Were we this bad when Paramount left?

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Dalese

The feelings of hurt, anger, and fear were just as prevalent here after the Paramount annoncement.

The difference IMO is the feeling of desperation coming from the HD-DVD side due to the ramifications of what the Warner decision means. When Paramount dropped Blu-ray, there was an effort by the blu community and insiders to calm the troops. Loosing Paramount was an unexpected setback, a delay, a speedbump that in the end would not make a difference in the format war.

Warner's dropping of HD-DVD is a "deathblow" to the format. The finality of the decision leaves no realistic opportunity for HD-DVD to overcome the loss.

By nature, people do not like to loose. I only hope that those who are upset by this can understand the reality of the situation and move beyond their anger. The Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD format war may be wrapping up but the more difficult Blu-ray vs. DVD has barely begun.

What's interesting is the lack of any counter-attack from the HD DVD insiders (talking more specifically about Amir Majidemehr, but also referring to the other Microsofties there in general), even on AVS. That speaks volumes about how invested Microsoft really is at this point in HD DVD.

When Paramount went down, our Blu-ray insiders went to bat for us here and gave us some good news (Fox, upcoming Warner releases, et. al.). I don't see anything of the sort from the red side at the moment - and according to amirm, they've known about this move - at least potentially - for some time now, so for them to have no formulated response is extra significant.

[bkbluray]

It definitely sucked when Paramount went HD-DVD exclusive, but it was not nearly as bad as it would've been if Warner had jumped ship. Warner has the largest movie catalog out there, and (I think) the most high-def releases out of any studio. This is truly a crushing blow to HD-DVD.

[GamingPhantom]

Originally Posted by Cyan

They're forced into the acknowledgment that they now have a player that will, soon enough, will be archaic. For them to continue to enjoy HD support, which most will want to do, they'll be forced to purchase another HD player now. The same thing happened to everyone that bought a Beta player 20 years ago. That's the risk you take sometimes.

I feel sorry for HDDVD users, not the banishers, because they were burned.

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by jling84

In the HD-DVD forum, there are a bunch of threads proclaiming that Universal, Dreamworks and Paramount need to start releasing ONLY combo discs (No DVDs at all) to turn it all around.

People like this just don't get it.

Even if they did this, it would not save HD-DVD, because studios are not stupid enough to think that all of those sales are real.

Do they honestly believe that people are going to jump ship to a format that would completely kill their sales, because now they are only selling a fraction of their former DVD sales?

Are these people really that delusional?

[Deacon220]

There is a lesson to be learned here for HD-DVD buyers. To be a wise consumer it pays to learn about the product before you buy. What appears on the surface to be "just as good" at a lower price seldom holds up to closer inspection. As in "when is a good deal not a good deal?" More often than not if it's too good to be true, it almost always isn't true. The spec's were and are clearly in favor of blu-ray. Flashy promotions and fast talking salesman only look at the quick sale with little regard for the buyer. It's much easier to sell someone an item that looks just a good on the surface at half the price than to educate the buyer and hope they can afford the best choice for themselves. I came close a couple times when blu-ray first came out but was more than I wanted to pay for a player. Thankfully I held out until the price became closer then bought the one I knew was the clear superior product.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by jling84

In the HD-DVD forum, there are a bunch of threads proclaiming that Universal, Dreamworks and Paramount need to start releasing ONLY combo discs (No DVDs at all) to turn it all around.

(1) A single DVD can sell more copies in the first week than all HDM that have sold so far. The HD DVD replication capacity is only a few percent of the needed amount.

(2) The cost to the studio would be about $1 - $1.50 more per disc. How much do you think Wal-mart pays wholesale for new release DVDs? Well under $10 I would expect.

Who is going the pay for the massive replication infrastructure improvements and the disc cost differential so the studios can perform this miracle comeback?

Gary

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by jling84

In the HD-DVD forum, there are a bunch of threads proclaiming that Universal, Dreamworks and Paramount need to start releasing ONLY combo discs (No DVDs at all) to turn it all around.

Does anyone really think the releasing combo only discs will be of any interest to DVD users? From what I understand these discs cost $5 more the a standard HD DVD disc which is way more than the DVD customer would pay. Well they could get more combo discs into the hands of DVD users if they sell it for less than $15. Also, my HD DUD friends never buy combo discs because for some reason they hate them.

The best part of the Warner decision is this will hopefully lead to a single HDM solution which is the best thing for everyone. I suspect that long after HD DUD is dead the DUD fans will still be crowing that HD DUD is better which makes no sense to me.

[crystal_sun]

yeah..those HD-DVD fanboys are pretty pathetic. They go and bash Blu-Ray and root to win all this time for 1 format. And now when they are in the losing corner, they cried about it by bashing the winner LOL. I just feel sorry for them. If Warner picked HD-DVD, then I would have moved on... It didn't matter if the movies that I love came from HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Oh well, those fanboys deserve it as they knew the risk and one winner will prevail.

[JAGUAR1977]

Originally Posted by jling84

I don't know if you guys have been taking a cursory glance at AVS, but WOW the posts that are still going in those threads are just pathetic. At first I was reading for amusement, but I just cannot read anymore; it's that sad.

In the general HDM forum now, there are mainly just HD-DVD supporters consoling each other and resorting to bashing the PS3 as a video game console to make themselves feel better.

