ burgers vs the fact that he had the entire press thinking he was going to run all over the ring only to lay on the ropes after a fake out first couple of hard action rounds??

Mann loves to flourish the drama like Foreman hitting his knee on way down???

I am a huge Ali fan and to my amazement Will Smith was not the problem.

I haven't seen it in years and wonder if a directors cut can fix this. I doubt it, but I still like Mann's film, but attention to historical accuracy? Hardly. I call him the Michael Bay of drama. The Insider was a masterpiece, but there were glaring errors there too. It is part of entertainment.

[The Prowler]

Thanks but I'll take Mann's style over the facts any day. It would be a pretty boring time at the movies if they had to follow every based on real life situation to the letter. Isn't that what documentaries are for?

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by tylergfoster

I'd also really like to know this. The Insider is my favorite Mann film.

I said this in the Blackhat thread but I hope Universal releases his alternate cut on digital or something.

If WB can release 20 different versions of Alexander for Oliver Stone, surely Universal can put out just one more release of Blackhat for Michael Mann. Or maybe Criterion will think it's a misunderstood masterpiece and schedule it for release in a year or two. One can dream.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by The Prowler

Thanks but I'll take Mann's style over the facts any day. It would be a pretty boring time at the movies if they had to follow every based on real life situation to the letter. Isn't that what documentaries are for?

It was that thinking that made it a mediocre movie.

The point I am making is the Insider got it closer to right and it shows.

It isn't just about the facts, but also the sloppy nature of glossing over things that were important in favor of more stylistic choices.

The film lacked clear direction. I mean look at Jami Foxx. Wonderful acting, very well done. Incredible depiction. Actually made me feel for the groupie. But I thought this movie was called Ali? Sorry, but when it comes to a subject this important, no the reality is most certainly not boring.

It played like someone who doesn't understand the subject. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction, and Ali's life was anything but boring. It could have been told with utmost accuracy while using stylistic flair to advantage, as opposed to a crutch for not knowing the facts.

The real crime is Will Smith putting so much into it, only to be lost in the "shuffle" because of a bad directing.

[Shingster]

If I were to focus an Ali biopic on a period of the champ's life then I'd rather cover his trilogy of fights with Frazier as they make for a more interesting story, so long as it remains true to the facts and doesn't paint Ali as the hero.

[Hoke Moseley]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

If WB can release 20 different versions of Alexander for Oliver Stone, surely Universal can put out just one more release of Blackhat for Michael Mann. Or maybe Criterion will think it's a misunderstood masterpiece and schedule it for release in a year or two. One can dream.

I was actually thinking about Blackhat joining the Criterion Collection recently... probably won't be for a few years but they need some more Mann in there pronto.

[Akijama]

Art / specs exclusively here, courtesy of Sony Press site.