Poll: Subtitle positioning in wider ratio (2.20+) movies on Sony Blu-ray Discs

[Spymaster]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

One battle at a time.

Indeed. While I'm delighted that the subtitles on Sony titles are now going to be within the frame - where they belong - I'm still hoping that the original theatrical subtitles will be retained where relevant.

I still absolutely - absolutely - refuse to buy the BD of Bram Stoker's Dracula until the subtitles are restored to how they should be (i.e. how they were in theaters, on laserdisc and on the Superbit DVD).

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

....
One battle at a time.

Yes, indeed. The next key task is to attract Warner's attention to the outcome of this poll and the related facts and merits that were discussed during the poll. I hope and wish that Warner will carefully read this thread and go in the direction shown by the majority.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

You have to pick your battles. Convincing the studio to nudge up the position of the current subtitles is a battle we can win. It will cost them nothing, and requires next to no effort on their part. They have no good reason not to do it.

Convincing them to completely revamp the way subtitles are authored on the disc is a much bigger battle. That will require programming resources and cost them money.

One battle at a time.

No real “battle” with SPHE.
If you check the past posting history here, the way the whole thing went down was a few months ago, Eternal Sunshine brought subtitle positioning to my attention and the issue was simply put on the backburner because of much more pressing matters.

Brain Sturgeon respectfully mentioned his similar sentiment with regards to his personal preference for subtitle positioning with a post in mid-June which, after some reconsideration, sparked the idea in my mind of a survey like I did for lossless DTS vs Dolby preferences…..which actually was a much more passionate topic of discussion.

The “battle” was between the Option #1ers and the Option #2ers on a designated playing field where things can actually be made to happen.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Spymaster

I still absolutely - absolutely - refuse to buy the BD of Bram Stoker's Dracula until the subtitles are restored to how they should be (i.e. how they were in theaters, on laserdisc and on the Superbit DVD).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ_lmVrRUVY

[Spymaster]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ_lmVrRUVY

Yeah, that's what I figured! Thanks!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

Peter and Anthony, how about this? How about the two of you just not watch any movies in languages you don't speak, since that would go against the "director's intent" (which is apparently that only people who speak the native language of the movie should be able to watch it), and leave the issue of subtitles to those of us who actually care? Sounds like the best solution all around to me. Deal?

We are not the ones making asinine comments how the director meant to mess up the pic with graffiti all over it. The reason they are there during the theatrical presentation is that there is no other place for them. For most people that is not the issue. We just don't pretend that when, for example, Night Watch was filmed the director said, it needs English subs all over the place.
I care for the image the director wanted, the set designer developed, the costume designer created.... I understand that subs are there to make us understand what the guy is saying since we can't all understand all languages.

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

We are not the ones making asinine comments how the director meant to mess up the pic with graffiti all over it. The reason they are there during the theatrical presentation is that there is no other place for them. For most people that is not the issue. We just don't pretend that when, for example, Night Watch was filmed the director said, it needs English subs all over the place.

You've just shot yourself in the foot again. In fact, the director of Night Watch specifically designed the subtitles for English-speaking markets in comic book-style fonts that interacted with the imagery on screen. He went out of his way to make the subtitles stand out, because he wanted that "graffiti" all over the screen.

Of course, the Blu-ray throws this entirely away by replacing the original graphic subtitles with generic player-generated captions instead.

[Frozenpinky]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

You've just shot yourself in the foot again. In fact, the director of Night Watch specifically designed the subtitles for English-speaking markets in comic book-style fonts that interacted with the imagery on screen. He went out of his way to make the subtitles stand out, because he wanted that "graffiti" all over the screen.

Of course, the Blu-ray throws this entirely away by replacing the original graphic subtitles with generic player-generated captions instead.

Wait, wait, wai, wait; I recently saw NIGHT WATCH on DVD and loved the original, interactive subtitles! You mean, those subtitles are not on the Blu-ray?!

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by Frozenpinky

Wait, wait, wai, wait; I recently saw NIGHT WATCH on DVD and loved the original, interactive subtitles! You mean, those subtitles are not on the Blu-ray?!

Correct. The Blu-ray just has generic, player-generated text at the bottom.

Ironically, a featurette on the disc was carried over from the DVD which explains how the interactive subtitles (that aren't on the Blu-ray) were created.

Day Watch is the same way.

[Frozenpinky]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

Correct. The Blu-ray just has generic, player-generated text at the bottom.

