Blood Simple (1984)

[RageATL]

Originally Posted by aschaeffer9

Looks like this is out in the world a little early. Anyone luck out and get one? Dying to know if there's any showstoppers

My copy arrives tomorrow.

[Monterey Jack]

Let us know if the Coens did any Miller's Crossing-style stealth revisions.

[RageATL]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

Let us know if the Coens did any Miller's Crossing-style stealth revisions.

I wouldn't know, despite being a Coen Bros. fan, I've never seen it.

[rocknblues81]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

Let us know if the Coens did any Miller's Crossing-style stealth revisions.

That's what I'm worried about.

[Monterey Jack]

Originally Posted by RageATL

I wouldn't know, despite being a Coen Bros. fan, I've never seen it.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by RageATL

I wouldn't know, despite being a Coen Bros. fan, I've never seen it.

You're in for a treat. Just expect something nearer to No Country on their spectrum. It's kinda bleak...

[5150z]

My 4K copy arrived tonight and just finished viewing. Aces! For those asking, it's the exact cut as the Criterion Blu-ray. Rest easy.
Viewed in Dolby Vision via a Sony X800M2(opted for the Sony over the Oppo 203) into a Sony 83A90J from a viewing distance of eight feet.. Having viewed the Criterion Blu a handful of times, this 4K trumps it across the board. Just a small handful of soft shots, but never detracts from the experience. Wonderful grain structure, sharper detail, blacks sublime, and very contrasty. No Digital manipulation by Criterion. Compression seems spot on too. The Blu-ray of this film is splendid, but this 4K should now be the preferred way to view this engaging film for optimum PQ. Audio sounds identical to the Blu-ray to my ears. Enjoy...

[samlop10]

Keep in mind the caps are converted to SDR, so brightness levels will not be the same in HDR10.


Comparison:





1.
2.
3.

MORE CAPS IN SPOILER:

[Show spoiler]

Just got done watching it. Overall, it is a passable 4K presentation. But there are compression issues, non-surprisingly, in brighter areas. Look at the brighter portions of the windows in the comparison of the 4K cap vs the 1080p one at the top. The 4K cap exhibits poor grain handling where portions of it turn into macroblocking, and other portions just drop the grain altogether (and the 1080p cap actually exhibits better grain rendering). Look at the fire and smoke of cap #1, you can see macroblocking and chroma errors. In #2 the grain also turns blocky in the sky. And in #3, again the window, the grain turns into compression artifacts, with the brighter portion having practically no grain.

Thankfully, the bulk of the film takes place in low light and deep shadows, and the grain does look nicely detailed and better refined there. The blacks are arguably a little too deep, with some mild crush compared to the previous standard blu also from Criterion (compare the shadow detail in the comparison at the top).

Fine detail is an upgrade though. Face closeups (if the camera was well focused), reveal a nice amount of skin pores. Clothing also looks more natural with better-rendered textures. There is also better depth to the image even if the HDR itself is pretty subtle (more on that below, DV and HDR10 are quite different). And even with the mild black crush, the deeper blacks do help it look more 3rd dimensional and less flat. The neon colors also look more vivid, even if not that much brighter, thanks to the better/wider color gamut.

Overall, it is difficult to outright recommend it, as it is a mix of good, bad, and uncertain qualities. Good: better fine detail and good compression in darker areas. Bad: compression artifacts in brighter/lighter portions where the film grain falters, quite badly at times. Uncertain: Deeper blacks that crush shadow detail. For the latter, it could be intentional as it does (at least imo) enhance the moody atmosphere of the film and strengthens the film's neo-noir elements. Also uncertain: HDR is weird.

In Dolby Vision you essentially get an SDR image inside an HDR container. Except for a few seconds in the opening credits, the brightness barely goes beyond 100 nits, and the metadata stays exactly the same afterwards for the rest of the film. In HDR10, the HDR is actually apparent, going as high as 600+ nits (see the graphs below). Not the brightest elements we have seen, but it does have more depth and brighter objects, with things like light through windows and some indoor lightning looking brighter. Not sure what happened here though; if whoever did the DV pass goofed, or if this was intentional (which would not make sense; why have the elements brighter in HDR10 but not in DV? It should be the other way around, if different at all. Or why make it look like an SDR transfer in DV but not in HDR10?).

