SPECTRE Review Thread

[Darth Marcus]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Well it obviously depends on what you're looking for and when you started. I grew up watching the Moore films and love them to death. Quantum of Solace is completely disposable nonsense to me and feels more like a Bourne movie than a Bond movie.

Bingo. These different incarnations are so different that everyone seems to have a preference over the other. I grew up during the Pierce era, so I'm used to having some playfulness, albeit controlled playfulness. The action edits in Quantum of Solace do give off a Bourne feel, and it is bothersome. But I really enjoy the continuation of the Casino Royale story, and I really love the chemistry between Daniel Craig and Judi Dench. It's something I'm going to miss in the new film, although I'm sure Ralph Fiennes is more than up to the task. I'm fascinated by Craig's Bond. His quiet intensity masked by his sarcastic wit draws me in every time.

I think Moore drew on the main differences himself when he said:

"I played Bond as a lover. Daniel does it as a killer."

[Kevin Holly]

Originally Posted by Darth Marcus

Bingo. These different incarnations are so different that everyone seems to have a preference over the other. I grew up during the Pierce era, so I'm used to having some playfulness, albeit controlled playfulness.

It's not just what you grew up though. The first few Bonds I saw were Brosnan ones (I'm pretty sure I saw TWINE and DAD in theatres) and in those days, I pretty much said, "I don't like James Bond," because I wasn't impressed with those films even then. Only when I started watching the backlog did I realize that it was a franchise of great films. It's too bad, too, because Dalton could conceivably have been playing Bond up to around 2002 (that's how old Moore was when he stopped).

[Darth Marcus]

Originally Posted by Kevin Holly

It's not just what you grew up though. The first few Bonds I saw were Brosnan ones (I'm pretty sure I saw TWINE and DAD in theatres) and in those days, I pretty much said, "I don't like James Bond," because I wasn't impressed with those films even then. Only when I started watching the backlog did I realize that it was a franchise of great films. It's too bad, too, because Dalton could conceivably have been playing Bond up to around 2002 (that's how old Moore was when he stopped).

Why'd you start off with his two weakest films?

There are actually several parts of The World is Not Enough that I enjoy, and I'll always love Pierce as Bond. Just why, oh why did they cast Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist? Die Another Day is just a bad film, to no fault of Pierce who had the misfortune of carrying that film on his shoulders.

Goldeneye was the first Bond film I ever watched, followed by Tomorrow Never Dies. Those films kind of set the tone of Bond for me, and I still love Goldeneye from top to bottom today, dated soundtrack and all.

That's interesting you prefer Dalton over Brosnan. I don't have any problems with what Dalton did, and I think he would have had a more interesting run as Bond had he been given more opportunities, but I'm glad Pierce came along. I do prefer Dalton to Moore, though.

[StingingVelvet]

I like Pierce as well, and I think both Tomorrow Never Dies and The World is Not Enough are underrated, fun movies. Only Die Another Day is actually "bad" in my opinion. Goldeneye is the amazingly good one. Wish the blu ray was better.

The Connery and Moore eras are very different though, whether you grew up with them or not. You either like their style or you don't. I totally understand why someone might love Brosnan Bond and not Moore Bond.

[Ben_UK]

I think Goldeneye is the almost perfect Bond film. However a few minor things bug me. The skydive into the plane bit. Firstly, it looks like dog****, bad blue screen and all. Secondly, Bond films prided themselves on doing practical effects and stunts, using effects to me felt really cheap. I know the wide angle stunt was done for real BTW, but the closeup and the interior shots are so obviously special effects based. Thirdly, its totally impossible. I know its Bond and I know a lot of what he does has to be taken with a large pinch of salt, but he can't break the laws of physics, its lunacy and would never work in reality. In my view, this stunt could have been done all practically, with a few alterations and would have still been "spectacular". Instead of Bond riding the bike off the cliff and diving down after the plane, he could have rode the bike up to the plane on the edge of the runway, then grabbed hold of the door, then hung on to the outside of the plane as it plunged downwards into the ravine. It could have all been done as stunt work and wouldn't have looked like a**, and been far more believable.

The other bit that bugs me is the tank sequence. Putting aside its ridiculous premise for a moment, I can almost accept the idea of Bond bombing around in a tank, I mean its stupid, but ok. Then, he crashes into a statue and the statue magically sits on top of the tank. Ugh. Why was that ever considered a good idea I do not know.

Apart from those few things I think Goldeneye is pretty much spot on.

[Kevin Holly]

Originally Posted by Darth Marcus

Why'd you start off with his two weakest films?

That's interesting you prefer Dalton over Brosnan. I don't have any problems with what Dalton did, and I think he would have had a more interesting run as Bond had he been given more opportunities, but I'm glad Pierce came along. I do prefer Dalton to Moore, though.

That was what my dad took me to in the theatre when I was a kid, I guess. I was too young when the other ones came out.

Oh, I love Dalton. He's by far my favorite.

