Disney and DTS MA

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by aiman04

I'm not comparing the audio between the two titles. I'm referring the comparison the reviewers made between the different audio tracks of the same title.

I read "carefully". The titles in question use 16-bit PCM and 20/24-bit TrueHD, so it isn't the exact same comparison.

The glass breaking sounded more natural and of course louder on the PCM as opposed to the TrueHD, which just sounded drowned out.

Or maybe you like the "edgier" downrezzed 16-bit sound, as opposed to the original 24-bit master which the TrueHD track replicates.

Audiophiles have complained for years about 16-bit CDs and are much happier with 24-bit DVD-Audio versions.

[ajmrowland]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I read "carefully". The titles in question use 16-bit PCM and 20/24-bit TrueHD, so it isn't the exact same comparison.



Or maybe you like the "edgier" downrezzed 16-bit sound, as opposed to the original 24-bit master which the TrueHD track replicates.

Audiophiles have complained for years about 16-bit CDs and are much happier with 24-bit DVD-Audio versions.

Yet, DVD Audio is not on any shelves I've seen.

[Michael.Schinke]

Originally Posted by ajmrowland

Yet, DVD Audio is not on any shelves I've seen.

Not a quality issue but a marketing and adoption issue.

Check out this article comparing all the available codecs to the original PCM tracks at both the Dolby and DTS labs.

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...compressed_PCM

[ajmrowland]

Originally Posted by Michael.Schinke

Not a quality issue but a marketing and adoption issue.

Check out this article comparing all the available codecs to the original PCM tracks at both the Dolby and DTS labs.

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...compressed_PCM

I know. I'm just saying it's too bad for them.

The article is interesting. I'd like to see(or hear of) them do something similar, comparing PCM, DTS-HD, and TruHD, though, as that's what most people are arguing about.

[Pseudoblu]

People debate this a lot and some see or hear no difference... a matter of personal preference and for me it's always DTS... I find it more defined and bass is superb... I am not happy with many TrueHD tracks and Iron man is #1 on that list.. I think WB is the worst as they use truehd a lot but even skip the HD sound in many instances and that makes no GD sense to me..
7.1 DTSMA is the best of the best imo and Disney , Universal utilize... I love Fox as well but they from what I have seen stick to the 5.1... but Disney changing to DTS is a very nice move... especially with Wall-E... Sounds great.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by aiman04

They're all lossless, so all the details are the same. That's what lossless is all about, details, bit-by-bit from the studio masters.

However, all tracks could be different in term of loudness dB, EQ, sound imaging, ambience, etc that makes them different. The PCM is just what the movie's sound engineer has done in the studio. But DTS/Dolby could apply their own standards when the PCM was sent to them to encode.

On Fifth Element Remastered, both PCM and Dolby TrueHD are on the disc, I can hear the difference between both. You can also compare both releases of Casino Royale, even the reviewer on this site said it's different.

The Fifth Element (Remastered) Review by Ben Wlliams
Casino Royale: Collector's Edition Review by Greg Maltz

I know how it all works, and I believe on The Fifth Element, PCM is 16-Bit and then the Dolby TrueHD track is 20-Bit. You can also hear a difference on Spider-Man 3, Surf's Up and a few more which have 16-Bit PCM tracks and 24-Bit Dolby TrueHD tracks.

But none of that proves that DTS is better in any way. Each track is supposed to recreate the master. Paramount makes their TrueHD tracks quieter, but still keeps the track a 24-Bit one. WB makes the tracks quieter and makes them 16-Bit. Neither of those things though, make Dolby TrueHD inferior in any way. It's just that they're not using the codecs properly. The people using DTS seem to be keeping the tracks at 24-Bit. If you look at the studios doing each thing, you'll see a track record.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Pseudoblu

I am not happy with many TrueHD tracks and Iron man is #1 on that list..

Who's taking bets he has Night Mode (dynamic range compression) set to "On" or "Auto"?

[Pseudoblu]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Who's taking bets he has Night Mode (dynamic range compression) set to "On" or "Auto"?

I was late on fixing that problem I'll admit... but it has been corrected and It just seems weak to me... I know I am in the minority in that thinking and hate when I try to compare it to other movies as all are mastered differently.. but I can't seem to get over the quiet or lack of BOOM behind gun fire and explosions...

[Jeff Kleist]

Turn all the Paramount titles up about 5-6db. They're mastered at low volume but once you match they're good to go

[ryoohki]

Well Cloverfield TrueHD track is just awesome. It's one of my reference tracks personnally..

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Woody

If your DTSMA movies were compressed in Dolby THD, you wouldnt hear a difference.

Millions? Come on man. I doubt millions even have the ability to enjoy lossless, much less share your opinion.

We are no longer talking about DVD here folks.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Millions?

Seeing as the biggest selling title is Iron Man is only now approaching the one million figure (and is TrueHD) and the most likely biggest Blu title ever will be The Dark Knight (again, TrueHD) and that the majority of standalones support either native TrueHD decoding/bitstreaming and not always DTS-HD MA...

Someone cited The Fifth Element and Casino Royale...they are different masterings for the TrueHD tracks: Fifth Element is 20-bit and Casino Royale is 24-bit (and our own Greg Maltz preferred the TrueHD, read the review carefully).

Heh wow guys i was being sarcastic about the millions whats wrong you, stop acting like you didn't know that.

But the point is DTS just sounds better overall, people like you guys have been arguing thats its not for a long time. your not going to change alot of peoples minds ( is that better than saying millions)about dts, we know what we like.