Overall, YMMV, and I would lean towards a "not recommended" if you already own the previous Criterion blu-ray or Studio Canal blu-ray (and instead wait for a hopefully better 4K release from an international label) as those still look quite good, and the jump in quality here is not as obvious given the mix of good, bad, and uncertain/weird from the transfer on the 4K disc. It's not a disaster, but far from a reference disc at the same time. Really wished Criterion would get someone better to do their encodes. Not to mention the oddities between the DV and HDR10, i.e. in DV you're practically watching an SDR transfer.

If you do end up getting it though, I would recommend watching it in HDR10 to get an image with more depth. But otherwise, hopefully an international 4K disc with better compression isn't too far behind (and with a more consistent or sensical DV metadata).

[5150z]

Nice detailed, in-depth review Samlop. Thanks. I thought the compression was good. DV looked nice in motion. Have to watch in HDR10 now! Still believe the 4K to be the preferred way to view. As you eluded to, detail stood out to me. Look forward to what others have to say upon viewing! Cheers...

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by samlop10

Keep in mind the caps are converted to SDR, so brightness levels will not be the same in HDR10.


Just got done watching it. Overall, it is a passable 4K presentation. But there are compression issues, non-surprisingly, in brighter areas. Look at the brighter portions of the windows in the comparison of the 4K cap vs the 1080p one at the top. The 4K cap exhibits poor grain handling where portions of it turn into macroblocking, and other portions just drop the grain altogether (and the 1080p cap actually exhibits better grain rendering). Look at the fire and smoke of cap #1, you can see macroblocking and chroma errors. In #2 the grain also turns blocky in the sky. And in #3, again the window, the grain turns into compression artifacts, with the brighter portion having practically no grain.

Thankfully, the bulk of the film takes place in low light and deep shadows, and the grain does look nicely detailed and better refined there. The blacks are arguably a little too deep, with some mild crush compared to the previous standard blu also from Criterion (compare the shadow detail in the comparison at the top).

Fine detail is an upgrade though. Face closeups (if the camera was well focused), reveal a nice amount of skin pores. Clothing also looks more natural with better-rendered textures. There is also better depth to the image even if the HDR itself is pretty subtle (more on that below, DV and HDR10 are quite different). And even with the mild black crush, the deeper blacks do help it look more 3rd dimensional and less flat. The neon colors also look more vivid, even if not that much brighter, thanks to the better/wider color gamut.

Overall, it is difficult to outright recommend it, as it is a mix of good, bad, and uncertain qualities. Good: better fine detail and good compression in darker areas. Bad: compression artifacts in brighter/lighter portions where the film grain falters, quite badly at times. Uncertain: Deeper blacks that crush shadow detail. For the latter, it could be intentional as it does (at least imo) enhance the moody atmosphere of the film and strengthens the film's neo-noir elements. Also uncertain: HDR is weird.

In Dolby Vision you essentially get an SDR image inside an HDR container. Except for a few seconds in the opening credits, the brightness barely goes beyond 100 nits, and the metadata stays exactly the same afterwards for the rest of the film. In HDR10, the HDR is actually apparent, going as high as 600+ nits (see the graphs below). Not the brightest elements we have seen, but it does have more depth and brighter objects, with things like light through windows and some indoor lightning looking brighter. Not sure what happened here though; if whoever did the DV pass goofed, or if this was intentional (which would not make sense; why have the elements brighter in HDR10 but not in DV? It should be the other way around, if different at all. Or why make it look like an SDR transfer in DV but not in HDR10?).

Overall, YMMV, and I would lean towards a "not recommended" if you already own the previous Criterion blu-ray or Studio Canal blu-ray (and instead wait for a hopefully better 4K release from an international label) as those still look quite good, and the jump in quality here is not as obvious given the mix of good, bad, and uncertain/weird from the transfer on the 4K disc. It's not a disaster, but far from a reference disc at the same time. Really wished Criterion would get someone better to do their encodes. Not to mention the oddities between the DV and HDR10, i.e. in DV you're practically watching an SDR transfer.

