1080p: high-res make movies look cheap & fake? (Actually frame rate TV interpolation)

[Steelmaker]

Ok, so let me make sure I have this right because I'm not sure if I'm totally clear on this...

1.) 120hz and "motion flow" or "motion enhancement" technologies are totally separate things, completely independent of one another, right?

2.) Motion enhancment is what is attributed to the "fake" or "soap opera" look that we see on display screens at BB or CC, NOT 120hz, right??

3.) With 120hz turned ON, and motion enhancment turned OFF, you get a nice smooth display without flicker and without the soap opera look, right?? What happens if you turn 120hz off and motion enhancement on or is that even an option?

4.) Ok, so assuming the above 3 are correct, how do 120hz and 24p relate to one another? If you have a tv that supports 120hz and a PS3, should you have the 120hz enabled and the 24p enabled on the PS3? Is it possible for a set to support 120hz, yet not support 24p??

God bless!! Sometimes I miss the good ol' days of TV when the only settings you had to mess with were color, tint, sharpness, brightness, and contrast!

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Ok, so let me make sure I have this right because I'm not sure if I'm totally clear on this...

1.) 120hz and "motion flow" or "motion enhancement" technologies are totally separate things, completely independent of one another, right?

Even 50/60hz TVs can have motion enhancement technologies.
The 100hz or 120hz refresh rates allow the TV to do the type of motion enhancement where it creates "in-between" frames between real frames to make/try to make motion appear smoother and less juddery or more natural.

Samsung actually call their technology "100hz Motion Plus" or "120hz Motion Plus" (100 or 120 depending on whether you're in Europe or the US.

2.) Motion enhancment is what is attributed to the "fake" or "soap opera" look that we see on display screens at BB or CC, NOT 120hz, right??

Yes, but the higher refresh rate allows the type of motion enhancement with in-between frames

3.) With 120hz turned ON, and motion enhancment turned OFF, you get a nice smooth display without flicker and without the soap opera look, right?? What happens if you turn 120hz off and motion enhancement on or is that even an option?

100 or 120hz is always on on these TVs. That's the TVs refresh rate. You can't turn it off.

4.) Ok, so assuming the above 3 are correct, how do 120hz and 24p relate to one another? If you have a tv that supports 120hz and a PS3, should you have the 120hz enabled and the 24p enabled on the PS3? ?

120hz allows the TV to display 24p sources without the added 3:2 pulldown judder that you'd get normally on a 60hz set. With Motion Plus turned off, it just displays the same frame 5 times (24x5=120), so no added 3:2 pulldown judder and it looks like it's running at the real 24fps (you'll still get some judder due to the 24fps frame rate+camera shutter angle but that's in the movie itself.

Is it possible for a set to support 120hz, yet not support 24p?

I suppose it could be theoritcally possible, but I'd guess that all 120hz HDTVs can accept 24p sources and display them (I assume they all display them correctly but who knows - that's the idea anyway).

[Anti-SD]

Originally Posted by drago3451

It is not the 120 hz that is giving you the effect. Read the above posts.

Sorry, I meant the motion flow.

[Beta Man]

Ever since movies began being presented in color, I thought they looked "Fake"..... why didn't they just stick to monochrome, the way the world really is

[Steelmaker]

Ok, 2 more questions here folks.

My current set is a Sony KDS 60A2000. It does not support 120hz, nor 24p. How much of a disadvantage does my set have when compared to the newer sets that do support these features? Is the difference really worth upgrading? To be honest, I just don't understand because to my eyes, the picture looks gorgeous on my set. I don't really notice flicker or judder when watching movies and to me, sports look great on it too.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Ok, 2 more questions here folks.

My current set is a Sony KDS 60A2000. It does not support 120hz, nor 24p. How much of a disadvantage does my set have when compared to the newer sets that do support these features? Is the difference really worth upgrading? To be honest, I just don't understand because to my eyes, the picture looks gorgeous on my set. I don't really notice flicker or judder when watching movies and to me, sports look great on it too.

