Unforgiven 4K UHD (1992)

[philochs]

Originally Posted by garyd97

I can't find this in store anywhere. I have been to Best Buy, Walmart, Target, and Fry's since Tuesday. It is ridiculous you can't even buy a movie you want on release date. It is no wonder the format isn't catching on.

Man, that's some bad luck. I feel bad for you. Was a new Blu-ray that hard to come by a year into the format? I don't remember, but it seems like it probably was. Why do you say UHD BD isn't catching on, I've read the format has been a resounding success, sales wise. Maybe you can't find a disk specifically because the format is catching on better than expected. I still have faith UHD Blu-ray will go mainstream by 2021. Anyway, good luck, I hope you find your copy soon.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by garyd97

I can't find this in store anywhere. I have been to Best Buy, Walmart, Target, and Fry's since Tuesday. It is ridiculous you can't even buy a movie you want on release date. It is no wonder the format isn't catching on.

Retail stores got limited copies compared to newer titles.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by philochs

Seriously, who loves UHD Blu-ray but isn't excited about improved color volume mapping, 4:2:2 subsampling, and 12-bit color depth encodes? Surely, the combination of technologies that Dolby Vision will bring to UHD Blu-ray will be strikingly beautiful, and a genuine uptick in picture quality.

'You can always tell when a man's well-informed. His views are pretty much like yours.' - Bob Hope

And if it isn't? What then? There's gonna be a lot of confirmation bias flying around anyway and it won't help that it'll basically be LG OLEDs and shitty Hisense LCDs on one side with high-end Sony LCDs on the other in terms of DV-enabled sets, all with varying strengths and weaknesses. If I decide to keep my ZD9 then it's gonna be very interesting to see how HDR10 stacks up against DV.

[philochs]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And if it isn't? What then? There's gonna be a lot of confirmation bias flying around anyway and it won't help that it'll basically be LG OLEDs and shitty Hisense LCDs on one side with high-end Sony LCDs on the other in terms of DV-enabled sets, all with varying strengths and weaknesses. If I decide to keep my ZD9 then it's gonna be very interesting to see how HDR10 stacks up against DV.

Forget about the color volume tone mapping completely for a moment, 4:2:2 chroma subsampling has never been seen on a home video format before. It's not on VUDU streaming Dolby Vision titles. Dolby Vision on disk is more premium than DV streaming. Improved color saturation via less chroma compression is a guaranteed uptick in PQ by itself alone. It means every Dolby Vision disk will have superior color reproduction that is closer to the 4:4:4 source workflow material, and 12-bit color depth is closer to the workflow copy as well. So it isn't a 'what if' situation. The Revenant is an example of a UHD Blu-ray that suffers from minor color banding throughout the film. I'd love for a Dolby Vision version to come out on disk that would fix that and boost the color saturation too.

[Geoff D]

That's the sort of thing which plays well on test patterns and PC inputs, but for real world viewing? I've got some 4:2:2 clips of football and can I tell them apart from 4:2:0? Can I heck. Again, it's gonna be interesting to see how that bears out.

[vincentric]

It's gonna be interesting for sure, Geoff. Am more interested in the 12 bit part of DV though. On my oled, along with the near black and bright artifacting, am seeing more banding during hdr10 as well. Curious to see if DV can help resolve that even on 10 bit paneling.

[philochs]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's the sort of thing which plays well on test patterns and PC inputs, but for real world viewing? I've got some 4:2:2 clips of football and can I tell them apart from 4:2:0? Can I heck. Again, it's gonna be interesting to see how that bears out.

Lots of things contribute to PQ of course. Dolby Vision is better than HDR10 in 3 key ways. By themselves they may each be subtle, but in tandem they will be more impressive. No point in arguing if anyone will be able to tell the difference on a high nit screen. I say you will easily, you say maybe not. We'll have this settled soon after the first disks launch, so I refuse to argue about it further until then. Not to be rude, but just because it seems pointless.

Calling soccer 'football' and then saying 'can I heck' lol, I love colloquial British phrases, next you might even accuse me of 'taking the piss'. I'm not doing that, I swear, I wouldn't even know where to put it. Man, I can't believe you're still awake at this ungodly hour. I really just like to go to England and have afternoon tea and then hang out at the American Bar at the Savoy after catching a show. I'm like a 90 year-old that way. It's my love of old Hollywood that will always lure me to the Savoy. Too bad it's foreign owned now. Too much oil money floating around in the world market. If you ask me, England shouldn't sell off any of it's treasures to the highest bidder, the gov should have prevented it, brexit style.

I don't care if I ever go back to mainland Western Europe, I have mixed feelings, but I'll always return to the UK, to me, it's some of the best Europe has to offer. I've been all over England and I could easily kill a weekend in Liverpool or the Lake District. It never gets old, especially when the weather is nice. Never been to Swanage, but it looks lovely in pictures. That being said, I can't bring myself to enjoy very much British comedy. I find it for the most part painfully unfunny, with a few exceptions.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Quite the contrary if you've actually read my posts, you knob.

As for the haloing effects people are talking about, could that actually have to do with the individual's panel?

I didn't see any of those effects in the shots provided in the DV version on Vudu.