In the HD-DVD forum, there are a bunch of threads proclaiming that Universal, Dreamworks and Paramount need to start releasing ONLY combo discs (No DVDs at all) to turn it all around.

There is so much more nonsense in there that it really got me to thinking... Were we that bad when Paramount suddenly jumped ship? I have to admit I was pretty shocked so I didn't really post or read any threads that day, but I definitely never posted any ridiculous claims.

We were dissapointed Paramount ignored consumer will and seemingly purposely chose to lengthen this format war.

Some HD-DVD supporters on the otherhand appear delussional, we've always had these 'fears', now they've proven to be correct.

[T-Wrecks]

I'm reallly starting to pay attention to your sigs now..."Universal will go neutral within 96 hours" seems a WHOLE lot more legit after yesterday.

[cartier]

Toshiba maintained that price point was important, an obvious fallacy. However, now you have some who could not have afforded to be involved in a format war to begin with and are upset. If you can't bare the cost of defeat then stay out of the format war.

[WickyWoo]

(2) The cost to the studio would be about $1 - $1.50 more per disc. How much do you think Wal-mart pays wholesale for new release DVDs? Well under $10 I would expect.

Definately not

They pay 65% of whatever the SRP is, same as everyone else. They might get another dollar off...maybe, but they're still paying $15-20 per DVD cost on new product.

[MouseRider]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Definately not

They pay 65% of whatever the SRP is, same as everyone else. They might get another dollar off...maybe, but they're still paying $15-20 per DVD cost on new product.

Even if you are right, Wal-Mart has been known in the past to have a great return policy to the manufacturer because of their position, that means that they can return anything they don't sell and often get stock on consignment.

That's a quantifiable advantage for them to be able to play strategies like "lost leaders".

As for Toshiba making BD players as suggested in an earlier post, it probably will happen when HD-DVD gets buried but it might take quite a while. Just look at how long Sony took before they started selling their first VHS player? Of course, times are different now and timelines are much more compressed.

[Pilam69]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Definately not

They pay 65% of whatever the SRP is, same as everyone else. They might get another dollar off...maybe, but they're still paying $15-20 per DVD cost on new product.

Wal-Mart sells so many discs there is NO WAY they pay the same rate as any other retailer. Although you'll never find out what they pay (that is a more closely guarded secret than nuclear launch codes) based anecdotally on other stories you hear about though, like what they did to Rubbermaid when they refused to lower their costs to Wal-Mart, it has to be a deeply discounted rate.

[jling84]

Wow they are still going at it over at AVS. I thought that clearer minds would surely prevail after a good night's rest, but that doesn't appear to be the case as sour grapes are still aplenty.

I think hypothetically, had Blu-Ray lost this format war, undoubtedly many people would have been devestated. However, because so many of us use the PS3 as our primary player I think many of us would have taken solace in the fact that we could fill some of the gap left by Warner with video games.

I see people on those forums trying to console themselves by stating that their standalones would still plays DVDs, but I think ultimately those are pretty empty words as almost everything, with the exception of my toaster, plays DVDs.

[psx3man]

i think its just as bad i was so pissed when i couldn't get blades of glory a week after the announcement

[CptGreedle]

I think it is sad that the HD DVD group thinks the HD DVD studios should drop DVDs and only release their titles on HD DVD/DVD combo discs.
The fact is, DVDs obviously sell much much better than either HDM format. And yet, when they decided to release Start Trek to HD DVD/DVD combo and NOT to DVD separately.... well according to this site, Star Trek HD DVD/DVD combo is at rank 1,298... that is toward the bottom of the HD DVD list.

Needless to say if they made everything combo discs, it would destroy their DVD sales and they would loose tons more money than they have by supporting HD DVD.

[CptGreedle]

AT LEAST Warner Brothers is being nice and professional, and not childish and mean like Paramount, and continuing to release their unreleased HD DVD titles for a few months before dropping it completely. Paramount just up and stopped ALL BD sales, even those that were CLEARLY ready to be sold (the discs were already made in volume and just needed to be shipped). WB is far smarter and nicer than that and I hope the HD DVD people can at least appreciate that WB is not going to stab them in the back like Paramount did to us.

[w_tanoto]

Originally Posted by jling84

I don't know if you guys have been taking a cursory glance at AVS, but WOW the posts that are still going in those threads are just pathetic. At first I was reading for amusement, but I just cannot read anymore; it's that sad.

In the general HDM forum now, there are mainly just HD-DVD supporters consoling each other and resorting to bashing the PS3 as a video game console to make themselves feel better.

In the HD-DVD forum, there are a bunch of threads proclaiming that Universal, Dreamworks and Paramount need to start releasing ONLY combo discs (No DVDs at all) to turn it all around.

There is so much more nonsense in there that it really got me to thinking... Were we that bad when Paramount suddenly jumped ship? I have to admit I was pretty shocked so I didn't really post or read any threads that day, but I definitely never posted any ridiculous claims.

no, we weren't that bad. We're still supporting BD, while some HD DVD supporters whose posts I've read have given up HD DVD. (HDD Forum)

They will lost DreamWorks soon, to Universal. If Universal went neutral, then it's over. Para would be alone.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

don't fool yourself , there are many, many of them that will not buy blu-ray, they have stated they will go back to dvd or do downloads.

but your right too, a lot of them are buying blu-ray players and are part of our blu family.

my whole point is ...the ones who prefer movies in high def will make the move if they are smart...