[Samus Aran]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I like Pierce as well, and I think both Tomorrow Never Dies and The World is Not Enough are underrated, fun movies. Only Die Another Day is actually "bad" in my opinion. Goldeneye is the amazingly good one. Wish the blu ray was better.

The Connery and Moore eras are very different though, whether you grew up with them or not. You either like their style or you don't. I totally understand why someone might love Brosnan Bond and not Moore Bond.

I enjoyed the first three Brosnan movies. Die Another Day started out really good too, then it transitioned from a Dalton movie into a Moore movie.

I wonder if the Bond actors have much input on the script or if they're just hired guns because of the contract they signed. Brosnan clearly wasn't happy with how Die Another Day turned out. I saw an interview somewhere where he was just laughing about how absurd the third act set pieces were.

[klauswhereareyou]

Since Deakins isn't going to be back I hope they shoot on film.

[The Dragon]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

I think Goldeneye is the almost perfect Bond film. However a few minor things bug me. The skydive into the plane bit. Firstly, it looks like dog****, bad blue screen and all. Secondly, Bond films prided themselves on doing practical effects and stunts, using effects to me felt really cheap. I know the wide angle stunt was done for real BTW, but the closeup and the interior shots are so obviously special effects based. Thirdly, its totally impossible. I know its Bond and I know a lot of what he does has to be taken with a large pinch of salt, but he can't break the laws of physics, its lunacy and would never work in reality. In my view, this stunt could have been done all practically, with a few alterations and would have still been "spectacular". Instead of Bond riding the bike off the cliff and diving down after the plane, he could have rode the bike up to the plane on the edge of the runway, then grabbed hold of the door, then hung on to the outside of the plane as it plunged downwards into the ravine. It could have all been done as stunt work and wouldn't have looked like a**, and been far more believable.

The other bit that bugs me is the tank sequence. Putting aside its ridiculous premise for a moment, I can almost accept the idea of Bond bombing around in a tank, I mean its stupid, but ok. Then, he crashes into a statue and the statue magically sits on top of the tank. Ugh. Why was that ever considered a good idea I do not know.

Apart from those few things I think Goldeneye is pretty much spot on.

It's BOND.

[Xenia]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Well it obviously depends on what you're looking for and when you started. I grew up watching the Moore films and love them to death. Quantum of Solace is completely disposable nonsense to me and feels more like a Bourne movie than a Bond movie.

Yes! While I like Quantum it definitely is the least-Bond of any Bond film.

Also Moonraker is awesome. And so is Roger Moore.

[Kevin Holly]

Alright, everyone's teasing it. I'll be the first.

[Show spoiler]9/10 Range
License to Kill
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Dr. No

8/10 Range
The Living Daylights
Thunderball
Casino Royale
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
The Man With the Golden Gun
Live and Let Die
A View to a Kill

7/10 Range
You Only Live Twice
Skyfall
For Your Eyes Only
Goldeneye
Casino Royale (1967)
Diamonds Are Forever
The Spy Who Loved Me
Never Say Never Again
Quantum of Solace

6/10 Range
Octopussy

5/10 Range
Moonraker

4/10 Range
Casino Royale (1954)
The World Is Not Enough

3/10 Range
Tomorrow Never Dies

2/10 Range
Die Another Day

[cornbread_1788]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

I loved Skyfall, but still think Casino Royale is the best of Craig's by a long shot. I would happily welcome a return to a more traditional "fun" Bond adventure this time. Something like The Living Daylights would be nice.

The Living Daylights, excellent Bond film, great fun, love the theme. Glad I'm not the only to think so.

[cornbread_1788]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Since Deakins isn't going to be back I hope they shoot on film.

On the MI6-HQ.com website, they confirmed on going back to 35mm film and possibly 65mm IMAX as well. Glad to say that Bond is going back to film, I thought SkyFall lacked the depth that film allows although it did look amazing, but not Casino Royale amazing or even On Her Majesty's Secret Service amazing.

[Infernal King]

I am a huge Bond fan. I daresay probably even more so than any of you.

I am still unable to take the character seriously. That's why, when the movies recognize that being Bond is f'ing AWESOME and they have a sense of humor about themselves, I typically love them (some exceptions to that rule like Die Another Day).

When they're morose and philosophize on the nature of being a spy, that's when they tend to lose me. The character is too ridiculous, even in a serious movie like Casino Royale (which has plenty of unrealistic moments).

I'd say movies like Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies hit the sweet spot of having some intense moments (Bond being betrayed by 006, killing Dr. Kaufman in cold blood as revenge for the murder of a woman he actually loved) while also being over the top (most action scenes in both films as well as the baddies' plans) and sprinkled with plenty of moments of levity.

[cornbread_1788]

Originally Posted by Kevin Holly

Alright, everyone's teasing it. I'll be the first.