TheSaltyMan

[Anty1080p]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

How do we know the BD isn't too bright? Why are we assuming the UHD is the one that's "incorrect?" Especially when we haven't seen either one yet?

Originally Posted by philochs

Well, most important is the film's negative. Since the actual film negative has about twice the stops of dynamic range as what a 1080p Blu-ray can show,it is pathetic for any studio to release a UHD disk packaged with a new 1080p remastered disk that could outshine it in even the slightest way. There's no legitimate explanation why it would be darker than the 1080p copy in the same package. The only reason is that they have to optimize it for light or dark scenes, and they went dark on UHD, and bright on the 1080p copy. I'll wait for more reviews to confirm it's a darker overall transfer, but this is my initial assumption per the early reviews.

Yes exactly. The correct brightness (along with every picture aspect really) is impossible to determine or for screens/displays calibrate towards without seeing/knowing how it was/is on the actual negative/print. (Forget director or colorist intention, that's their job, they have to get that right or as intended for viewers first of all.)

For example you're calibrating you're TVs brightness or color level at home, using a Blu-ray movie paused as reference. Calibrating brightness in let's say a dark bedroom you can't know if you're brightness is too low(high) because that thing in the back, in the dark is too visible or not. Calibrating color, you can't know how that blue dress is truly suppose to look, its correct shade.

[MattGuyOR]

So when is the remastered blu-ray coming out? Do I have to buy the UHD to get it?

[DJJez]

Originally Posted by MattGuyOR

So when is the remastered blu-ray coming out? Do I have to buy the UHD to get it?

they will release it in the future by itself maybe but for now only way is to buy the 4k version. its worth it

[legends of beyond]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

TheSaltyMan

You forget that Sea Salt Ice Cream is actually pretty good.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by legends of beyond

You forget that Sea Salt Ice Cream is actually pretty good.

Right.

Dolby Vision is the caramel sea salt gelato.

HDR10 is Kroger brand vanilla.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Right.

Dolby Vision is the caramel sea salt gelato.

HDR10 is Kroger brand vanilla.

Kroger has damn good house brands...

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by Trekkie313

Kroger has damn good house brands...

Well, I didn't say HDR10 itself was bad. Just inferior.

One last thing and then I'll finally leave this be; I went and saw Alien: Covenant tonight at AMC for my first Dolby Cinema experience. Absolutely mind-blowing.

Dolby's HDR format is my favorite visual technology to come along in the last decade.

And, the theatrical experience actually reiterates my point about how silly it is to debate "nits" this early in the consumer panel stage.

Once you see this format in the proper 31-lambert experience, it shows just how for all these panels still need to go before they can take full advantage of this great piece of technology.

With that being said, I will finally, for real, move on from this discussion.

I'm going to buy the UHD Blu-Ray for Unforgiven, give it a watch, and then compare to the Vudu version to see what differences I noticed.

[d514]

Originally Posted by philochs

Some of the main improvements that Dolby Vision on disk will definitely include over HDR10, that even everyone with a high nit HDR tv will visibly benefit from, are 12-bit color depth and 4:2:2 chroma subsampling.

12-bit color depth means absolutely no color banding, ever. HDR10 is 10-bit, and hence is going to sometimes cause minor banding. The 12-bits encoded in the disk will benefit current panels because 12-bit depth is above the threshold, and prevents any color banding, even when viewing on a 10-bit panel.

I don't think a 12bit signal on a 10bit display is better that a 10 bit signal in general. The important question is: How was the 10bit signal on the usual HDR10 disc created? If it was created from a 12bit signal the HDR10 signal can have all the benefits a DV 12bit signal has - on a 10bit display. I highly doubt the downsampling/dithering on a consumer TV does a better job than the equipment in a professional studio.

[tenia]

In the end, if someone only wants the new Blu-ray included with the UHD, is it an interesting upgrade over the previous BD ?

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

You mean, aside from the ones that have already happened, or any more like those that are done in the future... ?

It's not true 4K. A movie like The Martian hasn't been rebuilt in 4K, only the non-SFX shots haven't been downgraded to 2K anymore, but back to 4K, but all the SFX shots that were generated in 2K still are 2K (thus upscaled for the UHD).

That's why Fox's response on this one still was laughed at : because they were missing the point (and The Martian also is a SFX-heavy movie so the amount of shots that could be put back to native 4K probably remained quite low).

If tomorrow, movies like Interstellar, or Pixar's or Disney's stuff want to be released in true 4K, it means re-do all the SFX in native 4K, while it already needed an incredible amount of computer power and time to do them at 2K.

Actually, I'm not even sure this can be done at all currently without inflating in an un-manageable way the post-production time and the resources involved.

IIRC, there only are a handful of movies produced within a full real-4K workflow, most notably Fincher's Gone Girl. Any other movie still have most of its SFX generated in 2K (including Deadpool, which only have some SFX generated in 4K).

[Geoff D]

Interstellar's VFX was done at 5.6K for the most part. IMAX, baby!!!

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by MattGuyOR

So when is the remastered blu-ray coming out? Do I have to buy the UHD to get it?

Just be patient. It'll be out later in the year.

[Khronikos]

IDK the bluray.com review seems to mention this title was held in high regard and looked after by multiple teams of authority including Clint's people. I think I will honestly trust them over random forum posters and random technology used by said posters.

But you never know....