How Good Is The US "Hulk" Blu-Ray?

[rubystone356]

Hulk 2003 is a fine film. I like it more then the 2008 version. glad to see that other fans like the original 2003. I own the bluray of hulk 2003. Its just awesome.. one of the best blurays that I had seen. you will not be dispointed.

Jacob

[JimShaw]

I personally did not care for the movie.

I love keeping DVDs and Blus for my library. The Hulk is the only Blu that I have sold after purchasing and viewing because I knew I would never watch it again.

[Monkey_Boy]

Originally Posted by jasonbird

Now I understand.

You might just have a selective memory when it comes to Hulk.

Maybe so, but I find it extremely weird that Ang Lee's "HulK" actually lined up with my own "misconceptions". That's why I believe there's a comic out there where The Hulk of Lee's movie actually existed. As I've typed, I've always "known" that he grew with his anger and Lee's movie seemed to confirm this.

Remember the movie takes place early on in the life of the Hulk. That's why Banner wasn't sure what triggered the changes. If you were with the love of your life, and you weren't sure you'd kill her...scratch that, if you had .000000000001% doubt. Think about it (realistically). Again, if someone can show me in the comics where Bruce had intercourse (while not in total control) then I'll personally write a letter to Letterier calling him a dumbass.

That's the thing, it never came up in the comics (that I've read) and it shouldn't have come up in the movie! Like I typed, it was a confusing scene for those of us who think of The Hulk as the manifestation of anger. I understand everything you're typing, I just don't think the scene belongs in this kinda movie.

His growing in size and his super speed totally took me out of the movie. So much so that every time they used them I would not be able to shake it for 3 or 4 minutes. I think I really could've loved the film if it wasn't for this.

Ya see? That's what I LOVE about Lee's, though! What better way to express that this "man" is getting stronger with his rising anger than to show him actualy grow larger? I'd also imagine that somebody that was as big and as strong as The Hulk could run pretty fast. In fact, according to Marvel Universe series II, he can reach speeds up to 29 mph (granted, he was probably running faster than that, but I don't think either of us could run 29 mph either. At least I know I can't ). He wasn't running as fast as The Flash, so it didn't bother me. Besides, he only ran twice in the movie: the first time was when he first busted out of the underground lab and the second time was when he ran from the helicopters (and they were in short bursts. I don't think he could hold that speed for very long, which is why he leaps). He jumped around for the rest of the movie. (By the way, I did notice the '08 Hulk seemingly land after a big leap. He was just never actually shown leaping. So, I guess you were right about the way he traveled. I just think that it's a total copout and an insult to the character not to show it, though.)

Lol, I remember thinking What was he watching when you said Norton was tough looking. I still think that he looks more scrawny than Bana. It's to bad there's no side by side image to compare the two.

Now that you have "Hulk" you can! Go to the scene after The Hulk has destroyed the street in San Fransico (MAN, THAT WAS BAD@SS! And it wasn't even something he meant to do! He just slammed the ground outta pure anger and flipped several cars in the process! ) and he changes back into Banner. Take note of the way Bana is shaped as he falls to the ground in front of Betty. Now, look at Norton when he's doing his breathing exercises with the monk-type dude. He's a bit more defined than Bana, in my opinion. But at least he ain't ripped!

Moments when you see Norton in Hulks face. Check him out when Betty walks up to him on the college campus. Again when they are in the cave. Lastly when he's just beaten the Abomination. During the moments of calm. All I see is Norton during those scenes. The Hulk looks so much better in the new movie. His muscles actually flex! You can see his veins pump with the beat of his heart! (AMAZING) He doesn't look like the Shrek (re 2003). He actually has a neck and can turn his head without pivoting his whole body.

I do think Lee's Hulk looks better and no, I don't think Rythem & Hues did an amazing job. Look at yourself in the mirror. Is your face as detailed as '08's Hulk? No. It isn't. They exaggerated the detail in the new one because they were trying to make it look more real than Lee's. (Besides, you're using the "wrong" angry face. He looks especially pissed after Talbot triggered his change the first time and there's another great shot when he's fighting the helicopters and he glares at General Ross. That one was during the "Hulk dogs" fight and his great angry face there was up in the trees when he roared at the dogs.) Because of this, they piled on waaaaaay too much for my taste. '03 looks more human than '08 and even Leterrier said that his Hulk wouldn't look anything like Norton when they were done with him (this is actually in the extras). They took Norton's face and stretched it in different spots, so in the end, Norton's face is lost in the effects. Bana's face is there all of the time! Just watch, you'll see what I mean. The color of The Hulk in '08 was a homage to the color from the comics. I thought he looked real, but like he didn't belong (which is kinda poetic, if you think about it ). And 03's Hulk's muscles flexed and moved just like real muscles. He didn't need veins and lumpy muscles to sell his strength. Once again, you'll see.

They made Lee's Hulk look like a bodybuilder, the way I think The Hulk should look. Leterrier's Hulk took a linebacker approach to the character, which was just too damn skinny for me. A HULKING character should be w i d e , as well as tall. The way they made him all lumpy and veiny, I just didn't like it.

I'll critique The Hulk (2003) after I see it later this week or early the next. It's been too long since I've seen it to delve into it's problems.

Looking forward to it! I could discuss "Hulk" forever!

Meanwhile here's my Christmas gift to you :

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT! PURE, UNADULTURATED RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya see, in Lee's movie, The Hulk took a blast from a tank, actually hurting him(!) and the look on his face when he was getting back up from that was pain... then RAGE! He got up, picked up the top of the other tank and beat the living sh*t outta that bastard! That's the way he shoulda behaved with The Abomination. No stumbling. No "Oh, c'mon!" looks. In fact, when he sees The Abomination hop on top of the chopper, it shoulda PISSED him off that this dude was still up, not mildly annoyed him.

My problem with The Hulk choking out The Abomination is that you don't wanna choke out something that's pissing you off, you wanna beat it to death! (Just look at the comics page you "gave" me. That's a FIST that The Hulk is swingin' around and Onslaught was a much stronger foe than The Abomination!) I could see that The Hulk was using his anger while tightening the chain, but he still didn't seem that angry to me. Sure. Lee's version had him scream in rage to defeat his father, but that really was an emotional climax for the film. It fit just perfectly with the rest of the movie and I love it! The Abomination shoulda been beat down, not choked out. How is "choking" a sign of strength? I could choke out somebody!

