Unreal Engine 5

[NARMAK]

The tech of UE5 is impressive for sure and the fact a circs $500 console is pulling that off is amazing too.

As Mavrick pointed out, PC upgrade cycles are like phones. Seem to come like every 12 months lol. So even though hardware on their side gets better and better, in terms of gaming, the engines sometimes can take up to 3 years to adapt to some of the newer features.

Also, regarding the 2080 Ti, i am very impressed these consoles have managed to extract almost equivalent performance to the best GPU which costs like double the price expected for the consoles. That said, we are on the verge of the 3000 series and the rumours about them and the ever changing PC goalposts are pretty ridiculous tbh.

I'd say PS5 is launching at a great time in 2020, because once it comes time again for Cerny & Co to start planning PS6 out, there's gonna be an amazing amount of options for an upgrade and generational leap again with faster NVMe drives, DDR4 RAM, better GPUs etc. even more catered for ray tracing.

It still blows my mind that they pulled off that level of lighting in the UE5 demo and no Ray Tracing was used.

[heyadol]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Regarding the complaints about this tech demo not running at 4K/60fps

Personally I wasn’t complaining, just trying to confirm what was being demoed.

This demo was not pushing millions of triangles. It wasn't pushing billions of triangles. It was pushing HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF TRIANGLES!

In Mark Cerny’s presentation he said they chose fewer cores because they have trouble keeping them occupied w/ enough tiny triangles, has UE5 already topped them off? When they inevitably demo this on an iPad Pro (A screen greater than 1440p but less than 4K) in a few months, will it be running at the native 120fps on ARM vs 30fps on AMD? Of course, if a PS5 costs as much as an iPad Pro ($799 and up), I’ll be waiting in a price reduction/slim. Or at least PSVR2...

I think instead of being underwhelmed, you should actually be very impressed considering what this demo (playable demo I might add) is doing.

The demo was overwhelming, but just to temper expectations we do realize the best looking parts weren’t playable, right? Everytime it looked really great was after a quick-time event and the the scripted scene takes over. It’s still in engine and impressive, and significantly better than “we expect it to look like this on Xbox” or whatever that caption was on MS’s reveal last week, but it is just like current games that look better after you press X and the game takes over. They have better tech doing it though, and UE5 intelligently adjusting vs having to switch to various LOD looks to be a huge benefit.

[Mavrick]

Heh

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

Heh

Fanboys of other platforms be saltier than Lot's wife!

[Mavrick]

PC Master Race is hurting right now. They won't have to wait long to catch up though, PC always wins in the end

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

PC Master Race is hurting right now. They won't have to wait long to catch up though, PC always wins in the end

Well sure, for the right price! That's the thing that PC gamers always so conveniently leave out of their argument. Sure, it's the master race so long as you're willing to spend a king's ransom to stay in it.

[NARMAK]

I don't even know why they bother responding to morons like that tbh. Ignore them and let them go back into their hiding spots rather than feeding them

I know PCs will always have the upper hand eventually in all areas, but for the price, consoles best them tike and time again

[Mavrick]

Epic And Microsoft Aren’t Saying Whether That Unreal PS5 Demo Can Run On Xbox Series X

Epic Games’ impressive Unreal 5 tech demo revealed earlier this week was running on a PS5 development kit. Whether it can also run on Xbox Series X remains a mystery.

“The demo we revealed [on Wednesday] is running on PS5 because that’s been our target platform for this particular experience,” a spokesperson for Epic told Kotaku in an email yesterday. “UE5, with core technologies like Niagara VFX and Chaos physics and destruction—and the newly revealed Nanite virtualized geometry and Lumen dynamic global illumination—is also targeting Xbox Series X.”

When pressed about if the demo was designed specifically for PS5 and couldn’t run on Xbox Series X the spokesperson simply said, “We aren’t running it on XBSX.”

Microsoft has been similarly vague about specifics while clearly wanting people to expect similar performance from their next machine. “The fidelity seen in the Unreal Engine 5 tech demo is something that people can expect for next gen gaming across devices,” a spokesperson for Microsoft told Kotaku in an email. “Developers around the world, including the majority of our 15 Xbox Game Studios teams, are using Unreal Engine to build their future projects. We look forward to partnering with Epic and working closely with Unreal 5 across our development teams when it releases in 2021.”