If it looks gorgeous to you..... why would you pay more to replace it?????


Don't upgrade.... ..... until you're ready for a bigger set

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

If it looks gorgeous to you..... why would you pay more to replace it?????


Don't upgrade.... ..... until you're ready for a bigger set

Ha! I'm not going bigger! If anything, my next set will be slightly smaller, probably a 50-55" set. The 60" looked much smaller in the showroom. Once I got it in my tv room, it looks enormous! I sit approximately 7 feet from the TV so I'm pushing it already.

[PNKLoud]

I'm glad I'm not the only person who has thought this. I saw Transformers on Blu at my local Best Buy. It looked like a video game that was 3D. It looked fake though. It looked cool but my TV doesn't look like that so I thought something was wrong with my set. I tried my copy (BD of course) on my JVC RPTV and Sony 550 and it definitely looks more film-like... warmer and more professional. Mine is a 60hz set.

[Col. Zombie]

Originally Posted by jsub

I have a 1080i at home and went to some stores to check out the 1080p sets. I know its double the resolution. However, after watching the same Blu-rays I own at home at the store, it seems like every movie looks so real that it doesn't look like a movie anymore.

Everything looks like a cheap documentary or news report or theatrical play. I can't explain it. It seems the quality is too realistic to a fault. Batman Begins and ID4 both looked fake, especially the live action sequences. I thought I was watching a "making of" documentary during the Tumbler sequence through Gotham.

Does anybody know what I'm talking about? I'd prefer to stick with 1080i if my movies are going to look cheap with the double resolution.

I know exactly what the OP is talking about. I think his illustration of the "documentary" best describes what I have seen in some of the 1080p televisions. It does almost look unreal and something about the flow of movement on the screen doesn't appear natural.

For instance, I was in a local Best Buy a few days ago and they were playing Transformers on one of these TVs and the video of the movie looked more like a doccumentary than the actual movie looks on other 1080p TVs (such as mine).

Don't get me wrong, the picture was clear, it was crisp and vibrant, but something about it just didn't look right compared to the other TVs around it. The idiotic salesperson (idiotic b/c he was condescending) couldn't explain to me why it looked so different on that particular model than the others (even though he should have known, since he works there). Basically, he could not tell me what that one had that the other TVs didn't.

[jpthomas27]

Not sure were to start...

First, your logic is all out of wack!! It either looks real or it doesn't, there is no such thing as "too real"; it makes no sense!

Second, 1080p is is not double the resolution as 1080i, it's exactly the same resolution..1080. The difference between progressive and interlaced is very subtle to the novice, honestly, you probably couldn't even tell the difference, specially if you are comparing them using two different TVs.

Third, the type of TV is a huge factor here. If you were looking at an LCD and thought it was "too real", you need to look at the same picture on a plasma, it will look much more natural. LCD's in my opinion are way too sharp and way too bright by nature. Then add to that the stores usually jack up the color, brightness, contrast and sharpness the pictures in the storee are horrible in my opinion.

In the end, I think you need to some more research and really figure out what it is your looking at. Make sure your comparing apples to apples, before you start comparing them to oranges. Once you get all the correct information on the differences between types of TVs, resolution and so on, you will see that 1080p is certainly not worse looking than 1080i.

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by jpthomas27

Second, 1080p is is not double the resolution as 1080i, it's exactly the same resolution..1080.

Yeah but 1080p60 has twice the motion resolution as 1080i60 (or 1080i30 depending on what people call it). Twice the number of lines updated per second. Not that 1080p60 is in the Blu-ray specs - though that is what Blu-ray players can output - but not decode - just saying

[Russell_L]

Originally Posted by PNKLoud

I'm glad I'm not the only person who has thought this. I saw Transformers on Blu at my local Best Buy. It looked like a video game that was 3D. It looked fake though. It looked cool but my TV doesn't look like that so I thought something was wrong with my set. I tried my copy (BD of course) on my JVC RPTV and Sony 550 and it definitely looks more film-like... warmer and more professional. Mine is a 60hz set.