Ironically, a featurette on the disc was carried over from the DVD which explains how the interactive subtitles (that aren't on the Blu-ray) were created.

Day Watch is the same way.

Holy Crap! That's horrible! The original subtitles were genius! That's half the reason I was going to get the Blu-ray! Now I dont think I will

[Frozenpinky]

So, can we do a screen capture vs screen capture of the DVD vs the BLURAY? I want people to see those awesome, original subs

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

You've just shot yourself in the foot again. In fact, the director of Night Watch specifically designed the subtitles for English-speaking markets in comic book-style fonts that interacted with the imagery on screen. He went out of his way to make the subtitles stand out, because he wanted that "graffiti" all over the screen.

Of course, the Blu-ray throws this entirely away by replacing the original graphic subtitles with generic player-generated captions instead.

so there was writing all over the screen when watched in Russia?

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

so there was writing all over the screen when watched in Russia?

The director himself designed those subtitles. The director intended those subtitles to be on international releases of the movie.

Likewise with the subtitles on Slumdog Millionaire, which are drawn all over the screen in crazy fonts. That "graffiti" is intentional.

[syncguy]

I expect, any director (or almost all directors) would think about subtitles placement for the regional theater releases which would be placed within the picture.

[Swede]

The only REALLY good option for a modern "next-gen" format like blu-ray would be to allow people to select where subtitles should be displayed!

That said, if they won't do that the obvious choice would be to put subtitles inside the picture! A lot of people (me included) has CIH 2.35 setups where subtitles on a lot of blu-ray's simply disappear outside of the screen, COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE!! Even more people that may not have 2.35 screen setups have masking systems to match the content they're viewing, and they of course have the same problem...

I only use subtitles when watching foreign language movies or foreign language scenes that are otherwise in English, and even in those cases it can be VERY annoying when you can hardly see what they're saying.

This is a problem that definitely needs to be fixed!

[Trogdor2010]

Originally Posted by Trogdor2010

This is one of the reasons I'm not considering a CIH set up. Publishers can't make up their minds on where to put their text in the movie, I highly support the choosing where to put text options for ALL blu rays that require text that is for the movie, and I prefer them being in the canvas.

And now I made a CIH set up (because of room conditions and limits of zoom), no regrets. Interesting quoting your own post from a few months.

[Sharky58]

Hey. I am new on this forum. So bare with me on trying to post a message or a reply to this thread.

My DVD stopped reading discs so I replaced it with a Blu-ray Player. The Player is great. plays my DVDs alot better than the DVD player. And I bought my first Blu-ray movies.

I am deaf. with some vision limitions. I found out the blu-ray disc dont support closed caption. It's to do with their HDMI which I think it is their poor excuse. I been trying to look up this part for some time now.

Ok there is a subtitles option on every DVD and Blu-ray. The problem? Well I did mention I have some limited vision. Not blind but partly. So just imange having the text, white text, no background right on the picture. You couldnt see the words. could you?

It was always the problem with Uversal Studios DVDs. they dont include the captioning, while all the other DVD's did. With the disc's own subtitles, and on a picture. it is hard for me to see. unless the picture is filmed in a dark area. or the test is on the letter box.

If Closed caption which is a 21 line file is part of the old days. then Blu-ray should have something where we can choose the subtitles any way we want. with the fonts. the color. the background and color..

I know I may not be the only one out there that has this problem. I thought that newer stuff would be alot better.

Can someone fill me in with this subject? Hopefully this gets though and put on the table for someone to try to come up. Most of the Blu-ray players have access to the internet. So if we have to get software for the text or something. we can update our players.

Well that is just an idea. What does these people in blu-ray think? If they say the blu-ray has better sound and picture. dont forget the caption!

For now I will stikc to my DVD's. My tv isnt a digital or has any HDMI ports. But everything works just fine.

[Josh Z]

So, what is the status of this? Today I received Blood: The Last Vampire from Sony. Movie is mostly in English with a handful of scenes in Japanese. Subtitles are still below the picture.

[BoneMan]

I watch Angels & Demons a couple of weeks ago (its been out in Australia for quite a while) and the movie was pretty much useless due to the amount of sub-titles used. It was the usual sony mess - half in the movie and half in the black bar. This would have been a sure buy for me if it wasn't for the sub-title position (I have a CIH system).

I wish they would atleast specify on the back cover where the sub-titles are positioned!!

[Southpaw]

Angels & Demons has subs in the letterbox area.
Godzilla blu-ray has subs in the letterbox area.

Get them above the lower black bar please!