I'm not trying to get you to hate a movie you apparently love, jasonbird, I'm just trying to get you to understand why I can't back this movie as being a "good Hulk movie". Every transformation in Lee's movie was due to some form of anger or frustration and it made The Hulk a much better character than Leterrier's, in my opinion. He got it right when Hulk screamed at the thunderstorm, but he was never really that angry again. (He actually became more angry at a thunderstorm than he did at The Abomination?! ) I just love an angry Hulk and Lee's was angrier with every change. Period.

[Monkey_Boy]

Originally Posted by jasonbird

He was already in the room he helped the intern get un-stuck and when he realized that they couldn't get out he tried to shield the gamma rays. The problem is the accident should have killed the intern who was still in the room. By him not dieing of Gamma Poisoning, it totally minimized the danger. He didn't need to be saved because the Rays weren't dangerous to him. I guess because he didn't inhale the Nanobites?!

Dude. As we've already discussed, it was the ACT ITSELF that made it heroic. (And you agreed, if you remember. ) If it was me, I probably woulda went back in the "safe room" and shut the door as I called to my co-woker, "Get the hell out of there! You're about to die like a mug, man!" Kinda like how Betty did in the scene. The fact that Bruce shut the door with himself in the room, well it made him put his life on the back burner to save someone else: the definition of a hero. This was a homage to his comic origin in which he runs out onto a bomb testing field to save some idiot who wandered in the wrong area. Sure. In the comic there was a fellow scientist who activated the bomb because he was jealous of Bruce, but the fact that Bruce went out there himself makes him a hero in my book. (I woulda sent somebody else or hollared from afar because I ain't no hero.) In "The Incredible Hulk", they showed his origin during the opening credits and he obviously infected himself in a search "to better the human condition" or something like that. It's implied that the General then wanted Banner for the "Super Soldier" serum he apparently accidently created. I just like the "Hero Version" better.

In the comics he's gone both ways.

Only after Banner's mind is melded with The Hulk's. Before that, he couldn't even stand hearing the name "Banner".

The Hulk often would pick up whatever was close to him and use it against his opponent. Specially when his opponent is stronger than him. This scene was taken from the video game that was released when Ang Lee's film was released.

Yes. But just look at the way the police car seems to crumple like paper as The Hulk smashes the crap outta The Abomination! He woulda obviously been doing more damage with his bare hands. I mean, after he's through using the car, he only hits him ONCE with his fist then he hesitates so The Abom can kick his @ss through a building!

Already addressed this. And the part when he stumbled was to let people know two things. One, he has never been hit by something stronger than him and two he can be hurt. This did happen in the comics and it was not for comic relief.

I addressed this in my last post, but as I typed, showing pain is fine (like after that tank shot him in '03), stumbling around like he's had a few too many drinks isn't. Not for me anyway. He may have done this in the comics, but they weren't in any I've read and I've read plenty of stories where he fought someone stronger than he was.

I'm sorry but anyone that wasn't totally stoked by the finale Hulk vs. Abomination beginning to end just isn't a real Hulk fan in my view. I can't see any way around it.

I wanted to see The Hulk pound the ever living sh*t out of The Abomination with his bare hands. I was disappointed in Lee's ending because I didn't get this either, but he made up for it by having The Hulk unleash his fury into his father. In the new one, he just pulls on a chain as he looks angry, not enough of an impact. I also think this fight is anti-climatic in the way Blonsky only wants to fight. He has no sinister plan beyond "beating The Hulk". He was just a big bully! He shoulda been given a bit more motivation on what he wanted to gain other than "more strength in order to fight The Hulk". They didn't give us any emotion from Blonsky other than "I wanna kick The Hulk's @ss!" He didn't even trip when the procedure made him ugly as all get out! That's what I always attributed his anger with The Hulk, The Hulk isn't ugly and can revert back to human form. The Abomination is the direct opposite of this and, therefore, MUST destroy The Hulk because of his rage at what has happened to him. He basically blames The Hulk for his "condition" in the comics. In the movie, he only wants to become stronger. That's it. In Lee's, Bruce's father was searching for a way to "better the human condition" and when he found that it was his son who had gained that power, he wanted it for himself. His goal wasn't just to "beat The Hulk", but to take his power as well.

[Mobe1969]

If you watch the making docos on the Ang Lee Hulk you will see that the Hulk size increase was deliberate and part of the story.

And regarding the new Hulk, it doesn't cut it on the sex business, the above excuse that he was unsure what was causing it and didn't want to hurt her. It was obvious throughout the story he knew what exactly what triggered it and was trying to control it (with those stupid gut breathing exercises), and monitor it. And for pity's sake, he didn't hurt her several times when he was in Hulk form. I wish they had just left that scene out altogether. It made him seem such a weiner.

I like both films a lot, but I still find it odd that the Ang Lee one wasn't as well received.

[GreenScar]

I love the discussion. It's funny, seems like everything you I don't like about 2003 you do like and vice versa for 2008. It would be fun to do an audio chat during both movies. Lol!

I'm wondering why you didn't comment on Marvel Studios President's comments on how the 2003 Hulk's look didn't work. Can't get too more official that that. My point in putting the article there was to show that Marvel itself was not happy with the 'look'. I think it's great that you liked it, it was too cartoony for me. I was a big into body building when I was younger (mostly thanks to Hulk) and the truth is their faces, skin and veins DO look like that. It's called 0% body-fat. I guess it's tough in that they are bringing a piece of art that has been interpreted in so many different ways to the screen. for example:

You're look (2003) drawn by McFarline albeit gray at the time (more square/compact):



Vs. the linebacker (more human) proportioned 2008 Hulk (Look! Hulk Dogs! ):



And I've scoured the net looking for anything on the Hulk's speed and found nothing (besides fans discussing the movies. The same goes for his growing. It just didn't happen. for you to be so upset about some of the aspects of TIH yet give Lee a pass on these is inconsistent. The Hulk definitely has Super quick reflexes (that I have seen) but I can't give a pass to Super Speed. It can't even be explained away (like Arrow did earlier in the thread on his transformations). Same goes for the growth. For me it's like Superman 2 when Supes throws the cellophane 'S', or when he teleports or creates multiple Supermen. (?!?) It's just adding powers that he didn't need. Why run from the helicopters? The Hulk doesn't run from anything (even when he's fighting). He should have smashed a rock out of the mountain and thrown it at the copter, or better yet, Thunder clapped!