Originally Posted by Col.Zombie

I know exactly what the OP is talking about. I think his illustration of the "documentary" best describes what I have seen in some of the 1080p televisions. It does almost look unreal and something about the flow of movement on the screen doesn't appear natural.

For instance, I was in a local Best Buy a few days ago and they were playing Transformers on one of these TVs and the video of the movie looked more like a doccumentary than the actual movie looks on other 1080p TVs (such as mine).

Don't get me wrong, the picture was clear, it was crisp and vibrant, but something about it just didn't look right compared to the other TVs around it. The idiotic salesperson (idiotic b/c he was condescending) couldn't explain to me why it looked so different on that particular model than the others (even though he should have known, since he works there). Basically, he could not tell me what that one had that the other TVs didn't.

I also saw 'Transformers' at BB (though I believe they were playing the HD DVD, as it had yet to come out on Blu) and I thought it looked exactly as described by these 2 posters. It looked cartoon-like to the point where I truly thought it was an animated film I was watching. (I had never seen 'Transformers' before and so did not recognize it.) When I finally got my copy on Blu and played it at home, it looked nothing like what I saw at BB. (It was more smooth and film-like, though still obviously 'stylized'.) Evidently the display at BB had its settings in torch mode, which made this already contrasty film look way over the top.

[Midland]

I was pretty disappointed wit swordfish, looked pretty damn cheesy 2 me. Especially near the end when the helicopter blows up. I love blu ray but it has ruined some movies for me, i went 2 see how the first underworld looked on it on my tv, and the sets looked fake, the punches they threw n everything in general especially at the final scene of the movie

[SkillzthatKillz]

Originally Posted by jsub

I have a 1080i at home and went to some stores to check out the 1080p sets. I know its double the resolution. However, after watching the same Blu-rays I own at home at the store, it seems like every movie looks so real that it doesn't look like a movie anymore.

Everything looks like a cheap documentary or news report or theatrical play. I can't explain it. It seems the quality is too realistic to a fault. Batman Begins and ID4 both looked fake, especially the live action sequences. I thought I was watching a "making of" documentary during the Tumbler sequence through Gotham.

Does anybody know what I'm talking about? I'd prefer to stick with 1080i if my movies are going to look cheap with the double resolution.

let me guess, you were at your local best buy and they had the samsung 6 series LCD's out in front of the HT section and they were playing demo discs. am i right? i used to work at a best buy and they always had the 120hz LCD's with the motion enhancing effects all the way up playing those blu-ray demo discs. i would bet 100 bucks thats what you saw. 1080p will just make the movie look clearer and thus more realistic, not make it look "fake" as you described

[RustyK94]

Why are we debating something we all know to be false

[b0bby]

stores gotta catch your attention with something right? as others posted what you saw was definitely store manipulation with the 120hz sets. if you notice stores like bestbuy, all their endcap displays are 120hz LCDs. if you watch there 1 plasma home theater setup you wont see this mess.

[Midnightsailor]

You were definitely looking at a tv with some sort of motion enhancer on. It makes everything look like a soap opera.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by RustyK94

Why are we debating something we all know to be false

[jsub]

Originally Posted by SkillzthatKillz

let me guess, you were at your local best buy and they had the samsung 6 series LCD's out in front of the HT section and they were playing demo discs. am i right? i used to work at a best buy and they always had the 120hz LCD's with the motion enhancing effects all the way up playing those blu-ray demo discs. i would bet 100 bucks thats what you saw. 1080p will just make the movie look clearer and thus more realistic, not make it look "fake" as you described

It's not just Best Buy. I saw the same thing at Circuit City and Costco, which made me question whether it was the progressive scan that was causing this look. I didnt state anything untrue, I stated what I saw and I asked a valid question.

[GGX]

Store displays are the absolute worse thing you can go by for an accurate representation of Blu-ray. Or if shopping for a TV In general. Store displays are set to "torch mode" which is where the brightness and contrast are maxed out.