Top of the Pops (music programme)

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Martoto

So we're going to miss Pump Up The Volume entirely? That sucks.

They even featured it in the 1987 documentary.

Sorry I've not replied until now. Yes, the first time the song was on the show was over the end credits on the 17th September, '87 edition.

On a Facebook fanpage for the show, click on Notes then scroll down the page a lot, before you get to the programme notes for September to December 1987.

They show clips from skipped editions in the documentaries, so you'll see/hear some songs which are on editions which BBC Four can't show.

The editions being shown this week are from 27th August and 10th September. Next week, the 15th and 22nd October editions.

[OceanBlue]

Also, if you do a web search for the show on the BBC website, it'll show you the next editions which BBC Four are showing from 1987. Next week, the 29th October and 12th November editions. Then the week after that, just the one edition (the 19th November edition).

Other songs which are on skipped editions during the autumn of '87 are Crockett's Theme by Jan Hammer and Turn Back the Clock by Johnny Hates Jazz (the latter is on the Christmas Day edition but that can't be shown. The (live) New Year's Eve edition can be shown though).

[OceanBlue]

The week after next, BBC Four will be showing the 26th November and 3rd December, '87 editions. That leaves the 17th December and (live) New Year's Eve, '87 editions to show. So I think it's going to be sometime in June that a documentary about the series in 1988 will be shown, along with a Big Hits show, followed by the first editions from that year.

BBC Four should be able to show each edition once they get to April '88 (it appears the last edition Mike Smith presented was the 31st March, 1988 edition), with the exception of the very last edition from the noughties, and the possibility of any edits to editions.

[Martoto]

Thanks again Oceanblue. The New Year episode wil be the one that coincided with my 10th birthday. I can't recall anything about it except that I was still getting Star Wars figures as gifts.

The charts for December 87 are formidable. A pretty full quota of mighty classics in there.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Thanks again Oceanblue. The New Year episode wil be the one that coincided with my 10th birthday. I can't recall anything about it except that I was still getting Star Wars figures as gifts.

The charts for December 87 are formidable. A pretty full quota of mighty classics in there.

Haven't seen tonight's edition yet, but I know the late, great Donna Summer is on it (after Dinner with Gershwin, her next hit wouldn't be for another two years).

The Smiths are on next week, and after that I think there was one further single before the end of the year. Morrissey's debut solo single was in early '88.

[OceanBlue]

Following on from my previous post, have checked the BBC website about the show, and the 17th December and (live) New Year's Eve, '87 editions are being shown on BBC Four the week after next. So I'm going to hazard a guess that a The Story of... documentary (and Big Hits show) about the series in '88 is going to air on Friday 7th June (but that's just a guess).

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

Following on from my previous post, have checked the BBC website about the show, and the 17th December and (live) New Year's Eve, '87 editions are being shown on BBC Four the week after next. So I'm going to hazard a guess that a The Story of... documentary (and Big Hits show) about the series in '88 is going to air on Friday 7th June (but that's just a guess).

It's music-city on BBC Four tonight.

And I see that next Friday's edition of the People's History of Pop is one presented by .... Danny Baker Might as well put on a DLT presented TOTP (or better still, The Golden Oldie Picture Show ).

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Martoto

It's music-city on BBC Four tonight.

And I see that next Friday's edition of the People's History of Pop is one presented by .... Danny Baker Might as well put on a DLT presented TOTP (or better still, The Golden Oldie Picture Show ).

Just realised, I should have said the post before last, where I last mentioned the 17th December and (live) New Year's Eve editions.

I saw the Bryan Ferry & Roxy Music documentary when it was first shown on BBC Four. That was repeated earlier tonight (I prefer the latter-era of the group).

Hopefully, Have I Got News for You recorded tonight, after what happened last week (the episode was pulled from the schedules).

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

Only BBC response I've ever seen:

Thanks for getting in touch about Top of the Pops.

While he was alive, Mike Smith decided not to sign the licence extension that would allow the BBC to repeat the Top of the Pops episodes that he presented. Since his passing, the BBC is continuing to respect his wishes.

I hope this clarifies the situation for you.