We should start some threads about other comic book adaptations. This is fun.

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

size increase was deliberate and part of the story.

My problem with it is The Hulk just doesn't grow once he's the Hulk (just in the transformation from Bruce to Hulk)

[Monkey_Boy]

Originally Posted by jasonbird

I love the discussion. It's funny, seems like everything you I don't like about 2003 you do like and vice versa for 2008. It would be fun to do an audio chat during both movies. Lol!

We'd be like Siskel & Ebert, "I loved it!" "Oh, it stinks! What are you talking about?" "What are YOU talkin' about?!"

I'm wondering why you didn't comment on Marvel Studios President's comments on how the 2003 Hulk's look didn't work. Can't get too more official that that. My point in putting the article there was to show that Marvel itself was not happy with the 'look'. I think it's great that you liked it, it was too cartoony for me. I was a big into body building when I was younger (mostly thanks to Hulk) and the truth is their faces, skin and veins DO look like that. It's called 0% body-fat. I guess it's tough in that they are bringing a piece of art that has been interpreted in so many different ways to the screen.

The second picture is still wider than The Hulk was in "TIH", though! (Where are you getting these pics anyway? They're awesome! ) For bodybuilders to look that veiny, they'd have to be flexing really hard. I remember reading an interview with a bodybuilder that said that "if you aren't sore after a competition, you weren't flexing hard enough." I guess this could work for your theory on The Hulk in a constant state of tense flexing, but it just doesn't look correct to me. I have a few musclebound friends (not HUGE guys, but still) and they aren't in a constant state of "veininess" (is that a word? ).

As far as the president's comment, I didn't take it too seriously because every interview I saw praised "Hulk" until after it came out. Most folks backpeddal like a mug so they don't end up looking stupid. I mean, Marvel itself approved of "Daredevil", "Elektra" and "Fantastic 4", and we all know how much those stunk up the place! Even the "X-Men" movies had major problems with its characters that Marvel approved of.

And I've scoured the net looking for anything on the Hulk's speed and found nothing (besides fans discussing the movies. The same goes for his growing. It just didn't happen. for you to be so upset about some of the aspects of TIH yet give Lee a pass on these is inconsistent. The Hulk definitely has Super quick reflexes (that I have seen) but I can't give a pass to Super Speed. It can't even be explained away (like Arrow did earlier in the thread on his transformations). Same goes for the growth. For me it's like Superman 2 when Supes throws the cellophane 'S', or when he teleports or creates multiple Supermen. (?!?) It's just adding powers that he didn't need. Why run from the helicopters? The Hulk doesn't run from anything (even when he's fighting). He should have smashed a rock out of the mountain and thrown it at the copter, or better yet, Thunder clapped!

Oh, c'mon! "Hulk" did NOT throw the 'S'! He only started to run from the helicopters when they started shooting missles at 'im (and we saw that they could hurt him. Remember the one that hit his childhood home? It had actually sliced his shoulder open!)... and he wasn't outrunning the missles, either. He was batting them away and he caught one as it went passed him. Now, if he was outrunning missles and dodging bullets "matrix-style", then that woulda been superspeed. (I mean, polar bears have been clocked at 40 mph. The Hulk is bigger and stronger than a polar bear, wouldn't you agree?) Once he made it to the position he wanted, he turned and fought. He was doing exactly what you said YOU liked about The Hulk: trying to get them to leave him alone! He was actually being careful not to hurt any of the soldiers (which pissed off a number of "fans" ), unlike the new Hulk, who didn't seem to care what happened to anybody but Betty (which may have been in line with the comics, but it made him less of a "good guy" in my mind).

As far as his growing, once again, I always pictured him doing this when he became angry. Maybe it was the way the artists drew him. Kinda like in that page where he's fighting Onslaught, notice how his fist seems to grow as he swings it up? Not that I'm saying he's definetly growing, but the artist made his fist bigger to emphasize that The Hulk was more angry and stronger than before! Ang Lee did the same thing, he made sure we KNEW he was getting stronger. I like that!

Maybe you're right that Lee just made up some abilities, however, none of these "new abilities" are anything like the ones given to Supes in the Superman movies (part 2 wasn't the first time they did that. Remember his "turning back time" in the first? ). They are still in the realm of "reality" (if you'll excuse me for using that word). I just think it's funny that he created a Hulk movie that portrayed The Hulk as I've always seen him, yet he seems to have never really existed. That's probably the coolest thing that's ever happened to me! I mean, honestly, what are the odds that I'd get a Hulk flick that has him as the growing bad@ss I've always thought of him as?

We should start some threads about other comic book adaptations.

Yes. I agree. We should... but where do we go from here? There are so many to choose from.

This is fun.

Isn't it? I find it amazing how we can disagree with each other, but neither of us is getting all in a huff about it. Do you know how rare that is on the internet?!

And where did you get that Hulk smilie?! Is it in the extended smilie menu? Because I've never noticed it before and that's the coolest thing I've ever seen!

[GreenScar]

It's been so long since I'd seen Lee's Hulk, I started it last night but didn't have the time to finish. The Audio and Picture is stellar (almost as good as the 08 version )! I just got to the part when the dogs show up at the lake. While I do have my problems with it, I definitely see Lee creating the inner struggle which I do like very much. I still have a difficult time with Bana in the roll of Banner. I'm willing to entertain that it's from his other rolls (possibly) that throw me off (Troy, Munich) where he's very muscular and very non Bannerish. (Might be the same reasons you feel Norton couldn't be a good Banner (Fight Club). It was your earlier comment that got me thinking.

I didn't like the way Ross was used in the flashbacks. He was somewhat a roadblock to Bruce's Fathers experiments which for me is out of character. I thought his character was more accurate in the newer movie. I thought both actors (Elliot and Hurt) did a great job as Old Thunderbolt but Hurt had more the body (look of Ross) from the comics while I think Elliot's voice and inflections were spot on.

Lee seems to cram a lot of story into a short period and the pacing suffers a little, but he pulls off what he's trying to accomplish overall (so far. still have to finish it).

