Akira is 192khz, why not other movies?

[42041]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Assuming you mean the 192khz 24bit TrueHD, it definitely does make a difference. Have you listened to it? If not, you have no leg to stand on. It's truly a marvel.

Sorry, my hearing isn't that good (and it's just about average for a human my age), I'm not going to pretend to hear a difference so I can be part of the golden ears club. I'll take a stellar mix at CD quality over an average one at any sampling rate.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by 42041

Sorry, my hearing isn't that good (and it's just about average for a human my age), I'm not going to pretend to hear a difference so I can be part of the golden ears club. I'll take a stellar mix at CD quality over an average one at any sampling rate.

Honestly, as long as you can HEAR, there's an amazing difference here. No golden ears B.S., nothing like that. I don't buy into "hypersonics" or any of that mess, but it's really impressive. Being a naysayer without even hearing it for yourself is just foolish.

By the way, it's a stellar mix on top of being truly top-of-the-line bitrate.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

Very interesting thread!

I am curious. Does anyone know if the 192KHz/24-bit audio is present on BOTH the Japanese Dolby TrueHD and English Dolby TrueHD tracks?

Japanese only but the English Dolby TrueHD does sound pretty good though

[peteness]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Because anything made after the late 80s was created digitally, and they're stuck at whatever res it was mastered at (48Khz/16-bit typically)

192Khz audio, even with THD takes up a GIGANTIC amount of space. Literally they use the entire audio space on Blu-ray on that disc.

The returns aren't usually worth it, basically a small amount of stuff made in the 80s with analog masters is the only material with enough fidelity to benefit from it. This was really a pet project by Mr. Yamashiro. Hopefully others will be inspired by it for other films, but I doubt you'll see people going over 48/24 very often.

hey Jeff and everyone- my name is pete and i just joined. I was wondering if anyone could help me or point me in the right direction towards a copy of the included Tsutomu Ōhashi essay included the akira blu ray release. Its just that I am writing my thesis on unconscious and subliminal sound perception and have written quite a bit on the hypersonic effect and hfc's etc. and would love to include a section on the modern applications of hfcs in soundtracks- i.e. akira. Also the film is aawesome! so thats a huge bonus when writing a thesis! hope someone can help- cheers and thank you- pete

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by peteness

hey Jeff and everyone- my name is pete and i just joined. I was wondering if anyone could help me or point me in the right direction towards a copy of the included Tsutomu Ōhashi essay included the akira blu ray release. Its just that I am writing my thesis on unconscious and subliminal sound perception and have written quite a bit on the hypersonic effect and hfc's etc. and would love to include a section on the modern applications of hfcs in soundtracks- i.e. akira. Also the film is aawesome! so thats a huge bonus when writing a thesis! hope someone can help- cheers and thank you- pete

Are you talking about the mini-booklet that was included in the initial run, or is this a special on the disc? I haven't delved that far into it, but my copy did include the booklet and it does go into some depth about the hypersonic effect. Outside of finding a copy that includes it (which to my understanding is a bit rare) I would think someone would have to photocopy it for you. Alternatively you could try contacting the studio or the writer to see if they can help you track down a copy.

The whole HFC bit is very interesting to me- especially the shot of the brain scan while listening to a "normal" track vs. an HFC one. The brain is supposedly much more active. I have my doubts about it (as noted in an earlier post) but it's a neat theory.

Good luck on your thesis. Sounds interesting.

[statikcat]

Originally Posted by ToEhrIsHuman

yes...let's please end this confusion once and for all. 192kHz sampling means 192,000 "time slices" or samples of the waveform, whereas typical redbook CDs are sampled at 44.1kHz and typical BD audio at 48kHz (or 44,100 and 48,000 times per second respectively). This means for every one sample at 48kHz you are getting four samples at 192kHz, which would be more data per second and a more accurate representation of the original analog waveform. The stream also takes up roughly 4 times as much space on the disc too - less with lossless compression.

These numbers have absolutely nothing to do with audible frequencies, i.e. the pitch of sound (highs and lows).

Not entirely true. The samplerate dictates the maximum frequency that can be captured. Half the sample rate is the highest freq. So 192k sample can capture upwards of 96k in frequencies. Of course this does not mean anything is actually happening at 96k or that your ears even benefit from it. A lot of advocates of high sample rates will suggest that you can feel the transients present in frequencies above 20khz.. although that will vary on the person. Ultimately it is more of an empty sales pitch than anything. Higher is better, etc.

[tilapiah6]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Honestly, as long as you can HEAR, there's an amazing difference here. No golden ears B.S., nothing like that. I don't buy into "hypersonics" or any of that mess, but it's really impressive. Being a naysayer without even hearing it for yourself is just foolish.

By the way, it's a stellar mix on top of being truly top-of-the-line bitrate.

Completely agreed. Akira has quite possibly the finest audio quality of any Blu-ray I've ever heard.

