Jurassic Park Collection 4K UHD (1993-2015)

[anand-venigalla]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Standard Blu-ray's REC709 has a habit of "turning up" the teal & orange.

I've seen quite a few films now on 4K UHD where it's toned down as you said - well it actually was more like that theatrically too. The expanded REC2020 color range of 4K UHD brings out the original intended grade.

Basically, Crystal Skull UHD is more like the theatrical grade than the old BD grade?

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Standard Blu-ray's REC709 has a habit of "turning up" the teal & orange.

I've seen quite a few films now on 4K UHD where it's toned down as you said - well it actually was more like that theatrically too. The expanded REC2020 color range of 4K UHD brings out the original intended grade.

There's some truth to that with the Blu-ray, but it definitely looks like a stylistic change (even if it's not drastic) on the UHD as opposed to the true colors being restrained in the past.

I remember when the Sony UHD of the Fifth Element was seen as more faithful for toning down the golden look seen on the Blu-ray and people thought that the golden look was only there due to limitations of Rec. 709 or a forced "blanket tint" IIRC. I think I may have posted scans from an archival print of the film, but the gold/yellow was far more intense and "blanketed" than what was even on the Blu-ray. Thankfully the UK UHD correctly reinstated this look and is much, much more respectful to the prints although the "tint" or whatever is still a bit more intense on the prints than the UHD which I've found to be commonplace upon actually directly comparing these digital presentations to correctly-projected 35mm prints or archival-level scans of them.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by anand-venigalla

Basically, Crystal Skull UHD is more like the theatrical grade than the old BD grade?

I can't attest to any digital showings but the 35mm prints definitely look more "teal and orange" than the UHD. There was actually just a public screening of one a month or two ago. I urge people to actually go to these showings and see for themselves.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by anand-venigalla

Basically, Crystal Skull UHD is more like the theatrical grade than the old BD grade?

Appears to be a lot more faithful to the theatrical. Area 51 for example was stylized orange/gold but it's overwhelming on standard BD.

Star Trek Into Darkness is another film blanketed in teal on Blu-ray that is much more neutral on UHD and (again) like the theatrical presentations.

[Jedihunter]

Anyone checkout JP3 yet? I noticed some weird macroblocking when Mr Kirby was walking on the crane to get the Spino's attention for a few frames. I dont remember that being an issue with the orignal disc. I'll check my disc and see if there's something that needs to be cleaned, but it didnt skip or freeze. So I wanted to mention it in case others have spotted it.

Cleaned it and yep its still there. Occurs around 1 hour 16 minutes and 4 seconds.

Had a friend test his and yep same freaking thing.

[Jedihunter]

Originally Posted by Jedihunter

Anyone checkout JP3 yet? I noticed some weird macroblocking when Mr Kirby was walking on the crane to get the Spino's attention for a few frames. I dont remember that being an issue with the orignal disc. I'll check my disc and see if there's something that needs to be cleaned, but it didnt skip or freeze. So I wanted to mention it in case others have spotted it.

Cleaned it and yep its still there. Occurs around 1 hour 16 minutes and 4 seconds.

Had a friend test his and yep same freaking thing.

[https://i.imgur.com/wxKfF2L.jpeg

[accountsareapain]

Just checked and yes, there are 7 pixelated frames from 1:16:04.435 to 1:16:04.685 on JPIII, new US disc.

[The Rider]

Originally Posted by PondaBaba

Spoilered for being a little off topic:

[Show spoiler]Was it not established (by deduction, rather than officially confirmed) that the initial FotR EE BD grade was done in error in virtue of the tint (at least apparently - not witnessed it myself) switching off mid end credits? Returning white to actual white? I didn’t think this would continue to be a legit example since reading that. A more recent example that I came across and was curious re: the discussion on was the reissue of KL’s rerelease/reissue of the Big Easy. Looked artificially tealed up to the max from the caps to me, but then people in the thread were claiming it’s how it would have originally looked on film back on release. I’m no expert but I do watch a fair amount of stuff on film (both knackered old release prints

[Show spoiler]-to get vaguely on topic - inc. JP a couple of years ago-

and new prints of old and new releases and i don’t ever remember a film on film looking as teal as is shown in those big easy caps

With regard to FotR EE BD, the situation is that there was no completed DI. The coloring was still produced photochemically. For the EE Blu-ray Disc, Peter Jackson and his team completed the 2K DI, but his colour grading was not based on The Two Towers and The Return of the King, but on the Hobbit films he was working on at the time. Jackson also didn't work with the 35 mm prints from FotR as a reference.

FotR EE BD is therefore revisionist, quite clearly.

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I won't be that guy who claims to precisely remember what film prints looked like 40+ years ago, but I saw Raiders about a dozen times between 1981-1982. Of course, had it on other formats leading up to seeing it on IMAX in 2011 (same master from BD). Immediately, I was struck with how odd the yellowish opening looked when the Paramount logo transformed into the mountain and the entire opening sequence. I had never seen that before, and it was global tint was removed for the UHD. There were some other color oddities as well that were only on the BD and not on the UHD. The UHD looks far superior which its more earthy tone look which I think resembles more of the original look which admittingly is a moving target for reasons disussed before, but that BD color timing was something of another kind just like its ridiculously boosted bass that was also remedied for the UHD. That BD was just flawed all of the way around. I have seen a 35mm scan where the idol is golden for what it's worth and it looks nothing like the BD...and oh how I loved the optical 2.0 track.

