UltraHD Blurays and players will start coming by Christmas 2015. Still buying blurays

[Scarriere]

I hope the cost of the discs isn't too high.
I like 3d but don't have many movies because of their added cost.
A 4K tv or more likely, projector, is in my future at some point. But it'll be sooner, rather than later if the movies aren't cost-prohibative for me.

[Blu MacReady]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I wasn't insulting you, just saying. They released "mastered in 4k" editions of Ghostbusters and Spider-Man years ago. It just means they re-scanned the negative in a higher resolution. You're tying it into the new format and making it seem weird, but it's not.

I'm not tying it to the new format, I'm saying what does it say to the average consumer or collector who doesn't know much..

They're tying it as its all 4k...on BD now and then again on something expensive in six months..

My point is it seems like it's shot itself in the foot. Why not just have this 4k on UHD format if that's what it's all about. It's confusing to the average Joe

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by CharlieBarkin

Seems that the majority have clearly spoken....we won't stop buying blu-rays simply because something new is on the horizon. A lot of very specific circumstances will have to happen for 4k to be worth the purchase price. I just got started with Blu-ray...no way I'm pulling a triple dip!

Well if you're a fan of 3D there is certainly no reason to hold off on any Blu-Ray 3D releases since it will likely be years before Ultra HD 3D is available. So movies like Mad Max Fury Road, Age of Ultron, Antman, Inside Out all had 2k DIs and are coming to Blu-Ray 3D and there is no reason to hold out on any of them since the Blu-Ray 3D will be the best looking versions of these movies for many years to come. Also for television releases with the exception of some Netflix series most were very much created with nothing beyond 1080p in mind so TV show sets that make it to Blu-Ray will also be mostly not worth holding out for. The only titles that I can see having any reservations over are titles that were made in 2D only with 4k DIs which will probably be the minority of new titles released on Blu-Ray this fall

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Blu MacReady

I'm not tying it to the new format, I'm saying what does it say to the average consumer or collector who doesn't know much..

They're tying it as its all 4k...on BD now and then again on something expensive in six months..

My point is it seems like it's shot itself in the foot. Why not just have this 4k on UHD format if that's what it's all about. It's confusing to the average Joe

I understand what you're getting at, I've seen some members on this forum ask the question as to if these mastered in 4K titles will still play in their current player or whether they need a new one. I've also seen some members ask whether the current Blu-ray players on the market being advertised with 4K upscaling are the same as the UHD Blu-ray players which are supposedly coming out in several months.

At the end of the day, the manufacturers and studios are causing some level of confusion and it will only be worse with the average consumer. How many times has an average consumer asked "aren't Blu-rays the same thing as DVDs". After all, their DVD player has 2K upscaling so they have a hard time understanding why it's not the same thing.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

At the end of the day, the manufacturers and studios are causing some level of confusion and it will only be worse with the average consumer. How many times has an average consumer asked "aren't Blu-rays the same thing as DVDs". After all, their DVD player has 2K upscaling so they have a hard time understanding why it's not the same thing.

Well Ultra HD Blu-Ray will never appeal to these people anyway. I wonder how many fail to plug their movies in and then wonder why they don't have power

[42041]

Originally Posted by Blu MacReady

I'm not tying it to the new format, I'm saying what does it say to the average consumer or collector who doesn't know much..

They're tying it as its all 4k...on BD now and then again on something expensive in six months..

My point is it seems like it's shot itself in the foot. Why not just have this 4k on UHD format if that's what it's all about. It's confusing to the average Joe

I think they assumed way too much technical savvy on the consumer's part. Sony's been bungling the marketing side of things horribly, starting with those discs with the big Mastered in 4K banner - there were tons of people even on this forum that thought these were legit 4K discs, which is a pretty reasonable thing to assume if you're not familiar with the ins and outs of film mastering and video technology.

[kristoffer]

I wonder if we will see the Panasonic player announced at CES 2015.
I also hope Oppo shows off a prototype at CES.