[Canada]

Originally Posted by saprano

Oh wow im not hearing things, my dts and PCM movies sound better than the TrueHD ones...period! i guess me and the other millions of people who feel the same are crazy.

Well I for the record are not one of them.

Pcm on 300 sounds better than the Dolby True HD and the DTS MA on Top Gun sounds better than the True HD. I am sure some differences exist on the Spiderman 3 PCM sound track but I have not heard them.

[LembasBread]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Paramount makes their TrueHD tracks quieter, but still keeps the track a 24-Bit one. WB makes the tracks quieter and makes them 16-Bit. Neither of those things though, make Dolby TrueHD inferior in any way. It's just that they're not using the codecs properly.

It actually means they're mastering at the proper -20dbFS reference level for film. That's a good thing. It's nice to see that not everyone is squashing the snot out of their mixes w/ a hard ceiling limiter and slapping it on the disc. Paramount has been great about keeping w/ this practice except for the 6.1 mix on Top Gun: it sounds like someone squashed it to the point of distortion (especially audible in the LFE channel) which would partially account for the discrepancy in the two lossless mixes on that disc (the other would be that they're obviously two completely different mixes with one being 6.1 and all).

Remember, psychoacoustically, louder is better (also a major problem w/ modern records but that's a different battle)

[Woody]

Originally Posted by saprano

Heh wow guys i was being sarcastic about the millions whats wrong you, stop acting like you didn't know that.

But the point is DTS just sounds better overall, people like you guys have been arguing thats its not for a long time. your not going to change alot of peoples minds ( is that better than saying millions)about dts, we know what we like.

It's really not even a discussion of merit. It is what it is.

If Hellboy II (for instance) was in THD 7.1, it would sound the exact same as the existing DTSMA track (if they were recorded at the same bitrate, level, and no dialnorm was used)

Folks clinging to "DTS sounds better" just have never gotten over the lossy tracks that are on DVDs. DTS used to sound better (I would argue 95% of people couldnt even hear that difference, but I digress) but those days are gone.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by bajor27

And to stay on topic, I hope Disney continues with DTS HD-MA on releases as it offers those without the capability for lossless a better soundtrack

Exactly! I love studios who use DTS HD/MA - cause I know it will be the best sound presentation I can get until I upgrade my reciever for lossless.

I really hope Disney goes DTS exclusively (especially with 7.1).

[Woody]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

Exactly! I love studios who use DTS HD/MA - cause I know it will be the best sound presentation I can get until I upgrade my reciever for lossless.

I really hope Disney goes DTS exclusively (especially with 7.1).

Now THAT is a real-world benefit of DTSMA.

[Scorxpion]

Originally Posted by Woody

Now THAT is a real-world benefit of DTSMA.

And for this special reason Blu-Ray disc exist.I'm with Disney using DTSHDMA.

Four Studios are using DTSHDMA Disney,Universal Studios,FOX and Lionsgate.

Three Other major Studios are using DolbyTrueHD Sony,Paramount and Warner Bros.

The result is....

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Canada

Well I for the record are not one of them.
Pcm on 300 sounds better than the Dolby True HD and the DTS MA on Top Gun sounds better than the True HD. I am sure some differences exist on the Spiderman 3 PCM sound track but I have not heard them.

As it needs to be pointed out again:
300 uses DialNorm so there is a large difference in reference level.
Top Gun is a different mix, a 6.1 remix made in 2006, the TrueHD is the original 5.1 mix from 1986.
Spider-Man 3 is 24-bit TrueHD, the PCM is 16-bit.

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

Exactly! I love studios who use DTS HD/MA - cause I know it will be the best sound presentation I can get until I upgrade my reciever for lossless.

I really hope Disney goes DTS exclusively (especially with 7.1).

Here we go.

DD @640kbps is every "bit" as transparent to the master as 1536 DTS. Not to mention far more compatible with many more devices on the market, including TVs and PCs.

I have several different BD platforms in my household and hope Disney uses TrueHD like they did for Nightmare Before Christmas. Not to mention Night Mode is handy.

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

And for this special reason Blu-Ray disc exist.I'm with Disney using DTSHDMA.

Four Studios are using DTSHDMA Disney,Universal Studios,FOX and Lionsgate.

Three Other major Studios are using DolbyTrueHD Sony,Paramount and Warner Bros.

The result is....

Lionsgate a major studio?

Might as well add Weinstein then: TrueHD.
Starz/Anchor Bay: TrueHD.

[view-it-blu]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Here we go.

DD @640kbps is every "bit" as transparent to the master as 1536 DTS. Not to mention far more compatible with many more devices on the market, including TVs and PCs.

It is every "bit" after volume matching 1/2 dozen other things. How many "normal" people do you know that are going to go threw this on every DD title?

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I have several different BD platforms in my household and hope Disney uses TrueHD like they did for Nightmare Before Christmas. Not to mention Night Mode is handy.

Doesn't look like it.

"Hannah Montana And Miley Cyrus: Best Of Both Worlds Concert Tour" 7.1 DTS HD-MA
"The Nightmare Before Christmas" TrueHD 7.1
"Sleeping Beauty" 7.1 DTS HD-MA
"Wall•E" 6.1 DTS HD-MA
"The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian" 7.1 DTS HD-MA

I see a trend. Do you see it?

From the looks of it they tried it, and they didn't like it.

So out of 8 major studios that's...

DTS
Disney?
FOX
Lionsgate
MGM
Universal

DD
Paramount
SONY
WB

[saprano]

haha yea i think disney already has there mind made up, dts is it, sorry dolby.