Epic’s roughly seven minute tech demo called “Lumen in the Land of Nanite” showed a woman traversing ancient ruins full of detailed textures and complex lighting effects. At the very end she even takes flight, zooming through the air as rocks fall and towers crumble, showing just how quickly the world around her could be rendered. And all of it—which Epic says is playable—was captured from a PS5 development kit.

But at no point during the presentation or afterwards did Epic mention the other next-gen console coming this fall, Xbox Series X. When prompted to compare the PS5’s capabilities to Microsoft’s console during an interview with Geoff Keighley, Epic CEO Tim Sweeney demurred. “We love all our of our babies and we can’t make comparisons or pick favorites,” he said.

Epic is a third-party company that does business with Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and many more game creators, but their presumed platform agnosticism came off more partisan on Wednesday thanks to their decision to tie their new game engine demo with PlayStation. That decision has sparked valid questions about what the two upcoming rival PlayStation and Xbox consoles are capable of and has spurred a new round of ridiculous one-upmanship between fans of the two companies.

Sony certainly wants people to watch that demo and assume such graphics are only possible on PS5. Microsoft, meanwhile, is conspicuously noting in their statement to Kotaku that Unreal Engine won’t even be out until 2021, meaning that what’s possible with that engine in that demo, wouldn’t show up on any new console until well after the late 2020 launch of Xbox Series X and PS5. That doesn’t mean the tech demo didn’t show us what the PS5 will be capable of, which leads to that still unanswered question: Can the new Xbox do that, too?

The irony is that many of Microsoft’s upcoming first-party games will be based in Unreal Engine. “Incredible work by the team at Epic @UnrealEngine, many of our XGS studios are using Unreal, like the team at Ninja Theory creating Hellblade II, and are excited to bring these UE5 innovations to life on Xbox Series X,” the head of Xbox, Phil Spencer, wrote on Twitter when the tech demo was revealed.

Aaron Greenberg, the head of Xbox marketing, was even more bullish on what the tech demo showed. “Super impressive and can only imagine what the new Unreal 5 Engine will look like on the world’s most powerful console,” he wrote on Twitter.

[NARMAK]

I chuckled at the MS responses and deflection

There's clearly a reason Epic showed the UE5 demo on a PS5 and not Series X though. I think it was the NVMe difference to stream assets in. Either way, Sony got a free win and they haven't personally lifted a finger yet lol

[JayTL]

And that's why I said what I said about tech demos. People will take any little bit of information to fit their narrative. I don't really see anything in that piece that shows deflection, to be honest.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by JayTL

And that's why I said what I said about tech demos. People will take any little bit of information to fit their narrative. I don't really see anything in that piece that shows deflection, to be honest.

Aaron Greenberg, the head of Xbox marketing, was even more bullish on what the tech demo showed. “Super impressive and can only imagine what the new Unreal 5 Engine will look like on the world’s most powerful console,” he wrote on Twitter.

Sounds like deflection from the criticism they got for the Inside Xbox "gameplay" backlash. You also aren't wrong, everything has an agenda to it which is why MS execs have spun this around for Series X benefit too. So yeah, guess they do.

[Mavrick]

The Unreal Engine 5 demo on PlayStation 5 was the culmination of years of discussions between Sony and Epic on future graphics and storage architectures.

The Nanite and Lumen tech powering it will be fully supported on both PS5 and Xbox Series X and will be awesome on both.

https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/s...10827162152960

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Regarding the complaints about this tech demo not running at 4K/60fps, I think you're sort of glossing over some of the things the guy said during the demo. This demo was not pushing millions of triangles. It wasn't pushing billions of triangles. It was pushing HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF TRIANGLES! All with cinematic quality 8K textures, dynamic global illumination, and spatialized audio. The fact that the PS5 was able to push all of that at 1440p/30fps to me is pretty damn impressive! Next gen consoles are powerful, but they're not limitless for Christ's sake. You are expecting WAYYYY too much if you think a 400-500.00 console is going to push all that tech at 4k/60fps. Besides that, your typical videogame is not going to be pushing all this tech any time soon! Not for a long while in fact. Even as good as current gen games like Uncharted 4 God of War, The Last of Us Part 2, Ghost of Tsushima, etc look. None of them are pushing this kind of tech. Not even close. I think instead of being underwhelmed, you should actually be very impressed considering what this demo (playable demo I might add) is doing.

