The Conformist (1970) (New 4K Restoration) (Raro Video)

[Jexes23]

The site review is predictable because the outcome is predictable.

Everything Svet said is true.

Cineteca di Bologna and L'Immagine Ritrovata should NEVER do a 4K restoration of anything.

They are absolutely awful and turn everything they touch to shit.

[Nocheduro]

Originally Posted by nicwood

Re. Kino: Things could change now with their cheaper authoring house and Tarzi being more open to other types of films he wouldn't have considered earlier. He didn't specifically say other countries but why not.

The cheaper authoring house is concerning, means we are more likely to get dodgy encodes.

[Wtdk]

Originally Posted by Jexes23

The site review is predictable because the outcome is predictable.

Everything Svet said is true.

Cineteca di Bologna and L'Immagine Ritrovata should NEVER do a 4K restoration of anything.

They are absolutely awful and turn everything they touch to shit.

It’s rare that I agree with Sven but he is spot on in this assessment. The previous 2009 is vastly superior except for some minor anomalies. The look of the new transfer color wise isn’t ideal.

[Tuc0]

Originally Posted by dorian

Typical Svet yapping about the colour being wrong without offering a shred of evidence to support his assertions. The site should state clearly that his reviews are entirely his own opinion because it's borderline misinformation at this point.

I don't like how every single title is allways a flawed grading in his opinion but to be honest I have no doubt that this is a problematic release since it is a Ritrovata job. A house that brands it's restos with yellow push.

[Wtdk]

Originally Posted by Tuc0

I don't like how every single title is allways a flawed grading in his opinion but to be honest I have no doubt that this is a problematic release since it is a Ritrovata job. A house that brands it's restos with yellow push.

I have to agree in this case with him especially when compare to the 2009 blu-ray which was director/ cinematographer approved and had their involvement. To be fair, the restoration here has some merits but, IMHO, the negatives outweigh the positives. Just my two cents.

[Dr. Humbert]

Originally Posted by Tuc0

I don't like how every single title is allways a flawed grading in his opinion but to be honest I have no doubt that this is a problematic release since it is a Ritrovata job. A house that brands it's restos with yellow push.

I honestly don't understand why they continue to butcher their color gradings this way. Surely by now they should be aware what everyone thinks? Everytime I see the name Ritrovata I despair.

[Matt89]

So another Ritrovata botch job? Lovely.

This movie just continues to get the shaft it's so upsetting.

[Akrocine]

This guy is a clown !

Originally Posted by Akrocine

Here is the screencaps compare between the 4K UHD SDR italian bluray and the raro bluray. I down size the UHD caps in 1920x1080.

https://slow.pics/c/FGf8eaDG

The UHD is too dark, clearly missing the HDR.
There is a couple of scenes where the italian teal touch is problematic, but overall they did a great job.

And I confirm the out of sync in both italian and english

Fortunately, you can view the previous restoration as well, which is vastly superior. Yes, it does have some inconsistencies that could have been eliminated, plus it could have been encoded better, but it offers an all-around more satisfying presentation of The Conformist that does not compromise its native appearance.

WTF !

[grahams76]

I haven't seen the new restoration but the screenshots look much more convincing to me than the old Raro blu-ray, which I have seen. Hoping for an Arrow UHD though.

[edmoney]

Can anyone confirm whether disc 2 of this new release is just a re-pressing of the 2014 disc or uses the exact same encode (2014 disc was encoded with VC-1)? I also know there were image stability problems with the 2014 disc, sometimes leading to distorted images. I assume those issues still persist on disc 2 of the new release because they occurred during the mastering stage?

[M A]

Originally Posted by nicwood

No, not really to be honest. M A said that the lossless audio track doesn't have much information that isn't in the lossy track. See the other thread for more info.

I'm generally of the opinion that for a mono/stereo track of an older film, there really isn't any difference between a lossy and a lossless track.

So a lossy track may have a hard cut-off at 20kHz, but it's doubtful that the film will have information extending that high, and even it is did, noise reduction that will inevitably be applied will have removed it anyway.

The audio mastering for The Conformist that is on all the blu-rays and 4Ks (except the Arrow BD, which is much worse) has a cut-off at 14kHz, so a lossy track is perfectly acceptable.

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by Matt89

So another Ritrovata botch job? Lovely.

This movie just continues to get the shaft it's so upsetting.

Is one just better off with the Blu?

[Jexes23]

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

Is one just better off with the Blu?

Probably.

I have not bought any of their restorations since the first one I got but if you know what you're doing and you have a TV that you can calibrate you can make it look correct. But as a matter of principle it shouldn't be like that in the first place so I've stopped buying their botch jobs.

[Cecil B. DeMille]

Originally Posted by Jexes23

The site review is predictable because the outcome is predictable. [...]