As to his Origin, It would have played much better if Bruce would've freed Thompson (I think that was his name) and when Betty shouted that she couldn't stop it, if he would've grabbed him and thrown him through the door just as the Gamma Blast goes off hitting Bruce (much the same imagery as from the comics). As it was, the door had already shut behind him when the accident started. I would like to think that any of us would have tried to help a coworker in that situation. For me it just didn't play out that heroic (but then again IMO the comic book origin wasn't too heroic either). Of interesting note, when watching the deleted scenes from TIH, Ross and Blonsky discuss what Bruce was working on and it was the exact same thing they were working on in Lee's movie.

I still would rather the Hulk use his quick reflexes and strength vs the helicopters. I'm not quite there yet in the movie but it seemed to me he was moving much faster than 30mph. It seemed that he was moving at about 60-70% of the missile's speed. Probably in excess of 100mph. He had to be traveling at least that to keep the inertia around the rock bowl he was running around. I need to see it still. Running fast like that takes a leanness. Hulk's giant thighs would inhibit his running fast. Legs need to be close together to run, the Hulk can't even stand with his legs together (they're much too big). I was even taken aback a bit by his running in TIH even though he was probably running about 25/30mph (keeping up with the Hummer). The Hulk jumps. That's how he travels. He should have just leapt over to where the soldiers were shooting at him and ahead of Blonsky when he was running away. I can see that you've accepted these changes (for you they are only slight) to the Hulk. It's becuase you really enjoyed the movie so your willing to make concessions with Lee. The changes are okay becuase Lee hit the nail on the head overall for you. whereas TIH wasn't what you were expecting so the slight variations stood out like a sore thumb for you. I think it was just the opposite for me.

I'll post again when I have a chance to finish the movie. Again the PQ/AQ are amazing from a technical standpoint. I'll post a cool site that has pics and info later (I'm chilling at my daughters house today so I don't have my links handy). The Hulk smiley was something someone else posted on this site (a cut and paste from anther site) that I picked up on and use every once and awhile. If you quote my post you'll be able to see the source.

[DeadDog]

I just have to say, Monkey_Boy where were you a couple month's ago?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=68461

Granted, I didn't get into quite as detailed of a discussion as you and Jasonbird (I don't have that much time ), but I have many of the same feelings about Lee's Hulk as you do.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoy reading both arguments. Although I 100% agree with everything Monkey_Boy is saying, not so much with Jasonbird . I will always love Lee's Hulk, I find it to be a much superior film.

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by DeadDog

I just have to say, Monkey_Boy where were you a couple month's ago?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=68461

Granted, I didn't get into quite as detailed of a discussion as you and Jasonbird (I don't have that much time ), but I have many of the same feelings about Lee's Hulk as you do.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoy reading both arguments. Although I 100% agree with everything Monkey_Boy is saying, not so much with Jasonbird . I will always love Lee's Hulk, I find it to be a much superior film.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. That's how I see you guys.

I'm just kidding of course. It's all in good fun and when it comes right down to it a movies enjoyment is entirely a matter of opinion and there really is no right or wrong. It's just that the 2008 movie was more faithful in a literal sense to the comic book.

[arrow61095]

Originally Posted by Monkey_Boy

...
My problem with The Hulk choking out The Abomination is that you don't wanna choke out something that's pissing you off, you wanna beat it to death! (Just look at the comics page you "gave" me. That's a FIST that The Hulk is swingin' around and Onslaught was a much stronger foe than The Abomination!) I could see that The Hulk was using his anger while tightening the chain, but he still didn't seem that angry to me. Sure. Lee's version had him scream in rage to defeat his father, but that really was an emotional climax for the film. It fit just perfectly with the rest of the movie and I love it! The Abomination shoulda been beat down, not choked out. How is "choking" a sign of strength? I could choke out somebody!
...

While Onslaught was a much stronger foe than The Abomination, in the early comics, Hulks strength is not what it is displayed as today. According to the origin of the Abomination -----Blonsky was transformed into a massive green-skinned monster with physical strength exceeding that of the Hulk; in his first appearance, he was more than twice as powerful as the Hulk. Although he retained his mental faculties, Blonsky soon discovered his inability to return to human form. ------In these early battles, Hulk often used crafty fighting or Banner's intelligence to beat the Abomination, since he was not as strong.

Originally Posted by Monkey_Boy

...
I also think this fight is anti-climatic in the way Blonsky only wants to fight. He has no sinister plan beyond "beating The Hulk". He was just a big bully! He shoulda been given a bit more motivation on what he wanted to gain other than "more strength in order to fight The Hulk". They didn't give us any emotion from Blonsky other than "I wanna kick The Hulk's @ss!" He didn't even trip when the procedure made him ugly as all get out! That's what I always attributed his anger with The Hulk, The Hulk isn't ugly and can revert back to human form. The Abomination is the direct opposite of this and, therefore, MUST destroy The Hulk because of his rage at what has happened to him. He basically blames The Hulk for his "condition" in the comics. In the movie, he only wants to become stronger. That's it.
...

This is fitting with Hulks early fights with the Abomination and Blonsky's depiction in the movie. Blonsky did not "blame" the Hulk for his condition or not being able to turn back until later in the comics, when he began to miss his ex-wife and got angry because the Hulk dumped him in some toxic waste after one particular fight.
As he is depicted in the movie (and early on in the comics), Blonsky wants to prove that he is the best/most powerful fighter in the world. He believes that by defeating the Hulk (the most powerful opponent that he can find), He will prove that he is the best. Like gladiators in an arena, he lives for the challenge of going up against the most powerful opponents.
Only later on did he realize the implications of him not being able to turn back into a human.

[Porkchop Express]

I'll pick up the movie(when it's dirt cheap) for the Hulk scenes alone. The movie was rather boring, but Lee's Hulk was done far better then the 2008 Hulk.

[Monkey_Boy]

Originally Posted by jasonbird

As to his Origin, It would have played much better if Bruce would've freed Thompson (I think that was his name) and when Betty shouted that she couldn't stop it, if he would've grabbed him and thrown him through the door just as the Gamma Blast goes off hitting Bruce (much the same imagery as from the comics). As it was, the door had already shut behind him when the accident started.

