Critical discussion Thread: Your thoughts on Kino-Lorber Blu-rays

[happydood]

I'm pretty fond of every Kino silent I own.

[Kino Lorber Insider]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Per request, I'm moving this discussion from the main KL thread:

Is there any word yet on BLACKMAIL?

The BFI-restored silent version looks stunning.

However, both included versions of the "talkie" version seem to have issues.

The version on disc 2, labelled as 1.20 (which would be the OAR), appears to be squished to around 1.10.

I'm unclear about the reason for the apparently stretched 1.33 version being included on disc 1.

I would definitely like to hear Kino's comments on this.



I'm not sure that's correct.

The version currently streaming on Vudu is 1.20:1, as shown in the caps here:

https://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?t=28489

The 2007 Optimum/Studiocanal UK DVD that I have is 1.20:1, there are caps of it here:

https://the.hitchcock.zone/wiki/Blac...sing_(UK,_2007)

You can click on any of the caps there and you'll see comparison caps from the 2002 German Arthaus DVD and the 2005 French Studiocanal DVD. They're all roughly 1.20:1 as well:

https://the.hitchcock.zone/cgi-bin/c...pl?compare=11d

The other caps are from older public domain versions, so they're not really useful.

It appears that every authorized release of the film has been approximately 1.20:1 up till now.

We released the master we received from Studiocanal. The UK boxed set released by Optimum back in 2007 includes Blackmail in the same ratio. There will not be any replacement program or recalls.

[Kino Lorber Insider]

Originally Posted by jcs913

Please mention to the 'higher ups' to slow down your output to a level where EVERY disc gets the proper QC. IMO, releasing more titles monthly than major studios do is a dangerous thing when you are a smaller company. Leads to a lot of problems that seems to be avoidable. I get that people want everything out that can be put out, but it leads to more issues later on. When several of these releases barely best the dvd, there is a problem somewhere. Please have the 'higher ups' think about the customer for more than a few minutes and not the profits.... Thanks.

Every release is QCd. Output has nothing to do with it.

Somethings are missed. QC people are warned to be more careful and replaced when it happens again.

[Kino Lorber Insider]

Originally Posted by Zygmunt22

Okay, so I guess I posted this originally in the wrong place...though I don't think there's anything more that can be added here. I noticed that the blu-ray of Billy the Kid vs. Dracula lacks proper day-for-night timing. Is it true that in the case of StudioCanal titles, Kino has no control over the masters? Very happy to see this get a Blu...not trying to beat them up over this one...but (obviously) the day for night stuff is off and was just curious as to why. I don't think Kino Lorber Insider will comment anymore on it but wondering if anyone else had anything to add.

This is a low budget movie restored by Studiocanal.

It depends where the film elements are stored, we remaster and oversee the ones stored in the US (Day of the Dolphin, Winter Kills, etc.) and they remaster all the ones in Europe.

[Kino Lorber Insider]

We reached out to StudioCanal again and asked them to confirm that we received the latest master for KIND HEARTS AND CORONETS and not an older one. They are in France and most likely on holiday, but we hope to hear back from them soon.

[DukeTogo84]

I really haven't had major issue with Kino releases. I own about 70 and all have been pretty good. I will say that there is an issue with Bitter Moon, but it's not major, but it is there.

I think the biggest issue I have with Kino is that Extreme Prejudice hasn't been announced yet.

[jrcasey1960]

Absolutely loved BILLY THE KID VS DRACULA. The same braided "hair piece" that doesn't match the actresses' graying hair is seen on both Virginia Christine and the town's female "doctor." Said "doctor" actually having a book on vampirism in her vast library of about 3 books. A scene at the end literally made me burst out into laughter (BTK's "gun play" with Dracula). I haven't had such a good time watching some movies that are actually classified as comedies. Didn't really notice the day for night shots, but if I had, they would added to the hilarity. This is one I'll definitely be revisiting!

[Kino Lorber Insider]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

I really haven't had major issue with Kino releases. I own about 70 and all have been pretty good. I will say that there is an issue with Bitter Moon, but it's not major, but it is there.

I think the biggest issue I have with Kino is that Extreme Prejudice hasn't been announced yet.

Lol

[Boggle]

Originally Posted by jrcasey1960

Absolutely loved BILLY THE KID VS DRACULA. The same braided "hair piece" that doesn't match the actresses' graying hair is seen on both Virginia Christine and the town's female "doctor." Said "doctor" actually having a book on vampirism in her vast library of about 3 books. A scene at the end literally made me burst out into laughter (BTK's "gun play" with Dracula). I haven't had such a good time watching some movies that are actually classified as comedies. Didn't really notice the day for night shots, but if I had, they would added to the hilarity. This is one I'll definitely be revisiting!