I’d have to re-watch it again to get an exact quote but just after touting all them triangles & effects, he said something along lines of this doesn’t make the GPU, memory bandwidth etc need to work extra. It just works! 16x the detail!

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Derb

I’d have to re-watch it again to get an exact quote but just after touting all them triangles & effects, he said something along lines of this doesn’t make the GPU, memory bandwidth etc need to work extra. It just works! 16x the detail!

I dont buy that for a damn second.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

I dont buy that for a damn second.

And you shouldn't because it's to think somehow we suddenly have a leap in software rendering that makes GPU performance somehow increase that much. Instead it's just much smarter rendering techniques they're now able to string together than ever before but that still requires a beefy GPU & CPU to get the most out of. It's just more efficient than past techniques whilst keeping LOD higher.

[emailking]

I watched the demo. Whatever game that is I am pre-ordering day 1!

Originally Posted by Mavrick

If people want 60fps then they're going to have to come ro terms with the fact most games wont be native 4K.

They can be native 4K, they just need to not push out hundreds of billions of triangles.

4k/60 locked should be the starting point. Then make the game look as good as you can while maintaining that.

Like I get they don't care about this and are going to just go with checkerboard & 30 fps and turn up the graphics quality to the max, but I think they shouldn't.

[heyadol]

Originally Posted by emailking

They can be native 4K, they just need to not push out hundreds of billions of triangles.

4k/60 locked should be the starting point. Then make the game look as good as you can while maintaining that.

Like I get they don't care about this and are going to just go with checkerboard & 30 fps and turn up the graphics quality to the max, but I think they shouldn't.

Agreed, 4K/60 should be the nextgen baseline, but at least developers have been letting the user decide between better graphics and better performance for a lot of the high-profile games and I expect that will continue. I'm hoping the graphics option is 4k/60 and performance is 4k/120, but I'd be surprised to see much of that before the inevitable pro model is available.

[GeneticMutation]

Originally Posted by heyadol

Agreed, 4K/60 should be the nextgen baseline, but at least developers have been letting the user decide between better graphics and better performance for a lot of the high-profile games and I expect that will continue. I'm hoping the graphics option is 4k/60 and performance is 4k/120, but I'd be surprised to see much of that before the inevitable pro model is available.

IMO, I think it'll be more like Graphics 1440p/30 (maybe 60 variable) or Performance 1080p/60 (locked). I don't think either console will hit a stable 4K at 60FPS and there is no way they are going to hit 4K at 120FPS. Also, most consumer TV's only run at 60hz. It's only the high end TV's that have started making them 120hz.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by GeneticMutation

IMO, I think it'll be more like Graphics 1440p/30 (maybe 60 variable) or Performance 1080p/60 (locked). I don't think either console will hit a stable 4K at 60FPS and there is no way they are going to hit 4K at 120FPS. Also, most consumer TV's only run at 60hz. It's only the high end TV's that have started making them 120hz.

A game pushing the boundaries for visuals could use a DRS (Dynamic Resolution Scaling) like the UE5 demo and have an option to cap the framerate at one or multiple levels as well as completely uncapped. That gives them leeway for future hardware to boost performance.

Regarding performance for fps, 1080p @ 120fps should be more than possible depending on graphical settings they use as scaling down from native 4k usually helps force up how much FPS is gained considerably it seems. Let's not forget, in a closed system, the PS5 isn't too far off a 2080 Ti and Series X is probably even closer in raw terms. Those are GPUs that monster fps in excess of 240 with select settings.

Regarding most TVs being only 60hz, that's a bad way to future proof and although that will be the main target, mainly because they're unlikely to hit native 4k/60fps with bells and whistles, they should be leaving an uncapped option for future hardware given these titles should continue to be fully BC on x86 architecture. Also, HDMI 2.1 will become much more commonplace in the few years after these consoles release.

It's funny really to think here there's people arguing about a $500 console struggling to hit X, Y, Z performance targets and got smartphones and tablets already doing 120hz and 144hz on Fortnite. It's almost like a bad joke.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

It's funny really to think here there's people arguing about a $500 console struggling to hit X, Y, Z performance targets and got smartphones and tablets already doing 120hz and 144hz on Fortnite. It's almost like a bad joke.

Lol I'm not sure if I'd use Fortnite as the shining example of pushing the next gen graphical envelope.