Still, of all of the choices he could've made, he chose to TRY to protect the man. Bruce not only freed him, but as he sees this man curl into the fetal position against the wall, without a thought, he actually threw himself over the machine like a soldier! It's as we already discussed, the ACT ITSELF is heroic. Even if his coworker happened to die anyway, the fact that Bruce tried to do what he could still makes him a hero. Just because he survived when he should've died anyway still doesn't deminish Bruce's heroism because he REALLY thought the machine was deadly. Ya see what I'm typin'?

I would like to think that any of us would have tried to help a coworker in that situation.

I dunno. He did call Bruce a dork and made fun of him because he wears a safety helmut even when not riding his bike. I'da been on the other side of the glass sayin', "Who's the dork now? Bet you wish you had a safety helmut!" How awkward would our work relationship had been after he lived anyway?

I can see that you've accepted these changes (for you they are only slight) to the Hulk. It's becuase you really enjoyed the movie so your willing to make concessions with Lee. The changes are okay becuase Lee hit the nail on the head overall for you. whereas TIH wasn't what you were expecting so the slight variations stood out like a sore thumb for you. I think it was just the opposite for me.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, boyo!

It's all in good fun and when it comes right down to it a movies enjoyment is entirely a matter of opinion and there really is no right or wrong. It's just that the 2008 movie was more faithful in a literal sense to the comic book.

Completely agree with the first sentence and I believe the '03 movie was more faithful in a psychological sense to the comic book.

Originally posted by arrow61095:
This is fitting with Hulks early fights with the Abomination and Blonsky's depiction in the movie. Blonsky did not "blame" the Hulk for his condition or not being able to turn back until later in the comics, when he began to miss his ex-wife and got angry because the Hulk dumped him in some toxic waste after one particular fight.
As he is depicted in the movie (and early on in the comics), Blonsky wants to prove that he is the best/most powerful fighter in the world. He believes that by defeating the Hulk (the most powerful opponent that he can find), He will prove that he is the best. Like gladiators in an arena, he lives for the challenge of going up against the most powerful opponents.
Only later on did he realize the implications of him not being able to turn back into a human.

And you've nailed why I don't like this one: they took out ALL aspects of anything psychological with the characters! I understand where you're coming from, but I honestly doubt that they'll EVER touch up on Blonsky's mental state later on down the line. And I REALLY doubt they kept this aspect of The Abom out because it didn't happen that way in the comics. They could've sped up his mental state just a bit and had him freak at seeing himself in a window or mirror and have him trip on Sterns on if he'll ever be able to change back. That's the moment when he could've had a stronger reason for destroying The Hulk other than "just because I wanna". Like Sabretooth, I believe this is the last time we ever hear from The Abomination, they got what they wanted out of the character.

Why did EVERYTHING have to be physical when The Hulk is as much a psychological character as he is a physical one?! He's one comic book character that's actually deeper than what he appears on the surface. Why make him and his enemies so one dimensional?

I'd also like to send a TYPE OUT to my boy, DeadDog! I did indeed feel the same way you did in your thread. Maybe even more! I actually had the same discussion in another forum when the movie first came out! (Of course, in the other forum I was basically the only person that wanted to type about these kinda movies... BUT STILL!) Keep up the good fight!

[DeadDog]

Originally Posted by Monkey_Boy

Why did EVERYTHING have to be physical when The Hulk is as much a psychological character as he is a physical one?! He's one comic book character that's actually deeper than what he appears on the surface. Why make him and his enemies so one dimensional?

If I could narrow down my dislike for the 08 Hulk to one issue this would be it. I just never developed any care for the characters. I mean, you have Edward Norton, Tim Roth, and William Hurt, some extremely talented actors. How is it that each actor's character was nothing more than what you saw on the surface?

With this kind of cast I hoped for an extremely moving emotional side to the story. Action scenes are fun and all, but without the emotional connection I just don't care that much.

With this post I became a Senior Member

[GreenScar]

Just finished Ang Lee's Hulk on blu. The Audio quality was great.

Here are some inconsistencies of Lee's version vs the Comic (some I've already mentioned before but have more time now to explain)
General Ross is not the Gen Ross from the comics. Pretty much the only thing that's the same is the name, rank and mustache. His motivations are completely different as well as his background (from what they show).
Bruce's father is a departure from the comics. While Brian Banner did abuse Bruce and his mother Rebbecca, he actually never experimented on himself (or try to find a cure for Bruce) as the movie states. He was involved in an accident (radiation experiment) but was behind a shield and was deemed by doctors to not have been effected by radiation, he still felt he was, and later thought he passed on some of that to Bruce (due to the unique intelligence Bruce was showing). Brian never attempted to murder Bruce (like in the movie), he killed Rebbecca while trying to prevent her from leaving him (throwing her to the ground, killing her). After Brian was released from the mental hospital 15 years later, Bruce tried to have a relationship with him. They even lived together for a time. Brain started acting more and more unstable and Bruce suggested he return to the hospital to be checked. Brian yelled back that it was being close physically to Bruce that was causing him to lose his mind. Bruce walked away and was later at his mothers grave site when his father showed up ranting that Bruce was evil. The argument escalated to a physical altercation and Brian fell breaking his neck on Rebbecca's grave stone. In the movie Brian ends up as the main villain. His main objective? Break the bounds God has set forth for man. He wants more power. It's the same thing Blonsky wants in TIH (there you have a problem with that motivation). Having Brian Banner experiment on himself, then attempt murder on his son (murdering his wife instead) was a big change from the comics and not intellectually faithful at all.
Bruce Banner likes becoming the Hulk. What?! No way! Banner has a discussion with Betty in the lake house how he enjoys succumbing to the Hulk when he's Angry. Nothing could be further from the truth (as far as the comics go). He can also control the changes. This is somewhat subtle in the movie, but it's there. Part of the tragedy that is Bruce Banner is that he couldn't control the metamorphosis. But he succumbs to it in the second change (later telling Betty he enjoys it) and then when Talbot beats him up trying to get a transformation, Bruce tells him he'll never change for him (and doesn't). Later he changes (triggered subconsciously from a nightmare). Also backing up this fact is the quickness in which he changes back to Bruce after fighting the Dogs. Why didn't he change back when Betty came out of the Lake house before the dogs showed up and yet, he was still visibly shaken immediately after the fight when he changes back. And finally he changes to fight his father who becomes something similar to a classic Hulk foe: Zzzax. Now was Anger involved? Yes, but he was still under control (as stated twice by Banner himself). In the comics, the Banner would avoid any instance possible to avoid a transformation because it was something that was beyond his control and for fear of what the Hulk might do. I'm not saying in the movie that he had perfect control, but there was definitely creative license taken by Lee to depart from the psychological relationship between Banner and Hulk. TIH was more faithful to the comic in that Banner's number one priority was to find a cure. He wanted to rid himself of the Hulk.
The Hulk was a part of Banner before the accident that created him. There may be some parts of the comic that support this that have come out later on in the life of the character, but the classic Hulk that I think both movies were trying to portray didn't support this. This aspect of the movie had me confused as to why it was needed (unless it was to support his fathers claim of "I want to see my real son" at the end of the movie). I'll need some help with this part as to how it's faithful to the comic.
Brian Banner becomes The Absorbing Man. I don't think this needs any explanation as the Absorbing Man in the comics is Carl Creel.