Best wishes,

Richard Carey

BBC Enquiries Team

So thanks to the whims of millionaire Mike Smith hundreds of artists and composers, most of whom are hardly millionaires themselves, have been deprived of their rightful repeat fees and composers royalties? What an ass.

Is there a definitive list of why certain episodes aren't repeated? As far as I can tell:

1. Jimmy Savile (who's probably all but gone by 1987), Dave Lee Travis* and possibly others presenting or appearing.
2. Mike Smith not allowing repeats.
3. Despite archiving the complete 80's run at least one episode was found to have a corrupted broadcast master and the BBC chose not to air their fan donated VHS copy.

Any other reasons?

Great thread by the way. I'd forgotten how great pop music was in 87. I thought many of the 83 to 85 repeats were often excellent but it turns out 87 was probably the year I properly took an interest in music.

* Which means come next year we'll not get to hear his creepy "cute and only 15 years old" intro to Venessa Paradis' "Joe Le Taxi" which even to my agreeing 100% early teenage ears just sounded weird coming from the Hairy Cornflake.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by Martoto

I had absolutely no recollection of Broken English.

Jeez.

They were like something from 1978 rather than 1987.

It was deliberately sent out to radio stations without artist credits and initially got tons of positive press as the best single the Rolling Stones have released in a decade. The song's fine but even 32 years ago I thought their performance and the video were kind of cringey. As a single it's unrepresentative as the rest of the LP is dreary pop rock and the band quickly faded away.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

So thanks to the whims of millionaire Mike Smith hundreds of artists and composers, most of whom are hardly millionaires themselves, have been deprived of their rightful repeat fees and composers royalties? What an ass.

Is there a definitive list of why certain episodes aren't repeated? As far as I can tell:

1. Jimmy Savile (who's probably all but gone by 1987), Dave Lee Travis* and possibly others presenting or appearing.
2. Mike Smith not allowing repeats.
3. Despite archiving the complete 80's run at least one episode was found to have a corrupted broadcast master and the BBC chose not to air their fan donated VHS copy.

Any other reasons?

Great thread by the way. I'd forgotten how great pop music was in 87. I thought many of the 83 to 85 repeats were often excellent but it turns out 87 was probably the year I properly took an interest in music.

* Which means come next year we'll not get to hear his creepy "cute and only 15 years old" intro to Venessa Paradis' "Joe Le Taxi" which even to my agreeing 100% early teenage ears just sounded weird coming from the Hairy Cornflake.

From what I remember (from the programme notes on the Facebook fanpage), JS and DLT both last regular-presented the show in the autumn of '84. I'll have to double-check regarding DLT presenting the show again in '88. Jonathan King was edited out of several editions in the first half of the 80's (the chart hits in the States segments). He was one of a handful of presenters on a Christmas Day edition from I think '85 (he introduced a song by Paul Young, but his introduction was edited out, and at the very end of the edition the other presenters were seen but he was cut out of the camerashot).

Any editions where Gary Glitter appeared on the show were edited as well.

[OceanBlue]

Have checked the BBC website earlier, and a documentary about the show in '88 and a Biggest Hits show are both airing on BBC Four on Friday 7th June.

[Martoto]

Well this year (1988) in spite of the beeb's efforts to expurgate him, Gary Glitter will feature big time. Ha ha!

The glitter beat, to be exact, and the trademark hook from Rock 'N Roll is all over Doctorin The Tardis by The Timelords, aka the KLF, aka the Justified An Ancients Of Mu MU, aka J.A.M.

[partridge]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

So thanks to the whims of millionaire Mike Smith hundreds of artists and composers, most of whom are hardly millionaires themselves, have been deprived of their rightful repeat fees and composers royalties? What an ass.

You don't know what his reasons were, you know nothing about the situation. I don't think Mike is the ass here

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Well this year (1988) in spite of the beeb's efforts to expurgate him, Gary Glitter will feature big time. Ha ha!

The glitter beat, to be exact, and the trademark hook from Rock 'N Roll is all over Doctorin The Tardis by The Timelords, aka the KLF, aka the Justified An Ancients Of Mu MU, aka J.A.M.

