Sweet Charity (1969) from Kino

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Greycomm

Do they think the second disk is worth twice
The price?

No, they don't. A standard 1-disc release typically has a $29.95 MSRP thus the second disc, in this case, only increased the MSRP by $10 or in other words a 33% increase.

[Greycomm]

The few discs I buy have some sort of discount already when listed by Amazon. It just looks like they're waiting to drop the price until all the "first day" fans buy it.

If anyone actually read my post they'd see I didn't say there were NO extras. I said no New extras. Aside from a commentary by someone with no connection to the film, it's all stuff that was on the DVD. I'm not entirely excited by the "alternate cut" disc as it's not listed as the roadshow version and has a shorter run time. The two versions should be identical except the time from Where Am I Going? To the end title - which should be followed by the exit music.

[Greycomm]

Originally Posted by filmczy

Picked up a "watched once-mint copy" for $18. Will be shipped on release date.

And where was this? Sounds like someone's expecting a review copy they're in a hurry to sell. Good for you, though.

[Paulo Elias]

The last DVD release was incomplete because the Exit Music is missing.

Also, the end credits show the Dolby Surround mixing logo. If memory serves this mixing was already recorded for the Laserdisc version.

So far, Kino is not releasing the actual soundtrack format for this Blu-Ray release.

It so happens that Sweet Charity has two soundtrack versions, one with 4-tracks for 35 mm prints and the other with 6-tracks for the 70 mm prints.

I first got Sweet Charity in the Cinerama 70 screen, and later in the 70 mm "flat" projection.

I understand that ideally a 4K remaster would include the best soundtrack version as well. The Dolby Surround sound included in the DVD is not bad BUT it is primarily a front stage mixing, the surround is sparingly, if ever, used. This is mostly noticeable in the Somebody Loves Me sequence.

[thatguamguy]

It's Kino. They have heavily discounted sales every month. You're not going to be forced to pay $40 to own this. I promise.

[Greycomm]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

I've been told in the past that the disc branching technology is under copyright. Perhaps pressing a second disc is cheaper than paying the fee to utilize branching?

If Warner could put all four hours of Gone With The Wind on one disc, it seems likely that we could have Act One of Charity on the same disc with both versions of Act Two and program playback options for either one.

I see no reason why the alternate ending version would not also have the roadshow elements, since the rest of the film would be unchanged. Unless they found a cut down general release version that happened to include the alternate ending and someone thinks that's how it was intended.

Someone else has said some of the roadshow engagements had the alternate ending. Since i dont want to forego the roadshow treatment (including the exit music) I'm pretty wary of this release listing the alternate version as shorter.

Is anyone here interested enough to time out the alternate ending on the DVD and compare it with the standard ending? If it happens to be six minutes shorter, that could account for the difference listed for theBlu.

[Greycomm]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

It's Kino. They have heavily discounted sales every month. You're not going to be forced to pay $40 to own this. I promise.

Yes I've noticed their sales. I often wait for prices on catalog titles to go down. A few months ago I posted on another thread that I was prepared to wait for a big price drop on a favorite catalog title since I already owned a digital stream copy of that title. And I got criticized for that, too. Someone thought I should pay the release date price or else studios would stop releasing catalog titles. That particular title is much cheaper now - and I still haven't bought it.

This case is different. I don't have a digital copy. And I'd rather not wait for the price to go down.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by Paulo Elias

The last DVD release was incomplete because the Exit Music is missing.

Also, the end credits show the Dolby Surround mixing logo. If memory serves this mixing was already recorded for the Laserdisc version.

So far, Kino is not releasing the actual soundtrack format for this Blu-Ray release.

It so happens that Sweet Charity has two soundtrack versions, one with 4-tracks for 35 mm prints and the other with 6-tracks for the 70 mm prints.

I first got Sweet Charity in the Cinerama 70 screen, and later in the 70 mm "flat" projection.

I understand that ideally a 4K remaster would include the best soundtrack version as well. The Dolby Surround sound included in the DVD is not bad BUT it is primarily a front stage mixing, the surround is sparingly, if ever, used. This is mostly noticeable in the Somebody Loves Me sequence.

in terms of the 70mm six track mix, this would have meant five front channel speakers plus mono surrounds, so yes, it would have been a front heavy mix.

[Greycomm]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

in terms of the 70mm six track mix, this would have meant five front channel speakers plus mono surrounds, so yes, it would have been a front heavy mix.