Here are some problems I had with it:
The Nanomeds.
Hulks voice. I tried to look through the credits and the extras but I just couldn't find the source of Hulks voice. Even his grunts and growls were wimpy. In TIH, his voice was done by Lou Ferrigno (it was perfect) and the grunts and growls was done by the same team that did the sounds for King Kong. Very well done
The physical fight between Bruce and Brian Banner. First he turns into a Zzzax-type villain by absorbing electricity and grabs The Hulk. As they fly through the sky, there are pictures on the clouds of The Hulk getting the snot beat out of him (all still pictures mind you), then they crash to the ground next to the lake. This is part is actually cool. Bruce absorbs Stone and in almost a homage to the old Hulk vs Thing fights. Hulk then throws him into the lake where he becomes Water (no problem for Hulk because he can breath under water). Then when he starts to absorb Hulk. He bubbles up as the Hulk tells him to take all of his strength (Brian Banner starts to tell him to take it back it's too much) when a nuclear (or gamma) bomb hits them ending the battle. Very Lackluster visually and IMO anti-climactic. The story was indeed (as you have said before) all about rage. The problem is The Hulk is more than just rage. Sure, he's fueled by rage, but it's more complex than that. Both Banner and Hulk are on the never ending quest for peace. To be left alone. And to be rid of each other. That's what TIH was all about. Ang Lee's Hulk strayed far from the Comics in every way.

The Hulk's size fluctuations is just sloppy film making. Lee decides to make the Hulk grow (up to 20 feet ) in correspondence with his anger. The problem is he shifts in size throughout the movie in an inconsistent manner. The first time we see him grow is when he is shot at outside his home. He then travels to Betty's lake house, and is calm but yet he's still the size of Might Joe Young. Then when battling the helicopters he's regular size again (must not be too mad). Later while he's in the base, Talbot really ticks him off and he grows huge again. By the time he escapes the base and battles the tanks he's smaller once again (maybe somewhere in between ) We don't see him grow again the rest of the movie. Lee actually states in the behind the scenes features that it's something he adds to show the madder the Hulk get's the stronger he gets, but it should have been enough when Betty actually says "The more you make him Angry, the Stronger he gets." I'm not sure why Mr Lee felt insecure about this aspect of the Hulk (or his inability to show it on screen). Whatever the reason he went this direction, it just doesn't work and is a departure from the Hulk.

You had a problem with Hulk responding when Betty calls him Bruce in TIH, but the same thing happens in the first movie at the lake before the Hulk Dogs show up.

His look for the Hulk is also a problem for me. Don't get me wrong, I love how muscular he his, he's just off proportionally. Like Kevin Feige stated, he's shaped a bit like a toddler. His Hands and arms are almost the length of a gorilla. When his hands are at his side, they hang down to his knees. His legs are bowed tremendously which would actually prevent him from reaching his 100mph dash. And his green is a bit too bright.

Why did EVERYTHING have to be physical when The Hulk is as much a psychological character as he is a physical one?! He's one comic book character that's actually deeper than what he appears on the surface. Why make him and his enemies so one dimensional?

Did you guys not see how torn up Bruce was about his condition? About the worry he had with his blood? Having to trust someone he didn't know because his desire for a cure? How alone he must have felt in a new country with no money and no clothes. The inner struggle he was going through wanting to contact Betty but knowing it was best for her not to. The look on Norton's face when Betty bursts out of the Pizza place looking for him was painful (in a good way). Ross' conversations with Blonsky and Betty. He was clearly a man bent on finding the ultimate weapon for the army everyone else (including his daughter) be damned. See Arows post for Blonsky's motivations. The motivations in TIH were THE SAME as they were in the comic book (it's that simple). I'm just not sure what movie you guys saw (or state of mind you were in when you saw it).

You guys need to use the same criticisms you do for both movies. You support the Ang Lee version and have problems with some of the same things that happen in the Marvel Studios version (but are okay in Lee's).

BTW, here's a cool site for you to check out: incrediblehulkonline.com


The theater I was in literally shook when he screamed!

[Monkey_Boy]

Originally Posted by jasonbird

Having Brian Banner experiment on himself, then attempt murder on his son (murdering his wife instead) was a big change from the comics and not intellectually faithful at all.

I've already admitted that Lee changed the conflict between Bruce and his father and I've never said that Lee's General Ross was dead on to the comics. So you really didn't have to explain it that much, but it's cool (or is it "geeky"? ) that you did.

Bruce Banner likes becoming the Hulk.

Yeah. You're right. I can't argue that point either. However, I will type that I find it believeable (if not apart of the comics continuity) that Bruce would like being able to release his anger, as any of us probably would. I would picture it being something that would bother or scare you if you happened to do something terrible with that power. This, in fact, coulda been an attempt to show that The Hulk's future is to become the evil Maestro.

This woulda been a very cool concept to build on in the sequels (and the fact that Banner had a beard at the end seemed to say this was the direction they might've wanted to go in. Man, I so wish they coulda went that way!).

Now, Leterrier's Hulk hurt Betty during his first transformation, so this would explain his fear of The Hulk. However, we continue to see that The Hulk is absoulutely NO DANGER to Betty whatsoever. Maybe they shoulda shown that it was difficult for Banner to control himself as The Hulk if they really wanted to sell the "danger". Especially since it was definetly clear that he didn't mean to hurt her during his first change.