[Blu MacReady]

Originally Posted by 42041

I think they assumed way too much technical savvy on the consumer's part. Sony's been bungling the marketing side of things horribly, starting with those discs with the big Mastered in 4K banner - there were tons of people even on this forum that thought these were legit 4K discs, which is a pretty reasonable thing to assume if you're not familiar with the ins and outs of film mastering and video technology.

This is why I raised it in this thread, as we are discussing how this format will fair, pros cons etc.

I've said I'm not into the tech side, bit rates, EE, DNR. I understand enough for me. I like what I like and really enjoy collecting my favourite films and the Blu Ray format.
I enjoy a lot of SF discs cause for me it's some of my faves from 80s-90s looking so clear and clean, more then ever before or then I ever remember. But they get ripped apart (and sometimes rightly so) by posters here who know their stuff. I could if I wanted spend more time absorbing their info and finding it myself. I fear this would just lead to me hating some of my purchases and being disappointed in what I'm currently enjoying. I can also see what they see sometimes or understand their point and see it second viewing. But I don't dwell on these for sake of enjoyment.

Ignorance is bliss...sometimes.

And that brings me back to the new upcoming format and it's chance of survival. Aside from the decrease of hard copy ownership and how DVD still out sells a format which is already much better, it's as you say and what I originally posted. The studios themselves make it confusing.

I find it interesting to see what others have thought about UHD4k. It will be an improvement, of course. But these remastered series and I'll assume other labels will bring more out as they get hold of 4k equipment (not tech savvy remember), they like to repackage, resell and taunt he collector. I think the remastered in 4k banner or advertising for current format in 4k, points towards a self imposed f' cup. They may have been around a little while and although not the UHD that's coming, this must dent it's potential as a lot will think this is good enough or due to prices choose to stick as studios are selling it as 4k already.

Just my thoughts that's all.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

I wonder if we will see the Panasonic player announced at CES 2015.
I also hope Oppo shows off a prototype at CES.

Oppo is targeting late 2016/early 2017. They never are one of the first companies to release a new technology.

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Oppo is targeting late 2016/early 2017. They never are one of the first companies to release a new technology.

Yep, very true. I think they've stated already that they wouldn't have a player until mid to late 2016, possibly early 2017.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

I've got no intention of getting into 4K myself. But I have to say, I find these initial releases perplexing.

You've got the very first releases of this new format which for all this talk of additional benefits like color, etc., is still going to be widely understood to be 4K resolution. And only one of the titles will be in actual 4K?

Is it just me, or is that a needless fumble out of the front gate? Wouldn't you want your first titles to showcase the entirety of what the new format is about?

In any case, I'm incredibly dubious about this format making headway if they're pushing color range and such over resolution. If you guys thought Blu-ray was an uphill battle, that's nothing compared to this.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by 42041

I think they assumed way too much technical savvy on the consumer's part. Sony's been bungling the marketing side of things horribly, starting with those discs with the big Mastered in 4K banner - there were tons of people even on this forum that thought these were legit 4K discs, which is a pretty reasonable thing to assume if you're not familiar with the ins and outs of film mastering and video technology.

Sony have indeed been at the root of this, I complained to the Advertising Standards Agency over here about how they were initially marketing the Mi4K discs as pseudo-4K rather than 1080p, and even though they changed the wording on the next run of in-store POS it did a fat lot of good. They released a 4K TV and alongside it was a "4K Blu-ray player" (upscaler) and "4K Blu-ray Discs" (1080p but mastered in 4K) and that was it in consumer's minds.

Even though they were the ones who were mostly doing this 4K mastering behind the scenes (and even mentioning it on packaging) for years it never caused as much consumer confusion as it did until they started producing actual branded 'Mastered in 4K' product. Typical bloody Sony, they couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

I've got no intention of getting into 4K myself. But I have to say, I find these initial releases perplexing.