Thanks for your explanations, very interesting.
I had once read that Raisers of the Lost Ark had a certain dust look on the 35 mm prints, the DVDs (and VHS?) neutralised this look completely. My guess is that they tried to bring back that dust look for the Blu-ray Disc, but overdid it. similar to Jurassic Park 3D. In contrast to Jurassic Park, however, the studio then fine-tuned the color grading for the Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc and did not simply adopt the old false grading. Paramount probably took a similar approach with Top Gun. With The Godfather, however, the Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc is wrong and the Blu-ray Disc had the correct color grading.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...169292&i=0&l=0

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...169261&i=0&l=0

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Yeah, sure as hell isn't the 35MM prints I saw. What I saw was bleached, colorless, and not very sharp. In other words, what's on the 4K. But even dirtier and a lot granier too.

Then the 35 mm prints you saw back then were probably faulty. This can happen, not all 35 mm prints are identical.

For one thing, many of the scene images correspond in color to the images on the 35 mm prints.

Secondly, it is unlikely that the Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc of JP III has the correct color grading if Universal already restored JP and Waterworld incorrectly.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by accountsareapain

Just checked and yes, there are 7 pixelated frames from 1:16:04.435 to 1:16:04.685 on JPIII, new US disc.

Oh FFS. If the Euro discs are materially different encodes then hopefully they'll have bypassed that crap.

[The Rider]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

Probably the Jaws and Schindler's List UHDs.



I'd say both the Blu-ray and the UHD are in the same ballpark but home video historically has never been about completely matching the exact look of any print; the vast majority of older masters and new iterations based off of them probably don't even resemble the prints for the same films (I can't think of one magenta-pushed master that resembled an original print I've seen). Home video is inherently revisionist and it's a completely different medium so differences are kind of inevitable even if it's not intentional "revisionism"; stuff like adjusting color/brightness inconsistencies (that are present on the prints) from shot-to-shot has been commonplace since VHS for an example of routine and widely-accepted revisionism.



Sadly, I think a lot more than only half of them are wildly inaccurate due to the reasons you noted. I think these projects are done out of love, but I hate to see people waste so much time and money ultimately creating a novelty experience as opposed to even beginning to reach the quality and accuracy of 35mm print scans seen in film archives. If these hobbyists want to produce more faithful results then they should do something like what you did with your print, or actually look into taking courses concerning grading and film. I've known students, who after just lax 1-2 day training sessions, could achieve much better results than what I usually see with these fan scans (and sometimes even grades from labels or major studios in Jurassic Park's case) so that's something that would definitely be worth looking into if one wants to continue doing fan scans.

I've actually seen comments from a film archivist on one of those fan sites though. I remember seeing one where they were stating that the print(s) of Thief in their archive had "teal" similar to the Criterion Blu-ray which was accused of being highly revisionist. If someone in that position is willing to help out then that's invaluable assistance right there because outside of film archives, you're not seeing the original photochemical look or a decent representation of it for the majority of films.

But there are definitely differences between the Blu-ray Disc and the Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Especially at the beginning in the jungle, the Blu-ray is brighter and browner, while the Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc is darker and slightly greener.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...169261&i=0&l=0

The DVD is said to have been too cool and this dust look seems to have been missing.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...169292&i=0&l=0

I would also say that, despite the different technology, it is quite possible to get roughly the look of the 35 mm prints in home video if the studios and restoration companies make an effort.

What do you think of Hook?

[OSHAN]

Is this still a JP thread?

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by OSHAN

Is this still a JP thread?

You want me to get things back on track? Consider it done!

I think Jurassic Park actor Sam Neill is great in John Carpenter's In the Mouth of Madness. How does everybody feel about that?

[Jedihunter]

Originally Posted by OSHAN

Is this still a JP thread?

Yep, just spotted an fairly big issue imo with JP3's new disc

[OSHAN]

Originally Posted by Jedihunter

Yep, just spotted an fairly big issue imo with JP3

I picked this up but still have it sealed, just waiting for more impressions, so thanks for the update, even though it is unfortunate.

[Jedihunter]

Originally Posted by OSHAN

I picked this up but still have it sealed, just waiting for more impressions, so thanks for the update, even though it is unfortunate.

I.just hope it gets enough attention that Universal bothers to rectifiy this. Though now im worried that I should go back and watch the other two again with a closer eye. Or see if there are any other moments that jump out like.that shot in JP3. The disc was looking good up until that moment and after it though. I do appreciate the improvements with the discs overall. Even if they aren't massive upgrades.

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by OSHAN

I picked this up but still have it sealed, just waiting for more impressions, so thanks for the update, even though it is unfortunate.

I think the upgrade to JP1 alone makes it worth keeping. We just watched it last night. Color timing still isn't as warm as I would like, but overall it was easily the best JP has looked on home video. The colors were mostly pleasing throughout, the lack of DNR and overt edge enhancement gave it a highly detailed filmic look, and the new Atmos track sounds incredible. Overhead surrounds are way more active than on the DTS-X track.

Hopefully a disc exchange will happen for JP3 if enough noise is made about it.

[lilboyblu]

Originally Posted by Jedihunter

Yep, just spotted an fairly big issue imo with JP3's new disc

Thanks for posting the screenshot. What was the bitrate on that part? By the looks of it, I’d guess probably somewhere in the teens.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by The Rider

For the EE Blu-ray Disc, Peter Jackson and his team completed the 2K DI, but his colour grading was not based on The Two Towers and The Return of the King, but on the Hobbit films he was working on at the time.

And yet it looks nothing like the Hobbitses, even An Unexpected Journey with its slight tint and "dirty" whites.

What exactly is the source of that theory?

[sfmarine]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

You want me to get things back on track? Consider it done!

I think Jurassic Park actor Sam Neill is great in John Carpenter's In the Mouth of Madness. How does everybody feel about that?

Hopefully a future 4K release from Arrow.

[Ben_UK]

Sam Neil is great in most things. I think I first saw him in Dead Calm (which is a great film btw)