[Show spoiler]9/10 Range
License to Kill
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Dr. No

8/10 Range
The Living Daylights
Thunderball
Casino Royale
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
The Man With the Golden Gun
Live and Let Die
A View to a Kill

7/10 Range
You Only Live Twice
Skyfall
For Your Eyes Only
Goldeneye
Casino Royale (1967)
Diamonds Are Forever
The Spy Who Loved Me
Never Say Never Again
Quantum of Solace

6/10 Range
Octopussy

5/10 Range
Moonraker

4/10 Range
Casino Royale (1954)
The World Is Not Enough

3/10 Range
Tomorrow Never Dies

2/10 Range
Die Another Day

Ranked so high!!!!!!

Here's my picks..... Love all the Bond films but some less than others

11 Best in no particular order

On Her Majesty's Secret Service
The Living Daylights
GoldenEye
Goldfinger
From Russia with Love
Dr. No
The Spy Who Loved Me
For Your Eyes Only
Casino Royale
SkyFall
Licence to Kill

The 1 middle of the road film

Octopussy

And the rest of the 11

Thunderball
You Only Live Twice
Diamonds Are Forever
Live & Let Die
The Man with the Golden Gun
Moonraker
A View to a Kill
The World is Not Enough
Die Another Day
Quantum of Solace
Tomorrow Never Dies

[Infernal King]

I'm always changing most of the Bond films' positions in any ranked list I make so if I watched them all in a marathon this week, it'd probably be at least somewhat different than the one below.

I'll just group them by how entertaining I think they are.

Favorite: Tomorrow Never Dies (most underrated)

Least Favorite: Quantum of Solace

In chronological order

Great: From Russia With Love, Goldfinger, You Only Live Twice, The Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker, Octopussy, Goldeneye, Skyfall

Good: Dr. No, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Live and Let Die, Casino Royale (most overrated)

Average: Thunderball, The Man With the Golden Gun, For Your Eyes Only, The Living Daylights, Licence to Kill, The World Is Not Enough

Poor: Diamonds Are Forever, A View to a Kill, Die Another Day

Connery, Moore and Brosnan ended their tenures with some pretty bad movies. Hopefully Craig's run doesn't end with another Quantum of Solace.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

I think Goldeneye is the almost perfect Bond film. However a few minor things bug me. The skydive into the plane bit. Firstly, it looks like dog****, bad blue screen and all. Secondly, Bond films prided themselves on doing practical effects and stunts, using effects to me felt really cheap. I know the wide angle stunt was done for real BTW, but the closeup and the interior shots are so obviously special effects based. Thirdly, its totally impossible. I know its Bond and I know a lot of what he does has to be taken with a large pinch of salt, but he can't break the laws of physics, its lunacy and would never work in reality. In my view, this stunt could have been done all practically, with a few alterations and would have still been "spectacular". Instead of Bond riding the bike off the cliff and diving down after the plane, he could have rode the bike up to the plane on the edge of the runway, then grabbed hold of the door, then hung on to the outside of the plane as it plunged downwards into the ravine. It could have all been done as stunt work and wouldn't have looked like a**, and been far more believable.

The other bit that bugs me is the tank sequence. Putting aside its ridiculous premise for a moment, I can almost accept the idea of Bond bombing around in a tank, I mean its stupid, but ok. Then, he crashes into a statue and the statue magically sits on top of the tank. Ugh. Why was that ever considered a good idea I do not know.

Apart from those few things I think Goldeneye is pretty much spot on.

Bond craziness at its best. These films can cheat plausibility if the end result is so awesome and hilarious.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Samus Aran

I enjoyed the first three Brosnan movies. Die Another Day started out really good too, then it transitioned from a Dalton movie into a Moore movie.

I wonder if the Bond actors have much input on the script or if they're just hired guns because of the contract they signed. Brosnan clearly wasn't happy with how Die Another Day turned out. I saw an interview somewhere where he was just laughing about how absurd the third act set pieces were.

What's funny is Brosnan reportedly really wanted them to do a "dark a gritty" reboot and then told him no, did the films they did with him, then rebooted it with a different actors. I feel bad for Brosnan because of that. Despite Goldeneye being great he kind of got screwed.

And it's been a while since I watched Die Another Day, but I agree the first two acts are pretty decent. Not great but decent. That third act though... it's so bad.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

What's funny is Brosnan reportedly really wanted them to do a "dark a gritty" reboot and then told him no, did the films they did with him, then rebooted it with a different actors. I feel bad for Brosnan because of that. Despite Goldeneye being great he kind of got screwed.

And it's been a while since I watched Die Another Day, but I agree the first two acts are pretty decent. Not great but decent. That third act though... it's so bad.

The story I heard is that Brosnan wanted to do Casino Royale after Die Another Day (Tarantino offered to direct). I don't think he had a "dark and gritty reboot" conversation before then.

[Kryptonic]

Best to worst:

Casino Royale
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
The Living Daylights
From Russia with Love
For Your Eyes Only
The World is Not Enough
Licence to Kill
Octopussy
Skyfall
Goldeneye
Thunderball
The Spy Who Loved Me
Tomorrow Never Dies
You Only Live Twice
Live and Let Die
Quantum of Solace
Dr. No
Moonraker
Goldfinger
A View to a Kill
Man with the Golden Gun
Diamonds are Forever
Die Another Day