Cineteca di Bologna and L'Immagine Ritrovata should NEVER do a ̶4̶K̶ restoration of anything.

FTFY

I guess the real question now is: Who is going to do a UK edition of the new 4K restoration. Radiance handle the distribution of Raro Video titles in the UK and do their own packaging and encodes. I could imagine that Fran Simeoni might undo the damage done by the restoration house as much as possible without going back to the original files. Arrow Academy did a commendable job correcting the color grading of Olmi's "The Tree of Wooden Clogs" under his helm. The Criterion features the yellow Ritrovata grading, whereas the Arrow was regraded to match an original release print.
At the moment, the Arrow disc of the old transfer is still in print though. I doubt that 2023 Arrow is interested in putting out a rerelease with the new 4K master.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by dorian

Typical Svet yapping about the colour being wrong without offering a shred of evidence to support his assertions. The site should state clearly that his reviews are entirely his own opinion because it's borderline misinformation at this point.

Do you also think jars of peanut butter should feature a warning that it may contain nuts?

[cgpublic]

Having already screened the original Raro Blu-ray and finding the overall presentation just okay, I picked up the new US release and screened the 4K restoration to find out if it was closer to ideal.

To my eyes, it simply comes down to preference. If you prefer a cool palette, artificially lit appearance that is more evocative of the original theatrical presentation and can accept the limitations of an inferior scan, that's your best bet.

If you prefer a warmer palette, more naturally lit appearance that is more inline with a modern restoration along with a superior master and audio, then the newer 4K presentation is more than likely to be closer to your ideal, especially if you have granular picture control.

With this latest release you have both options, and as The Conformist is a masterpiece, now you have an excellent reason to watch on multiple occasions and take your pick.

Perhaps a superior set will come down the road, but until then, this latest release has found a place on my shelf.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by Cecil B. DeMille

Arrow Academy did a commendable job correcting the color grading of Olmi's "The Tree of Wooden Clogs" under his helm. The Criterion features the yellow Ritrovata grading, whereas the Arrow was regraded to match an original release print.

Even in the case of the Criterion, they make a reference to a vintage print. Quoting from this site review:

L'albero degli zoccoli was restored from the original camera negative, scanned at 4K resolution, using a vintage 35m print preserved by Cinecitta Luce as a reference. Ermanno Olmi's active participation resulted in a new color grading.

[sidetracked1]

Originally Posted by Matt89

So another Ritrovata botch job? Lovely.

This movie just continues to get the shaft it's so upsetting.

Interestingly, over on the 4K Italian release thread the comments about the new grading run more positive. I have no dog in the fight, just trying to figure out the best version to get. But the disparities in opinion in this thread vs that are striking. From 'nicwood''s review;

"The color grade looks faithful and organic to me, not at all drenched in yellow. Skies do look white and there are certainly nuances in the images. Early reports have blown this out of proportion. I'd compare this to the recent Three Colors restorations, which seem to adhere more to the original look than revisionism. I think the same is the case here - the colors look beautiful and I wouldn't ever think about going to a previous master just like with the Three Colors films. Actually, Ritrovata did take a 2009 reference print signed off by both Bertolucci and Storaro as indicated in the text card before the film."

And a follow up comment from "M A"

"I have now seen this (v1) and have to concur with nicwood about the grading. It isn't a blanket yellow tint as there are many scenes without and yellow at all, so I have to assume the parts that are pushed more yellow than the old master are actually correct."

Of course, there could also be differences between the Italian 4K and the U.S. presentation of the 4K on blu-ray.

But over on the Criterion forum, writing about the new Kino, a member added;

"I received the Raro/Kino Lorber Blu-ray of the new 4K restoration of THE CONFORMIST and found it a marked improvement, especially color-wise. Many scenes have more pronounced tints, but they also have more robust color and frankly look more atmospheric. The older transfer often went for a neutral white balance, which I suspect was fighting against Storaro's use of colored filters and lighting since the image often looked quite desaturated, even anemic, as a result. The older transfer also had many clipped highlights. I've seen complaints about a "Ritrovata" look in the new restoration, but it's clear to me that they tried to give each scene/timeline a specific look. The grain and image stability also look superior in the new restoration. Svet's review seems way off base to me."

So I may be stuck with the 'collect 'em all!' approach and seeing for myself...

[Matt89]

Yup, I bought the disc back in December and have to agree, this is not the botch job I was expecting, and in fact it looks really nice overall. Certainly no blanket tint. I popped the old disc in just to compare and immediately it's evident that the 4K restoration excels in almost all areas over the prior BD.

[Mushi Minion]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Do you also think jars of peanut butter should feature a warning that it may contain nuts?

Sorry, are you aware of whom you're defending here?