Also backing up this fact is the quickness in which he changes back to Bruce after fighting the Dogs. Why didn't he change back when Betty came out of the Lake house before the dogs showed up and yet, he was still visibly shaken immediately after the fight when he changes back.

I had the very same discussion with a buddy of mine when we were watching it the other day. It was actually him that was all, "Why did he just try to choke Betty? Ain't he supposed to be calmed down?" All I could say was, "Yeah. You're right!" He shouldn't have changed back if he hadn't calmed down. I agree with ya 100% on this part.

And finally he changes to fight his father who becomes something similar to a classic Hulk foe: Zzzax.

Just so you know, they did indeed mix several Hulk villains into his father.

Now was Anger involved? Yes, but he was still under control (as stated twice by Banner himself). In the comics, the Banner would avoid any instance possible to avoid a transformation because it was something that was beyond his control and for fear of what the Hulk might do. I'm not saying in the movie that he had perfect control, but there was definitely creative license taken by Lee to depart from the psychological relationship between Banner and Hulk. TIH was more faithful to the comic in that Banner's number one priority was to find a cure. He wanted to rid himself of the Hulk.

I agree with this to an extent, but I still don't think they made it clear that Banner wasn't in control of The Hulk in Leterrier's. I mean, did The Hulk ever really seem out of control? What about when he was alone with Betty, did he ever attempt to hurt her?

The Hulk was a part of Banner before the accident that created him. There may be some parts of the comic that support this that have come out later on in the life of the character, but the classic Hulk that I think both movies were trying to portray didn't support this. This aspect of the movie had me confused as to why it was needed (unless it was to support his fathers claim of "I want to see my real son" at the end of the movie).

They were definetly dealing with the comics that introduced the mental instability caused by his father's actions. And I always took David Banner's line "I want to see my real son" as meaning he takes credit in creating The Hulk since it was he who had experimented on himself. He was having issues with the fact that the power he wanted for himself, went to his son.

Here are some problems I had with it:
The Nanomeds.

It was apart of their scientific explanation. "Your" movie had heartbeats. "Mine" had nanomeds. I like the nanomeds explanation more because it didn't make for such a hair trigger when it came to his transformations.

Hulks voice. I tried to look through the credits and the extras but I just couldn't find the source of Hulks voice. Even his grunts and growls were wimpy. In TIH, his voice was done by Lou Ferrigno (it was perfect) and the grunts and growls was done by the same team that did the sounds for King Kong. Very well done

Ooh! We differ here! I didn't like the "new" Hulk's voice. I actually got excited in the theater when I heard him say "Leave me alone", but as the movie went along, I just didn't get into it. I loved the sound of The Hulk's voice when he says "Puny human" in Lee's. Very deep. Very cool. I didn't think the new one used a human "roar"! No wonder I didn't like it! I kept saying, "That sounds like a lion, not a man". (Ya know, they used a lion's roar to develop King Kong's "voice". Just a fun fact for ya. )

The physical fight between Bruce and Brian Banner. First he turns into a Zzzax-type villain by absorbing electricity and grabs The Hulk. As they fly through the sky, there are pictures on the clouds of The Hulk getting the snot beat out of him (all still pictures mind you), then they crash to the ground next to the lake. This is part is actually cool. Bruce absorbs Stone and in almost a homage to the old Hulk vs Thing fights. Hulk then throws him into the lake where he becomes Water (no problem for Hulk because he can breath under water). Then when he starts to absorb Hulk. He bubbles up as the Hulk tells him to take all of his strength (Brian Banner starts to tell him to take it back it's too much) when a nuclear (or gamma) bomb hits them ending the battle. Very Lackluster visually and IMO anti-climactic.

I've always taken the "still pictures" in the clouds as quick flashes of the fight as they moved through the sky. Kinda like how after a really big lightning crack it seems to burn its image into the sky for a few seconds before fading away. The climax was emotional for me. Bruce finally let go of all of the rage and anger he'd held onto for all of those years and just unleashed it! I'm sorry, but that was a helluva climax to me. Maybe it's because I can remember the story where The Leader finally stole The Hulk's power and he just couldn't control it and nearly killed himself as he destroyed everything around him in a mindless rage. Such rage! Such power! That was freakin' awesome! Not to mention that perfectly precious moment when Bruce remembers a father who had once loved him.

The story was indeed (as you have said before) all about rage. The problem is The Hulk is more than just rage. Sure, he's fueled by rage, but it's more complex than that. Both Banner and Hulk are on the never ending quest for peace. To be left alone. And to be rid of each other. That's what TIH was all about. Ang Lee's Hulk strayed far from the Comics in every way.

Actually, The Hulk did wanna be left alone. It was the military that kept finding him! And I wouldn't type "in every way". He definetly stayed true to the character that I "remembered" reading about.

The Hulk's size fluctuations is just sloppy film making.

Ya see, I can't argue with this because I've never stood next to a tank, or a fighter jet, or on The Golden Gate Bridge, or even next to a trolley. Ebert had the same problem with "Godzilla" '98 and I can honestly say I still can't tell when his size is inconsistant. This just isn't something that affects my enjoyment of a movie.

Lee actually states in the behind the scenes features that it's something he adds to show the madder the Hulk get's the stronger he gets, but it should have been enough when Betty actually says "The more you make him Angry, the Stronger he gets." I'm not sure why Mr Lee felt insecure about this aspect of the Hulk (or his inability to show it on screen). Whatever the reason he went this direction, it just doesn't work and is a departure from the Hulk.

It doesn't work for you, but it works wonderfully for me! I have a Marvel theme on my PS3 right now and it shows The Hulk kneeling among several (in fact, probably most of the) characters from the Marvel Universe. This puts his head level with Captain America's shoulder and he's about 4 people wide! So he's been drawn very big and when it comes to The Hulk, you just can't make him too big for my taste! However, "TIH"'s Hulk is just waaaaaaay too small for The Hulk.

You had a problem with Hulk responding when Betty calls him Bruce in TIH, but the same thing happens in the first movie at the lake before the Hulk Dogs show up.

