The Shining (1980)

[Presence]

I found this random website through StumbleUpon that looks like It's from the dark ages. "Five thing you probably didn't notice in the Shining"

1. During Jack’s opening drive up to the Overlook, there’s the slight sound on the soundtrack of Danny’s tricycle going over the floor of the Hotel.

2. During the second drive to the Overlook, Jack, Wendy, and Danny Torrence get into a discussion about the Donner Party. Wendy tries to protect her child from hearing this sordid tale of cannibalism, but Danny says he already heard about it on TV. Jack finds this amusing and says "See, it’s all right. He heard about it on the TV." Later, Wendy clubs Jack over the head with a baseball bat and drags him into a storeroom. He finds himself locked in a room full of nothing but nationally advertised products. When he escapes, he speaks in lines out of television. ("Honey, I’m home!" and "Here’s Johnny.") He’s on a murderous rampage, but it’s all right - you’ve heard it all on TV.

3. Every time Jack talks to certain characters, he’s actually talking to himself. This is most apparent in the scene with the waiter in the bathroom, where he never looks at the waiter. Look closely at the above picture and you’ll see that he is actually staring at himself in the mirror throughout the entire scene. There’s also a mirror behind the bartender, behind the lady in room 237, and on Jack’s side of the door in the storeroom. Be on the lookout for characters who always have windows behind them and tell me what it means.

4. In one scene, Jack notices his wife trying to read over his shoulder while he’s typing. He tears the sheet from the typewriter and throws it on the floor. When Wendy leaves and Jack turns around to begin typing again, there’s a fresh sheet of paper in the typewriter. Kubrick doesn’t make mistakes like that. The Overlook is actually feeding Jack paper.

5. Danny sees bodies of two dead girls at the end of a hallway. We assume it’s a flashback to the twins killed by the waiter. But if Jack has always been the caretaker, as several scenes suggest, we know who really killed them.

#3 and #5 are subjective observations rather than something you can go back and look at but I never noticed any of these or thought about them in the 5 or so times I've seen the movie. What about you guys?

[retablo]

Originally Posted by pmontreux

I found this random website through StumbleUpon that looks like It's from the dark ages. "Five thing you probably didn't notice in the Shining"

1. During Jack’s opening drive up to the Overlook, there’s the slight sound on the soundtrack of Danny’s tricycle going over the floor of the Hotel.

2. During the second drive to the Overlook, Jack, Wendy, and Danny Torrence get into a discussion about the Donner Party. Wendy tries to protect her child from hearing this sordid tale of cannibalism, but Danny says he already heard about it on TV. Jack finds this amusing and says "See, it’s all right. He heard about it on the TV." Later, Wendy clubs Jack over the head with a baseball bat and drags him into a storeroom. He finds himself locked in a room full of nothing but nationally advertised products. When he escapes, he speaks in lines out of television. ("Honey, I’m home!" and "Here’s Johnny.") He’s on a murderous rampage, but it’s all right - you’ve heard it all on TV.

3. Every time Jack talks to certain characters, he’s actually talking to himself. This is most apparent in the scene with the waiter in the bathroom, where he never looks at the waiter. Look closely at the above picture and you’ll see that he is actually staring at himself in the mirror throughout the entire scene. There’s also a mirror behind the bartender, behind the lady in room 237, and on Jack’s side of the door in the storeroom. Be on the lookout for characters who always have windows behind them and tell me what it means.

4. In one scene, Jack notices his wife trying to read over his shoulder while he’s typing. He tears the sheet from the typewriter and throws it on the floor. When Wendy leaves and Jack turns around to begin typing again, there’s a fresh sheet of paper in the typewriter. Kubrick doesn’t make mistakes like that. The Overlook is actually feeding Jack paper.

5. Danny sees bodies of two dead girls at the end of a hallway. We assume it’s a flashback to the twins killed by the waiter. But if Jack has always been the caretaker, as several scenes suggest, we know who really killed them.

#3 and #5 are subjective observations rather than something you can go back and look at but I never noticed any of these or thought about them in the 5 or so times I've seen the movie. What about you guys?

#2 is pretty interesting.

[Presence]

All of them are interesting to me actually. I'll re-watch it again soon with these in mind. Especially #1 and #4.

[AlexSing]

Originally Posted by pmontreux

I found this random website through StumbleUpon that looks like It's from the dark ages. "Five thing you probably didn't notice in the Shining"

1. During Jack’s opening drive up to the Overlook, there’s the slight sound on the soundtrack of Danny’s tricycle going over the floor of the Hotel.