[mlb]

Originally Posted by tilapiah6

Completely agreed. Akira has quite possibly the finest audio quality of any Blu-ray I've ever heard.

Ditto that. I just went out and bought it today and watched/listened to it based on reading this thred. It's my holy grail for high def audio at the moment and I look forward to finding more of the same quality . . .

mlb

[Jeff Kleist]

Are you talking about the mini-booklet that was included in the initial run, or is this a special on the disc? I haven't delved that far into it, but my copy did include the booklet and it does go into some depth about the hypersonic effect. Outside of finding a copy that includes it (which to my understanding is a bit rare) I would think someone would have to photocopy it for you. Alternatively you could try contacting the studio or the writer to see if they can help you track down a copy.

They're totally gone. They ran out less than two weeks after release, and went through 3 pressings pretty rapidly

[PeterTHX]

I got mine fairly recently.

Sitting on a shelf in a Border's bookstore Blu-ray case.

[Jeff Kleist]

I was just saying you're SOL when it comes to the studio

[Rieper]

I remember getting AKIRA on VHS a few years back... it had a Pioneer logo if I remember correctly.

Did Pioneer have anything to do with bringing AKIRA to the States?

Japanese Anime must've been a pretty new (and risky) concept to introduce to American audiences back when AKIRA was made... or I would assume anyway.

Oh yeah, which came first, Fist of the Northstar or AKIRA?

Also, any word if FotNS will be coming out on Blu-ray anytime soon?

[JediFonger]

i've got a few audio engineering students@Berklee college o' music who also write and perform and record their own music. even though they're poor. they're all willing to bet $100 that no1 can tell the diff. above 48kHz sampling rate. even though they have the technical wherewithal to record to 192kHz sampling, they choose to record @48kHz. there's no point in 192kHz.

where they DO hear a diff. is 16-bit vs. 24-bit vs. 32-bit float. so if they start increasing the bits to 32... it will sound better.

i dont think BDs support higher than 24-bits.

meanwhile, a few questions:
-i read that LPCM can handle 7.1 24-bit/192kHz max, that true?
-also read that Dolby's TrueHD codec supports 24-bit/96kHz for upto 22.22 channels, but is limited by the AV Receivers' hardware implementations.
-w/regard to BDs, TrueHD's 5.1 can do 24/192 but once u start going 6.1 or 7.1 it'll go down to 24/96?
-DTS-HD can do 24/192 for everything from 2.0 through 7.1. but i hear it also supports 22ch?

Originally Posted by phantompwr

some people on this thread really don't know what they are talking about.

Personally I don't believe that you can hear the difference with those higher sampling rates. I wouldn't discourage them, and it does make it a little easier for the analog to digital converters when you sample that high. I would rather see 32 bit floating point depth instead of 192kHz sampling rates, but I don't think that is going to happen any time soon. I'm just happy we are getting 24 bit at least.

Just my 2 cents

[Jeff Kleist]

remember getting AKIRA on VHS a few years back... it had a Pioneer logo if I remember correctly.

Did Pioneer have anything to do with bringing AKIRA to the States?

Japanese Anime must've been a pretty new (and risky) concept to introduce to American audiences back when AKIRA was made... or I would assume anyway.

Oh yeah, which came first, Fist of the Northstar or AKIRA?

Also, any word if FotNS will be coming out on Blu-ray anytime soon?

The Pioneer dub was used on the disc, but no. Pioneer (now Geneon) is no longer distributing in the US. The Fist of the North Star movie is assembled out of episodes of the television show, and the rights on it are a mess, though I believe there are still DVDs from Manga floating around of it. I do have the way OOP Image DVD of the movie for sale, PM me if interested.

-i read that LPCM can handle 7.1 24-bit/192kHz max, that true?

LPCM will do whatever you want, but on Blu-ray there isn't the audio bandwidth for that. They barely managed to squeeze 5.1 TrueHD in there with a few other audio tracks. As fro the 22 channels thing, yes I believe they have that in the lab, but no one will implement it, except in some crazy custom implementation at a theme park or something.

I can only cite my own experience, but even on my own modest setup, the difference between 48 and 96 is incredibly noticeable. While I don't have a 96khz version to compare it to, I can tell you it's the greatest fidelity I have even witnessed in a motion picture. The presence in the room. So while I don't think I'm willing to risk $100, I am willing to take their challenge

[Paulness]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if the English dub on the Blu is from the original US theatrical release/Laserdisc, or the new "remaster" from the DVD?

I loved the laserdisc, but hated the english dub on the DVD... expecially since they pronounced names differently... KenAda became Canada

[Beerserker]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The Fist of the North Star movie is assembled out of episodes of the television show, and the rights on it are a mess, though I believe there are still DVDs from Manga floating around of it.

The Fist of the North Star Movie isn't really assembled from the TV series. It is a condensed version of about half of the story that is covered in the TV series and the manga. It's Original animation though. That may be what you ment, but it came across a bit different.