If you do end up getting it though, I would recommend watching it in HDR10 to get an image with more depth. But otherwise, hopefully an international 4K disc with better compression isn't too far behind (and with a more consistent or sensical DV metadata).

Thank you for this insightful review and the caps, samlop. The compression issues and the seemingly improperly managed DV layer are certainly disappointing. I hoped and thought that Criterion learned something from Walkabout but this is not much different with severe highlight clipping and general compression issues with larger areas.

How is the difference between HDR10 and DV when it comes to the encode? Does the FEL layer "fix" what looks poorly in HDR10? In that case, I’d definitely prefer watching the film in DV over HDR10 despite the luminance differences.

[StingingVelvet]

I definitely like the 4k shot above more than the 1080p one, after saving them and flipping back and forth. The HDR brightness thing is SUPER interesting though, eager to have this show up today and test out both modes.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by nicwood

Thank you for this insightful review and the caps, samlop. The compression issues and the seemingly improperly managed DV layer are certainly disappointing. I hoped and thought that Criterion learned something from Walkabout but this is not much different with severe highlight clipping and general compression issues with larger areas.

How is the difference between HDR10 and DV when it comes to the encode? Does the FEL layer "fix" what looks poorly in HDR10? In that case, I’d definitely prefer watching the film in DV over HDR10 despite the luminance differences.

I’ll try to check soon whenever i have time. Keep in mind Studio Canal did the standard blu for the European standard blu using the same restoration as Criterion for their standard blu, so they might do the same for a 4K release over there in the near future.

[jordanwalkert]

Did anyone order theirs from DiabolikDVD? My order status says backordered and still shows up as a preorder. Usually they ship out a few days early.

[tama]

Originally Posted by samlop10

I’ll try to check soon whenever i have time. Keep in mind Studio Canal did the standard blu for the European standard blu using the same restoration as Criterion for their standard blu, so they might do the same for a 4K release over there in the near future.

Who is the authoring house in the booklet?

I'll personally pass if the DV is bjorked and with compression issues in HDR10.

[BluProofie]

Thought this looked excellent. Compression looked nice to me.

[HuggyBear73]

Originally Posted by jordanwalkert

Did anyone order theirs from DiabolikDVD? My order status says backordered and still shows up as a preorder. Usually they ship out a few days early.

Received mine yesterday from diabolik.

[DaylightsEnd]

I watched portions of this disc today at my neighbor's house. We also compared it briefly to my StudioCanal blu. I was disappointed to see a mixed bag of mushy grain, missing grain, some chroma noise/noisy skies, etc. in various brighter scenes, and some new instances of black crush or at least increased solidification over the old blu, in darker areas and dark features. I came here to mention my observations but I notice others are already seeing the same thing.

This 4k disc looks better than a blu ray as one would naturally expect, but once again, CC serves up a naff encode. It's something I can't look past. Add this to the list of CC discs I won't be purchasing. They simply refuse to obtain competent encoding services. Undoubtedly, some other label will master this title properly in uhd, and I'll scoop it then.

[tylergfoster]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

Let us know if the Coens did any Miller's Crossing-style stealth revisions.

This was already answered, but if I remember correctly, they did some Miller's Crossing-style revisions when they did the Blu-ray. The only difference is, they didn't cut any dialogue they hadn't already cut for the Director's Cut theatrical release, so it didn't stand out to people -- don't forget, that even Miller's Crossing had a lot of insignificant timing cuts throughout the whole thing on top of that one "Jesus, Tom" being cut. (Not as important because it's clean, and it feels like a supplement, but I mean, one obvious difference with Blood Simple is that the Mortimer Young intro is gone, whereas I recall it was part of the feature on the Fox and MGM Blu-rays, and the Universal DVD before it.)

[5150z]

Originally Posted by tama

Who is the authoring house in the booklet?

Disc Mastering: NexSpec

Quality control and Image Restoration: only several names listed. No company.

[tama]

Originally Posted by 5150z

Disc Mastering: NexSpec

Quality control and Image Restoration: only several names listed. No company.

Nexspec are the same dummies that encoded Walkabout. Based on what samlop10 posted I wouldn't be surprised if the DV on the disc was bjorked.