I had to rewind that scene a few times. Ridiculous! lol

[GeoffOliver]

I am listening to Tim Lucas’ (very informative) commentary for Blackmail on Kino’s Blu-ray right now. He mentions that the talkie version’s proper aspect ratio is 1.19:1. Make of that what you will.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Kino Lorber Insider

Lol

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Kino Lorber Insider

We released the master we received from Studiocanal. The UK boxed set released by Optimum back in 2007 includes Blackmail in the same ratio. There will not be any replacement program or recalls.

It's unfortunate to hear there will be no replacement program.

That's incorrect information about the 2007 Optimum/Studiocanal DVD though, it is most definitely about 1.19:1. I own it.

The linked caps from The Hitchcock Zone show this. In addition, here are two caps I just did off the disc that also show the image area is approx 683x576 pixels, giving an aspect ratio of 1.19:1:




The Hitchcock Zone caps also show that the German and French DVDs are roughly 1.19 as well.

[Se.Vero]

Originally Posted by Kino Lorber Insider

We released the master we received from Studiocanal. The UK boxed set released by Optimum back in 2007 includes Blackmail in the same ratio. There will not be any replacement program or recalls.

I own this box set, and that is simply false.
I quote one of your ex-presidents:
"You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

But as others have pointed out before, the solution is easy. No complaints, i will just stop purchasing.

[GeoffOliver]

Tim Lucas even explained why the talkie Blackmail had this very specific (1.19:1) aspect ratio. It was actually common with many early European talkies to allow more space for the sound to appear on the 35mm film reel. There are other films from the period you can compare this too.

I have now viewed the talkie version with both aspect ratios on the release (once with the commentary), and it’s definitely stretched one way or the other on both discs. It’s not always distracting (the 1.33:1 is somewhat more watchable), but sometimes it’s obvious that the image has been stretched.

[Dark Horse 77]

I know this is a Blu Ray forum but did anyone else purchase Nixon on DVD and try to listen to the Second Oliver Stone commentary? There is no commentary just the regular audio of the movie and I remember from an older release this being one of Stone's better ones.

[nitin]

You don’t need Tim Lucas, literally no movie ever has had an OAR of 1.10:1. More importantly, just by looking at the image, you can tell that the proportions have been squished. It’s not rocket science.

[James Luckard]

Unfortunately Kino has spoken, there will be no replacement.

More unfortunately, to my knowledge the Studiocanal master of the "talkie" version has only been released at the correct aspect ratio on DVD in Europe, meaning the discs all have PAL-speedup. I have the 2007 UK disc. There are also licensed German and French discs.

Lionsgate did not include Blackmail in their 2007 condensed boxset of the Studiocanal titles, which only included The Ring, The Manxman, Murder, The Skin Game, and Rich And Strange. To my knowledge Kino's BD is the first US release of the Studiocanal master of the "talkie" version.

I'm still curious about Kino's reason for including the apparently stretched 1.33 version on disc 1, and making this a 2-disc set, with what was intended to be the OAR version on disc 2. It presumably must have cost them more to have two discs and two "talkie" versions, but the packaging doesn't explain the choice.

Regardless, the Kino BD is still DEFINITELY worth picking up for the gorgeous BFI restoration of the silent version. To my knowledge, this is the first release that restoration has had anywhere, and it looks beautiful.

[spawningblue]

Can you please address The Interpreter issue? You've commented on Bitter Moon, King Hearts and Corenets, Alphaville, etc., but nothing has ever been mentioned about this release. The review on here, and many others, have started how the finale is pretty much unwatchable due to the strange choppy/blurry edits. Will this ever get a replacement? This isn't something that is barely noticeable. Thanks.

[Kino Lorber Insider]

Originally Posted by spawningblue

Can you please address The Interpreter issue? You've commented on Bitter Moon, King Hearts and Corenets, Alphaville, etc., but nothing has ever been mentioned about this release. The review on here, and many others, have started how the finale is pretty much unwatchable due to the strange choppy/blurry edits. Will this ever get a replacement? This isn't something that is barely noticeable. Thanks.

We have no plans of a replacement program for The Interpreter.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Unfortunately Kino has spoken, there will be no replacement.

They've also said it's the correct AR, which it clearly isn't.

They were also quite insistent that Kind Hearts was a brand new, never-before-seen 4K restoration, despite the fact that a) no such thing exists and b) it was clearly even older than the 4K restoration recently released in the UK.