2. During the second drive to the Overlook, Jack, Wendy, and Danny Torrence get into a discussion about the Donner Party. Wendy tries to protect her child from hearing this sordid tale of cannibalism, but Danny says he already heard about it on TV. Jack finds this amusing and says "See, it’s all right. He heard about it on the TV." Later, Wendy clubs Jack over the head with a baseball bat and drags him into a storeroom. He finds himself locked in a room full of nothing but nationally advertised products. When he escapes, he speaks in lines out of television. ("Honey, I’m home!" and "Here’s Johnny.") He’s on a murderous rampage, but it’s all right - you’ve heard it all on TV.

3. Every time Jack talks to certain characters, he’s actually talking to himself. This is most apparent in the scene with the waiter in the bathroom, where he never looks at the waiter. Look closely at the above picture and you’ll see that he is actually staring at himself in the mirror throughout the entire scene. There’s also a mirror behind the bartender, behind the lady in room 237, and on Jack’s side of the door in the storeroom. Be on the lookout for characters who always have windows behind them and tell me what it means.

4. In one scene, Jack notices his wife trying to read over his shoulder while he’s typing. He tears the sheet from the typewriter and throws it on the floor. When Wendy leaves and Jack turns around to begin typing again, there’s a fresh sheet of paper in the typewriter. Kubrick doesn’t make mistakes like that. The Overlook is actually feeding Jack paper.

5. Danny sees bodies of two dead girls at the end of a hallway. We assume it’s a flashback to the twins killed by the waiter. But if Jack has always been the caretaker, as several scenes suggest, we know who really killed them.

#3 and #5 are subjective observations rather than something you can go back and look at but I never noticed any of these or thought about them in the 5 or so times I've seen the movie. What about you guys?

that's a great post, fascinating stuff

So is it genrally accepted that Jack has always been the caretaker and thus committed the previous murders? If so what's with the job interview and his family never being there before? Sorry to be stupid but I'm really confused now

[thor]

What a awesome film. This movie still has me guessing. Like at the end of the film when he is in the 1923 ball picture.

[riverbelow]

Originally Posted by AlexSing

that's a great post, fascinating stuff

So is it genrally accepted that Jack has always been the caretaker and thus committed the previous murders? If so what's with the job interview and his family never being there before? Sorry to be stupid but I'm really confused now

Re-incarnation I thought it suggests...

He can't always have been the caretaker if hes in a black and white early 1900 photo then looking same age in 1980. There are a number of technical possibilities actually.

1. It is reincarnation where when dead, jack is reborn from a baby and grows up looking the same, AND finding his way through fate to being the caretaker again, where the hotel spirits corrupt him again to murder.

2. Jack that we see in the movie, is an audience depiction, he looks different every reincarnation but kubrick wants us to see him as the same guy in the photo (the earlier incarnation of jack).

3. It is not reincarnation but a spirit possession, and again the visual of "jack" we are given is how the spirit looks. Audience is given shining via the film so that each "jack" that is caretaker looks the same to us...

I believe it is reincarnation (because he talks about strong dejavu, and time differential is consistent) and explanation 2, because its more plausable than jack being the same looks in every life. Its got to be a perception thing. Overall I like that its mysterious and ambiguous. I have this view for fun, not for serious

edit: Film looks amazing on blu-ray. The whole experience was revolutionary for me. I never got swept away by the DVD. This changed the game completely. 5/5 the other day. First watch on blu

[horizonline]

Or it could be:

4. The black and white photo could be non related to the final product, but was from a previous idea.

5. Kubrick always wanted a black and white photo at the end of one of his films.

[bigrob]

there's a similar thing with John Carpenter's the Thing

there is a video on youtube that shows you lots of hidden thigs throughout the film

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Neutron82

too bad kubrick isn't around to elaborate on this since these guys have a lot of time on their hands to find all of these inconsistencies lol... i do find it interesting but it makes you wonder if some of it was done due to set limitations or if he really meant to do it

Kubrick wouldn't have elaborated a damn thing if he was alive, that's for sure.

[Presence]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Kubrick wouldn't have elaborated a damn thing if he was alive, that's for sure.

Completely true.

[rainier4000]

Anyone else annoyed with the pink tennis ball? And no, it's not supposed to be that color. It's always been yellow before the HD transfers onto Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

[AlexSing]

Originally Posted by riverbelow

Re-incarnation I thought it suggests...

He can't always have been the caretaker if hes in a black and white early 1900 photo then looking same age in 1980. There are a number of technical possibilities actually.

1. It is reincarnation where when dead, jack is reborn from a baby and grows up looking the same, AND finding his way through fate to being the caretaker again, where the hotel spirits corrupt him again to murder.