The number of screen channels shouldn't make a mix any more front heavy. Since they're meant to accurately position sound to the screen, not increase volume.

Both 70mm and 35mm mixed to Dolby Surround would end up with the 3 screen channels and the same mono surround. Home video as far back as my own experience in early 90s simply mixed down the screen channels to three (2 with matrixed center) The mono surround would be split left and right.

So unless the director chose to lay off the surrounds (one legend told me he didn't like anything pulling attention from the screen) or someone messed up the channel placement (i know of at least one movie where the surround channel was mixed into the front center and the surrounds were just weak reverb) there is no reason for a homevid mix to be any more front heavy than it was in theatres.

However we've heard many instances in which a new track for homevid was created to better exploit the surrounds. They tend to also include a cleaned up original track for purists. So who knows what we'll get here. One would hope the mix would be more enveloping at least in the musical numbers.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by Greycomm

The number of screen channels shouldn't make a mix any more front heavy. Since they're meant to accurately position sound to the screen, not increase volume.

Both 70mm and 35mm mixed to Dolby Surround would end up with the 3 screen channels and the same mono surround. Home video as far back as my own experience in early 90s simply mixed down the screen channels to three (2 with matrixed center) The mono surround would be split left and right.

So unless the director chose to lay off the surrounds (one legend told me he didn't like anything pulling attention from the screen) or someone messed up the channel placement (i know of at least one movie where the surround channel was mixed into the front center and the surrounds were just weak reverb) there is no reason for a homevid mix to be any more front heavy than it was in theatres.

However we've heard many instances in which a new track for homevid was created to better exploit the surrounds. They tend to also include a cleaned up original track for purists. So who knows what we'll get here. One would hope the mix would be more enveloping at least in the musical numbers.

I don't recall stating it would be louder, there'd just be more detail of sound cues from the left/center and right/center speakers. The first use of Dolby sound capabilities and mixing done for 70mm was 'Star Wars' and 'Close Encounters' where the additional two speakers were removed and additional bass was included, everything prior to 1977 6-track was akin to the Todd-AO five front speaker/mono surround configuration. Hmm, let me guess that legend was Robert Wise - his best movies 'Sound of Music' and 'West Side Story' on bluray sound nothing like the original 70mm 6-track sound mixes, the former adding way too much music into the surrounds..

[filmczy]

Originally Posted by Greycomm

And where was this? Sounds like someone's expecting a review copy they're in a hurry to sell. Good for you, though.

It actually is a retail copy. I've purchased several blu-ray discs from the seller. All are retail in original packaging and in mint condition.

[Greycomm]

Originally Posted by filmczy

It actually is a retail copy. I've purchased several blu-ray discs from the seller. All are retail in original packaging and in mint condition.

Just that your saying it's going to be used and played once sounds exactly like a reviewer selling off his copy (which is often the retail version and of course would be mint). Can't imagine who else would know in advance before release date they're only playing it once? Still lucky for you.

[RCRochester]

Yeah, that sounds kind of sketchy, I mean other than a reviewer who would have a single copy that is only watched once on release day that they are willing to pre-sell online?

[figrin_dan]

WowHD now have this for £24 + VAT which is a bit much for a blind buy for me. I think I'll wait for reviews and comparisons to the cheaper French version.

[Greycomm]

Release date delayed again to 8/23!

[Jobla]

At least Amazon's preorder price is down to something like $26.42, as of this writing.

[Greycomm]

Originally Posted by Jobla

At least Amazon's preorder price is down to something like $26.42, as of this writing.

The Kino site had it down to $23 and change, but tax and shipping brought it over $30. I didn't want enough other titles to get free shipping.

[EricHG]

Originally Posted by Paulo Elias

The last DVD release was incomplete because the Exit Music is missing.

More crucially it missed an important minute or so of the scene where Oscar dumps Charity. They must have found an oddly edited print (the French Bluray has the scene).

Sweet Charity - deleted scene - Shirley MacLaine - YouTube

I have the French disc but I suppose, depending on reviews/comparisons, I'll end up getting this as it's a fave film.

[Dubstar]

Amazon has an 'extra saving' deal that takes off an additional $5.23 at the moment.

[Greycomm]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

Amazon has an 'extra saving' deal that takes off an additional $5.23 at the moment.

So much for Amazon's pre-order price guarantee.

This required a cancellation and rebuy.

Thanks for the heads up.