Have checked the programme notes, and the last edition from '88 can't be shown. There were several presenters on that edition, but one of them was JS, so that edition can't be shown. Also, I couldn't see that DLT presented the show in '88. Somebody else presented the show when Vanessa Paradis was on the show.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by partridge

You don't know what his reasons were, you know nothing about the situation. I don't think Mike is the ass here

If denying hundreds of people rightful income doesn't make you an ass I don't know what does. In comparison to other channels it's quite substantial royalties as well, after all as it isn't their money they're spending the BBC have no real reason to negotiate hard with the PRS, the Musicians Union, Equity et al do they?

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

Have checked the programme notes, and the last edition from '88 can't be shown. There were several presenters on that edition, but one of them was JS, so that edition can't be shown. Also, I couldn't see that DLT presented the show in '88. Somebody else presented the show when Vanessa Paradis was on the show.

My money's on over the years my brain confusing Gary Davis or Mike Reid with DLT. It's still a very DLT thing to say.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

If denying hundreds of people rightful income doesn't make you an ass I don't know what does.

You only have the right to repeat broadcast income if the show is repeated. There's no obligation for the BBC to repeat any of them. So you're way off on the supposed rightful income there.

In comparison to other channels it's quite substantial royalties as well, after all as it isn't their money they're spending the BBC have no real reason to negotiate hard with the PRS, the Musicians Union, Equity et al do they?

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the replay income for the acts you're referring to already comes from the BBC, before TOTP repeats.

It's too bad that not all shows are repeated and not all acts enjoy a bonus replay fee for something the may never have expected would get aired again thirty odd years later. But nobody's rights are affected here.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Well this year (1988) in spite of the beeb's efforts to expurgate him, Gary Glitter will feature big time. Ha ha!

The glitter beat, to be exact, and the trademark hook from Rock 'N Roll is all over Doctorin The Tardis by The Timelords, aka the KLF, aka the Justified An Ancients Of Mu MU, aka J.A.M.

...aka The JAMs, aka The K Foundation, aka 2K, aka Disco 2000 (they did like a good pseudonym did Bill and Jimmy) Still got tons of their records and CDs, one of their books (reprint alas) and the xeroxed program for the Manchester showing of their "Watch the K Foundation Burn a Million Quid" film. Wonderful admirable artists and pranksters.

Unfortunately we won't get to see the 1988 Christmas Special where Gary makes an unannounced quest appearance performing with them. Which is a shame.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by Martoto

You only have the right to repeat broadcast income if the show is repeated. There's no obligation for the BBC to repeat any of them. So you're way off on the supposed rightful income there.

There's no reason to presume the BBC wouldn't repeat the Mike Smith episodes if there wasn't a repeat ban on the full episodes. No repeat = no repeat fees, which i think is selfish of Mr. Smith whatever his reasons were.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the replay income for the acts you're referring to already comes from the BBC, before TOTP repeats.

It's too bad that not all shows are repeated and not all acts enjoy a bonus replay fee for something the may never have expected would get aired again thirty odd years later. But nobody's rights are affected here.

I simply meant as the BBC is taxpayer funded and perhaps not coincidentally has a history of wasteful and complacent economic decisions.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

There's no reason to presume the BBC wouldn't repeat the Mike Smith episodes if there wasn't a repeat ban on the full episodes. No repeat = no repeat fees, which i think is selfish of Mr. Smith whatever his reasons were.

That still doesn't mean the artists have a right to see their appearances on TOTP repeated. They only have a right to repeat fees IF the show is repeated. Selfish it may or may not have been to not permit repeats of shows Smith presented. A denial of anyone's rights it categorically is not.

I simply meant as the BBC is taxpayer funded and perhaps not coincidentally has a history of wasteful and complacent economic decisions.

So you're protesting that some artists are being denied a larger share of the wasteful expense by the BBC than they already get from them through radio play etc?

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

Unfortunately we won't get to see the 1988 Christmas Special where Gary makes an unannounced quest appearance performing with them. Which is a shame.

I'm sure Bill and Jimmy don't mind missing out on repeat fees. They've got money to burn, selfishly.