2. Jack that we see in the movie, is an audience depiction, he looks different every reincarnation but kubrick wants us to see him as the same guy in the photo (the earlier incarnation of jack).

3. It is not reincarnation but a spirit possession, and again the visual of "jack" we are given is how the spirit looks. Audience is given shining via the film so that each "jack" that is caretaker looks the same to us...

I believe it is reincarnation (because he talks about strong dejavu, and time differential is consistent) and explanation 2, because its more plausable than jack being the same looks in every life. Its got to be a perception thing. Overall I like that its mysterious and ambiguous. I have this view for fun, not for serious

edit: Film looks amazing on blu-ray. The whole experience was revolutionary for me. I never got swept away by the DVD. This changed the game completely. 5/5 the other day. First watch on blu

Great post - thanks loads. I like the ideas of 2 and 3 best.

[Taco Tuesday]

RE: that long post ... anyone realize that the entire movie is a metaphor for the slaughter of Native Americans and other similar genocides/atrocities in human history?

Originally Posted by rainier4000

Anyone else annoyed with the pink tennis ball? And no, it's not supposed to be that color. It's always been yellow before the HD transfers onto Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

YES. Damn. This bothers me SO much.

[retablo]

There's also The SHONE REPORT.

New Discovery in Stanley Kubrick's THE SHINING: THE SHONE REPORT - YouTube

[Presence]

There are countless theories behind the "actual" meaning of the movie. None are anymore legitimate than the next.

[AlexSing]

Originally Posted by retablo

There's also The SHONE REPORT.

New Discovery in Stanley Kubrick's THE SHINING: THE SHONE REPORT - YouTube

Fascinating. I'm not sure I totally get all of the significances, but fascinating.

[DarknessBDJM]

I find it a disservice to the film viewing experience to try to make sense of a film like The Shining. To me Kubrick wanted to create the experience of a nightmare in many respects and nightmares have their own logic in that things within it can feel like they make sense to the dreamer, but have no actual logic to them when you examine them. I prefer to just experience films like these.

[riverbelow]

RE: that long post ... anyone realize that the entire movie is a metaphor for the slaughter of Native Americans and other similar genocides/atrocities in human history?

Since the meaning is not at all blatant and only deep film analysis even goes there, I question the relevance of the above quote...A metaphor you extract is not something literally presented to us, which is what we were discussing with the photo and what it means.

Fact is vast majority of people will likely have no inkling of a hidden metaphor nor what it is. They take a movie for what it shows, and it showed a black and white photo of someone who looks exactly the same as the main character. One is left wondering and guessing how it could be?

For you to boil it all down to being linked to being a single metaphor about atrocity is fairly simple minded. Also, I don't know how you would convince me that twin girls in a hallway is a metaphor for atrocity of a culture. Or a Black man driving a snow cat up a mountain. Or a white guy typing obsessively. Ohhhh now I see what you are getting at, the whole entire film a metaphor for slaughter of a people/atrocities against humanity!

Twins, writers block and black guys = atrocity .....

[Benh911f]

Originally Posted by pmontreux

4. In one scene, Jack notices his wife trying to read over his shoulder while he’s typing. He tears the sheet from the typewriter and throws it on the floor. When Wendy leaves and Jack turns around to begin typing again, there’s a fresh sheet of paper in the typewriter. Kubrick doesn’t make mistakes like that. The Overlook is actually feeding Jack paper.

This is the one that always bugged me. I think people at times take it to an extreme. I know Kubick was a perfectionist, but to me, this is a simple continuity error. The man was human. He had so many takes, not everything was intentional.



As far as the ending, I've always subscribed to the reincarnation theory. The way I look at it is both Jack and Grady were reincarnated.
Jack "It's as though I've been here before. Like I knew what was around every corner."
Also, there's the difference with the Grady names. Ullman tells us at the beginning of the film about "Charles" Grady, the caretaker in 1970 who killed his wife and daughters.
The Grady Jack meets in the Gold Room is "Delbert" Grady. This is the 1920s version of Grady, just as its the 1920s version of Jack in the picture. Jack hears the name Grady, and confronts him about the murders. Since this is a different version of Grady, he answers, "I'm sorry sir, I haven't got any recollection of that at all."
However, when Jack keeps pushing it, I think the 1970s version of Grady begins talking to him. After he gets done denying killing his wife and daughters, he then says, "My girls didn't care much for the Overlook at first sir. One of them actually stole a pack of matches, and tried to burn it down. But I CORRECTED them sir. And when my wife tried to prevent me from doing my duty, I CORRECTED her, as well."