It was re-released just recently byyyy... somebody, - I can't remember -, on DVD.

[WiWavelength]

The unsubstantiated assertions in this thread that the "Akira" BD Dolby TrueHD track 192 kHz sampling rate has audible or even subliminal benefits (beyond the placebo effect) are highly suspect. Those assertions rely upon at least three assumptions:

1. Assuming that "Akira" was recorded on analog magnetic tape, the entire recording chain (e.g. microphones, preamps, reel to reel decks, tape stock) was capable of reasonable ultrasonic (e.g. >20 kHz) frequency response. (Possible)

2. Assuming that reasonable ultrasonic frequency response was maintained throughout the entire recording chain, the soundtrack -- dialog, music, and/or effects -- for "Akira" contains significant ultrasonic content. (Unlikely)

3. Assuming that both of the aforementioned necessary conditions (assumptions) were true of "Akira," the user's entire home playback system is capable of reasonable ultrasonic frequency response. (Unlikely)

If any of the three previous conditions (assumptions) are not met, then the supposed ultrasonic benefits are rendered negligible.

(And the last assumption is, perhaps, the most damning. Many fabric dome tweeters already have diminishing response by 20 kHz. Many metal dome tweeters have a spiky resonance in the 20-30 kHz range, followed by a rapid high frequency rolloff.)

Like it or not, folks, that is logic & science. What you think or believe is often farce.

AJ

[JediFonger]

celion dion's concert BD has 96kHz. i listen to it vs. powerdvd (downrez to 48). very little diff. =P

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The Pioneer dub was used on the disc, but no. Pioneer (now Geneon) is no longer distributing in the US. The Fist of the North Star movie is assembled out of episodes of the television show, and the rights on it are a mess, though I believe there are still DVDs from Manga floating around of it. I do have the way OOP Image DVD of the movie for sale, PM me if interested.



LPCM will do whatever you want, but on Blu-ray there isn't the audio bandwidth for that. They barely managed to squeeze 5.1 TrueHD in there with a few other audio tracks. As fro the 22 channels thing, yes I believe they have that in the lab, but no one will implement it, except in some crazy custom implementation at a theme park or something.

I can only cite my own experience, but even on my own modest setup, the difference between 48 and 96 is incredibly noticeable. While I don't have a 96khz version to compare it to, I can tell you it's the greatest fidelity I have even witnessed in a motion picture. The presence in the room. So while I don't think I'm willing to risk $100, I am willing to take their challenge

[Jeff Kleist]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if the English dub on the Blu is from the original US theatrical release/Laserdisc, or the new "remaster" from the DVD?

I loved the laserdisc, but hated the english dub on the DVD... expecially since they pronounced names differently... KenAda became Canada

That's how "Kaneda" is pronounced. In Japanese emphasis on first and last syllables, KAneDA, and typically middle syllables are sort-of fast slurred over (listen to the Japanese track and you'll see what I mean).

You'll likely never see the godawful Kodansha dub again.

1. Assuming that "Akira" was recorded on analog magnetic tape, the entire recording chain (e.g. microphones, preamps, reel to reel decks, tape stock) was capable of reasonable ultrasonic (e.g. >20 kHz) frequency response. (Possible)

2. Assuming that reasonable ultrasonic frequency response was maintained throughout the entire recording chain, the soundtrack -- dialog, music, and/or effects -- for "Akira" contains significant ultrasonic content. (Unlikely)

I can only confirm that on the music 100%. The music part of the Blu-ray mix was sourced from the original studio tapes, which were recorded in a top of the line studio meeting the composer's exacting standards (the whole 192/24 thing was his idea, see the piece I did here). It was analog reel to reel across the board however, and those tapes were used for the blu. While of course, my analysis is subjective in this case, I stand by my statement of how good it sounds in comparison with other films of similar quality and vintage.

Akira was, at the time the most expensive anime movie ever made, and they splurged big time on every aspect. Check out the Akira Production Report that's on the Pioneer DVD for more details. As it stands, it's probably the one anime film that could get real benefit from that process.

celion dion's concert BD has 96kHz. i listen to it vs. powerdvd (downrez to 48). very little diff. =P

Well, that is your problem then

[Zen_Amako]

Originally Posted by Beerserker

The Fist of the North Star Movie isn't really assembled from the TV series. It is a condensed version of about half of the story that is covered in the TV series and the manga. It's Original animation though. That may be what you ment, but it came across a bit different.

It was re-released just recently byyyy... somebody, - I can't remember -, on DVD.

The Fist of the North Star movie was released on DVD last year by Discotek.
The previous release was from Image and I'm pretty sure it only had English audio. Streamline released it on VHS. Manga released the TV series.

The movie is one of those anime features that is a condensed version of a TV series, but with original animation (sort of like the Macross movie).