You've got the very first releases of this new format which for all this talk of additional benefits like color, etc., is still going to be widely understood to be 4K resolution. And only one of the titles will be in actual 4K?

Is it just me, or is that a needless fumble out of the front gate? Wouldn't you want your first titles to showcase the entirety of what the new format is about?

In any case, I'm incredibly dubious about this format making headway if they're pushing color range and such over resolution. If you guys thought Blu-ray was an uphill battle, that's nothing compared to this.

Like others have been saying, almost all new released movies are finished in 2K. There are no signs this is going to change real soon at least to any significant degree. So in essence, these new releases will be around the same resolution at Blu-ray (not counting catalog titles sourced from 35mm).

So, you're left with the wider P3 color gamut. But how much more noticeable is that going to be? I think it will be relatively slight. I commented in the Indiana Jones thread how the Blu-ray colors looked in comparison to the 2K DCP viewing I saw of it - immediately looking at certain scenes while watching the BD after the movie. Some slight improvement, but not earth shattering.

Then the HDR factor. I don't have what to think of HDR yet because I have not to see it, but it probably offers the single greatest potential improvement over BD, but we'll see.

After that, you've got better compression with 10 bit should help tighten up things a bit....

But as you can see, the format it really going to be a struggle to offer up THAT much of a better image IMO. Maybe these things will stand out more than it seems right now especially combined, but it will not be an easy sell.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

I've got no intention of getting into 4K myself. But I have to say, I find these initial releases perplexing.

You've got the very first releases of this new format which for all this talk of additional benefits like color, etc., is still going to be widely understood to be 4K resolution. And only one of the titles will be in actual 4K?

Is it just me, or is that a needless fumble out of the front gate? Wouldn't you want your first titles to showcase the entirety of what the new format is about?

In any case, I'm incredibly dubious about this format making headway if they're pushing color range and such over resolution. If you guys thought Blu-ray was an uphill battle, that's nothing compared to this.

What's doubly unnerving is that the company with the biggest share of true 4K content has been very downbeat about physical media in general and has remained spectacularly tight-lipped about UHD BD specifically, all while pimping out their 4K content via online platforms. That company would be Sony...

[StingingVelvet]

I definitely agree they have contributed to the confusion some have. I think that's more on months of "4k disc" talk though. I think making it clear a new master was sourced from a 4k scan is a good idea. "Mastered in 4k" is fine, and good to know. Tying a format name to resolution is not, which is why they eventually went with "Ultra HD" anyway.

Anyway I was more responding to "why release these 4k masters now?" The answer is: UHD might never matter anyway, and why not?

[amoergosum]

"Mastered in 4k - presented in 1080p" = no confusion

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I definitely agree they have contributed to the confusion some have. I think that's more on months of "4k disc" talk though. I think making it clear a new master was sourced from a 4k scan is a good idea. "Mastered in 4k" is fine, and good to know. Tying a format name to resolution is not, which is why they eventually went with "Ultra HD" anyway.

Anyway I was more responding to "why release these 4k masters now?" The answer is: UHD might never matter anyway, and why not?

Sure, put a note on the back, but making the 4K part into the marketing cornerstone of an actual 1080p product range was only ever going to be a major source of confusion. And yes, UHD was decided upon as being a name which isn't resolution specific, but if the Fox cover for UHD Kingsman is correct then they've started using the 4K branding anyway, and for a movie which was finished at 2K. Fox are continuing Sony's good work.

[HeavyHitter]

People were confused with upscaling DVD players when they came out too.

Especially with the marketing that you could actually watch your DVDs as "HD" or "near HD".

Then HD DVD and Blu-ray were coming out and some people were asking, "I thought I was already watching my DVDs as HD."

[StingingVelvet]

*brain explodes*

The idea we're looking for a 4k format when most new movies are finished in 2k just seems more and more silly to me in general. I don't hope it fails or anything, but damn...

[42041]

I wish they'd just stop it with the whole 4K nomenclature entirely QHD is not 4k just like 1080p is not 2K.