So to make a long story short, I think both Grady and Jack are reincarnations. 1920s version - Jack in the picture, and the Grady "Delbert" we/Jack meets.
1970s & 1980s version - "Charles" Grady, who we hear about at the beginning of the movie, that killed his family, and the Jack who is there now, who for some reason "Knew what was around every corner."

[Taco Tuesday]

Originally Posted by riverbelow

Since the meaning is not at all blatant and only deep film analysis even goes there, I question the relevance of the above quote...A metaphor you extract is not something literally presented to us, which is what we were discussing with the photo and what it means.

Fact is vast majority of people will likely have no inkling of a hidden metaphor nor what it is. They take a movie for what it shows, and it showed a black and white photo of someone who looks exactly the same as the main character. One is left wondering and guessing how it could be?

For you to boil it all down to being linked to being a single metaphor about atrocity is fairly simple minded. Also, I don't know how you would convince me that twin girls in a hallway is a metaphor for atrocity of a culture. Or a Black man driving a snow cat up a mountain. Or a white guy typing obsessively. Ohhhh now I see what you are getting at, the whole entire film a metaphor for slaughter of a people/atrocities against humanity!

Twins, writers block and black guys = atrocity .....

I'm not just talking about the photo at the end. I brought it up because people seemed so wowed by a simple occurrence in the movie.

There is so much in this movie about Native Americans it's not funny.

- The hotel was built on a Native American burial ground.
- The art throughout the hotel is very Native American.
- Jack's use of an axe calls to mind the imagery of a tomahawk.
- As Jack goes on his rampage, he is dressed entirely in red, white, and blue ... while Wendy is dressed in brown and green with nature patterns on her clothes.
- In the scene where Danny first sees Dick Halloran "shine" to him, they're in the freezer ... prominently behind his head is a Calumet can with an Indian head logo.

RE: your other points

- The twins are "twins" but have some slight differences between them. This harkens to Carl Jung's "duality of man" theory, which is a favorite for Kubrick (see: Full Metal Jacket, Eyes Wide Shut, etc.). In this movie, the duality is between the pretty, surface-level external self (the beauty of the hotel + the family unit of the Torrences) and the ugly internal "true" self (the murderous events of the past and the trauma when Jack separated Danny's shoulder). These are both metaphors for America ... on the surface it is "the greatest country in the world" (aka Torrences are an ideal nuclear family) but underneath there are truly horrible violent things (aka Jack separating Danny's shoulder).

- The black guy is extremely important to this notion because he is the only person that Jack actually successfully kills. The alpha male white man kills a meek black man. This is a metaphor for slavery, where the white men in power oppressed, hurt, and killed black people in America.

- The significance of the obsessive typing hints that Jack has never typed anything other than "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy". The idea being "he was crazy all along". You can take this as just plot exposition, sure, but to me this ties into everything else I've said because what he's showing you about America isn't new information ... it's been true "all along" aka since Columbus first landed here.

...

I obviously can't "prove" this 100% since there are no notes or interviews where Kubrick says "yup that's it" but if you do some investigating into analyses that pay close attention to the movie, this is the prevailing theory.

More details that might convince you:

- Kubrick chose a Volkswagen for the opening shot ... using imagery to tie to the Holocaust (another human atrocity) since that's how Volkswagen was founded.
- The beautiful woman in the bathroom becomes awful and gross when he looks in the mirror ... more "duality of man" between the perfect exterior vs. the ugly interior.
- When Wendy brings Jack breakfast, almost the entire scene is shown to us through a mirror. Kubrick often uses mirrors to symbolize the duality of man.
- Ullman, the person who interviews Jack, looks a LOT like "Uncle Sam" in the interview scenes. Blue suit, red tie, white shirt ... and there's a prominent American flag on his desk. No coincidence that he's talking about murders in the past during this scene.
- "You've ALWAYS been the caretaker" ... again, Jack isn't BECOMING a violent psychopath, he has ALWAYS been one (i.e. Danny's accident and Jack's alcoholism). Just like how humans are not BECOMING violent and awful .. they ALWAYS have been.
- The ghost caretaker and Jack both call Halloran the n-word in the bathroom scene, evoking more racism in the white characters.
- Jack sarcastically notes that women, money, and alcohol are "the white man's burden" when talking to Lloyd at the bar ... indeed they are the white man's burden, since minorities have a greater burden of being oppressed by the white man.

I could honestly go on for hours about this. Like I said, look it up ... even just google "the shining native american" and you'll find several essays and commentaries from well-respected people. This isn't trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

The brilliance of Kubrick is that you CAN take The Shining solely on the surface-level and still LOVE it because it's a well-crafted, impeccably-directed story. If you dig a little deeper, it just gives you a whole other level on which to appreciate his craft.