I've always took it as she was saying it more to herself than to him. Notice it wasn't a very loud "Bruce?". She never called him Bruce the rest of the movie while Tyler's Betty used it like he really was Bruce the whole time and it even calmed him down.

His look for the Hulk is also a problem for me. Don't get me wrong, I love how muscular he his, he's just off proportionally. Like Kevin Feige stated, he's shaped a bit like a toddler. His Hands and arms are almost the length of a gorilla. When his hands are at his side, they hang down to his knees. His legs are bowed tremendously which would actually prevent him from reaching his 100mph dash. And his green is a bit too bright.

I dunno, Lee's version is the most common look for The Hulk that I've seen. He's always been huge and bulky with ape-like proportions. I mean, look at your picture of The Grey Hulk. I can see how his speed could bother you if you're the kinda person to take such things into consideration, but I'm not. My eyes see The Hulk running fast and my brain just accepts it because I've never really read that he couldn't reach high speeds. It just seemed plausible that he could do this in short bursts (like a polar bear) because of how big & strong he was in Lee's movie. I rather liked his coloring. Like I said, it made him look like he didn't quite belong in this world, but I didn't think it made him look anything like Shrek (as so many have said) other than the fact that he was a green CG character.

The motivations in TIH were THE SAME as they were in the comic book (it's that simple). I'm just not sure what movie you guys saw (or state of mind you were in when you saw it).

It's just like you typed:

I can see that you've accepted these changes (for you they are only slight) to the Hulk. It's becuase you really enjoyed the movie so your willing to make concessions with Lee. The changes are okay becuase Lee hit the nail on the head overall for you. whereas TIH wasn't what you were expecting so the slight variations stood out like a sore thumb for you. I think it was just the opposite for me.

None of the characters in "TIH" ever clicked with me, they were bland. And everytime I heard or saw something that I didn't like, my dislike for the movie grew more and more. I really wanted to like it, but I just couldn't get into it the way you did. I guess we're 2 different Hulk fans who like him for completely different reasons.

You guys need to use the same criticisms you do for both movies. You support the Ang Lee version and have problems with some of the same things that happen in the Marvel Studios version (but are okay in Lee's).

As you can read, I do. It's just like I typed: Lee got more right than he did wrong... for me. The new Hulk was stripped of his skin and painted green. I just couldn't get into his look. It was very distracting. Probably as distracting as Hulk's size was for you in '03. The way that they decided to emphasize heartbeats over emotion took something away from the character of The Hulk. I've often heard or read "just because it was like that originally doesn't mean it can't be made better in the movie" and I feel this way about the way they handled Blonsky. They shoulda had him change earlier in the movie so that the transformation coulda took a toll on his mind. This woulda made for a much better confrontation between him and The Hulk at the end, in my opinion. The conflict between Bruce and his father in Lee's is what gave their end fight that little something extra. Like I typed before: David wasn't only trying to defeat his son, he was trying to take his power. All The Abom was trying to do was beat The Hulk in a fight that wasn't personal by any means. He was just a jerk. A bully, if you will. It's funny how comic-based movies are always trying to make up relationships between characters to create tension (like how they're making Wolverine and Sabretooth half-brothers in "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" ), but Leterrier decided to replace this dynamic in their relationship for action scene after action scene. Wasted potential for a helluva emotional fight that coulda been.

[GreenScar]

I read an interview at AICN with Roth and Leterrier where they eluded to the fact that the plan was to use Roth again in the sequel (along with Sterns). While I know it's pretty standard procedure to use a 3 picture deal contract both he and Tim Blake Nelson have one. I would love to see them both again. Now that the fan base is energized, we can get on with things.

I agree with this to an extent, but I still don't think they made it clear that Banner wasn't in control of The Hulk in Leterrier's. I mean, did The Hulk ever really seem out of control? What about when he was alone with Betty, did he ever attempt to hurt her?

Just wanted to clarify what that I meant when it comes to controlling the transformation (not control of the Hulk himself). In TIH he had no control over the transformations which is why he was learning some unique anger management techniques from a capoeira master in Brazil. Whereas in Hulk, he seemed to have a modicum (or more) of control over the transformations (as detailed in my last post).

It will be VERY interesting to see how they add the Hulk to the Avengers. Interacting with the other characters (I think this was one of the main reasons Marvel wanted him leaner; so they wouldn't have to have every shot of him a wide angle ) will be very cool.

[Anklefoot]

This conversation is just so nerdy, I just had to chime in. I am new here, but have been lurking for a while.

I am in the camp that thinks the Hulk should be driven largely by anger. Many times over the years, the line "the angrier the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets" would be trotted out. Even when Banner was in control, anger was the key to his strength. Remember in the original Secret Wars, when the heroes were trapped under the mountain, Reed Richards belittled Bruce Banner's intellect, in order to anger him. The thinking was that an angry hulk was stronger, more able to support the mountain on top of them.

Hulks rage is even more pronounced in the Ultimate Universe, where he eats people and Skrulls. The Ultimate Universe comics also depict him as being very large, far larger than the 2008 film Hulk. The Spider Man films borrowed liberally from the Ultimate Universe, and I was hoping the new Hulk would too.

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by Anklefoot

This conversation is just so nerdy, I just had to chime in. I am new here, but have been lurking for a while.

Welcome! It's fun because it's stuff I hadn't really thought about a lot of this stuff in years and lately have been reading up on the character.

I am in the camp that thinks the Hulk should be driven largely by anger. Many times over the years, the line "the angrier the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets" would be trotted out. Even when Banner was in control, anger was the key to his strength. Remember in the original Secret Wars, when the heroes were trapped under the mountain, Reed Richards belittled Bruce Banner's intellect, in order to anger him. The thinking was that an angry hulk was stronger, more able to support the mountain on top of them.

Hulks rage is even more pronounced in the Ultimate Universe, where he eats people and Skrulls. The Ultimate Universe comics also depict him as being very large, far larger than the 2008 film Hulk. The Spider Man films borrowed liberally from the Ultimate Universe, and I was hoping the new Hulk would too.

You are absolutely right (I hope neither of us are coming off as saying the Hulk himself isn't driven by Anger). I think both are while he's the Hulk. Officially the Hulk transforms in times of stress (which obviously includes Anger).
Here's the official guide from 2004. The one noticeable change I know of is that his lungs have adapted to breath under water. It's a great read for Hulk fans: