Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

You are totally wrong. Do you think Apple would give you a burn disc option on their iTunes if they didn't allow it? Don't you think they would have to remove that function if it was Piracy? Why isn't the music industry all over this? Are they not aware of this little function???

Making rips of CDs you own is perfectly legal. Keeping rips of CDs you no longer own is piracy. It's pretty much the most basic form of piracy: having a copy of something you don't own.

I own all of my music on CD. I also have copies of all of my CDs on my PC and my phone. This is legal (fair use). If I were to sell all of my CDs then the copies would be illegal.

The rip disc and burn disc options in themselves are not piracy if they are used to make copies of your own possessions for personal use. But if you have copies of things you no longer possess it is piracy.

[alchav21]

Well you guys are all over the place, but it looks like there are more Physical people here. The main concern are Ownership and Picture Quality, and granted Physical has better PQ. Like I have said it's all Digital now, and BitRate is the main difference and HDX is very close. You guys do know that UHD Blu-rays will be the last Physical Disc, and right now UHD Digital is beating out UHD Blu-rays. The only true way to tell the difference in HDX from Physical is with the best equipment.

I'd also like to know from the Posters here if the average HDTV is 55" or over, I would bet it's much lower. The other thing is that this Tread is right up there with InstaWatch....All HD Digital!

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

You are totally wrong. Do you think Apple would give you a burn disc option on their iTunes if they didn't allow it? Don't you think they would have to remove that function if it was Piracy? Why isn't the music industry all over this? Are they not aware of this little function???

You guys are taking this Physical ownership way too far, and are way out there in Left field, that you are coming up with rubbish excuses and just nonsense explanations how it will all disappear and you will never be able to watch your favourite movie ever again... lol

It still is considered piracy believe it or not. You need to still own the CD for it to be fair use.

Also you should watch True Lies tonight. I can at least watch my DVD. Good luck finding in on a steaming service. Nobody can take my DVD like they take the rights to rent a movie.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

It still is considered piracy believe it or not. You need to still own the CD for it to be fair use.

Also you should watch True Lies tonight. I can at least watch my DVD. Good luck finding in on a steaming service. Nobody can take my DVD like they take the rights to rent a movie.

I hope you are not watching it on a a Blu-ray player, but a DVD player as it was intended for.

How can I get a free CD or DVD at the Public Library? Is that not Piracy??

That's how insane some your justifications are starting to sound like.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well you guys are all over the place, but it looks like there are more Physical people here. The main concern are Ownership and Picture Quality, and granted Physical has better PQ. Like I have said it's all Digital now, and BitRate is the main difference and HDX is very close. You guys do know that UHD Blu-rays will be the last Physical Disc, and right now UHD Digital is beating out UHD Blu-rays. The only true way to tell the difference in HDX from Physical is with the best equipment.

I'd also like to know from the Posters here if the average HDTV is 55" or over, I would bet it's much lower. The other thing is that this Tread is right up there with InstaWatch....All HD Digital!

It's not all digital now. You are making blanket statements. DVD and Blu Ray are still a massive part of home entertainment. You also said cinema is dead. It's nowhere near dead.

Also, NOBODY knows if UHD will be the last physical format. You are just being silly IMO. UHD Digital is beating out disc? WTF? It's been around much longer. See if that's the case one year from now.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

It still is considered piracy believe it or not. You need to still own the CD for it to be fair use.

Also you should watch True Lies tonight. I can at least watch my DVD. Good luck finding in on a steaming service. Nobody can take my DVD like they take the rights to rent a movie.

In fact it is illegal in the UK to rip a CD or DVD even for personal back up.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

In fact it is illegal in the UK to rip a CD or DVD even for personal back up.

The UK is super strict with that stuff. As long as the disc is for you and you have the original copy fair use works well.

[socal9]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So what you are saying is convenience is more important to you than the future of cinema and home cinema? Can't be that big a film fan.

Oh brother.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

I hope you are not watching it on a a Blu-ray player, but a DVD player as it was intended for.

This makes absolutely no sense. Blu-Ray players as DESIGNED to also play DVDs.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

I hope you are not watching it on a a Blu-ray player, but a DVD player as it was intended for.

How can I get a free CD or DVD at the Public Library? Is that not Piracy??

That's how insane some your justifications are starting to sound like.

Why does the player matter? You ignored the fact that I can watch True Lies on my old fashioned disc while with streaming you can't watch True Lies even if you want to. For all intents and purposes the movie doesn't exist anymore for you.

Yeah not the same thing. Fair use includes lending YOUR copy of a CD or movie. It does not include making a burned copy and lending that out or selling your original copy. There isn't any insane justification here. These are facts and facts are indisputable.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by socal9

Oh brother.

To support a format that is going to disrupt and possibly destroy home cinema? You don't see that?

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by socal9

Oh brother.

[socal9]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So what you are saying is convenience is more important to you than the future of cinema and home cinema? Can't be that big a film fan.

This was your full quote. So what you are saying is that if a person buys a digital format and not a blu ray disc, that person can't be that big a film fan? I guess a student who watch movies on their laptop can't be that big of a film fan. A person who does not have a large income and still purchases DVDs can't be that big of a film fan.

When I was younger, I was really into audio equipment. Used to go to the high end audio stores to check out all the latest gear. You would find people in there who were always into the latest thing and constantly upgrading. Trouble was that they were more interested in the equipment rather than the music.

I've watched Casablanca on a 15 inch computer screen and was absolutely captivated. I've seen trash that they try to pass off as a movie on large screen displays with high end surround sound systems and I couldn't wait for the darn thing to end. Obviously the best would be to have a great movie on a great delivery system but not everyone can afford that. To say that if a person buys a movie on anything but the media that you promote means they "Can't be that big a film fan" is rather snobbish, don't you think?

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by socal9

This was your full quote. So what you are saying is that if a person buys a digital format and not a blu ray disc, that person can't be that big a film fan? I guess a student who watch movies on their laptop can't be that big of a film fan. A person who does not have a large income and still purchases DVDs can't be that big of a film fan.

When I was younger, I was really into audio equipment. Used to go to the high end audio stores to check out all the latest gear. You would find people in there who were always into the latest thing and constantly upgrading. Trouble was that they were more interested in the equipment rather than the music.

I've watched Casablanca on a 15 inch computer screen and was absolutely captivated. I've seen trash that they try to pass off as a movie on large screen displays with high end surround sound systems and I couldn't wait for the darn thing to end. Obviously the best would be to have a great movie on a great delivery system but not everyone can afford that. To say that if a person buys a movie on anything but the media that you promote means they "Can't be that big a film fan" is rather snobbish, don't you think?

Yes you can be a fan of a film and watch it on what you want.............but many of these films are being given restorations that when streamed are wasted, so a true fan of film would I am sure only want to see this on the best possible format, other wise all the hard work that goes into the restoration, the extras, the interviews, the packaging, etc, would in most cases be wasted.

These days it does not cost that much to have a system TV and BR player that can in most cases play movies on BR that will far exceed the streamed equivalent. Also those advocating the streaming services have already it seems the ability to play physical media, so your argument is getting weaker all the time.

We as far as I can see are posting on a forum where Blu Ray and physical media are our taste, I am sure there are forums where discussion of a particular film (not the PQ etc) is the main topic.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So what you are saying is convenience is more important to you than the future of cinema and home cinema? Can't be that big a film fan.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Your reading comprehension skills are outstanding. Like I said in my previous post, I don't care about the future of the film industry. May it all come crashing down tomorrow for all I care.

Thanks for "hearing me out." You're great at keeping this discussion open-minded and not at all a domain for bullying people who have different interests.

In all seriousness, you're acting like I have to swear an oath to physical media, and if I break that oath at all, I never deserved to be a film fan in the first place. In reality, which is where I live, people are allowed to evolve and change, while still holding onto their ideals.

I love supporting my favorite industry. I cringe whenever I hear of others streaming movies illegally. What I'm doing is streaming legally. I have purchased and/or redeemed the digital copies in my collection. Some of my digital copies are HD versions of movies I have on DVD. Some are HD/UHD versions of movies I have on Blu-ray. Others are in fact the only version I own of that movie (and always at least in HD).

I understand that you and others here feel that embracing digital (even a teeny tiny bit) will bring about the end of physical media. I know that about you. I appreciate your perspective on the matter. Your delivery methods are less than desirable, though.

How do you define a film fan?

You do know that some very big film fans don't even collect Blu-rays, right? Some collect DVDs! Some just watch Turner Classic Movies 24/7. Yes, some are like us and they collect Blu-rays. Some are in a class above you perhaps and now collect UHD Blu-rays and/or 3D Blu-rays. I belong to that camp too. I collect movie in many formats. I'd venture to guess that I support the industry more than you do. Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you spend heaps of money on movies like I do.

[knight17]

End of the day, studios will love to impose all kinds of restrictions on you if it was tangible for them to do so.

Case in point - most of the ultraviolet and other digital codes come with expiry dates, ps3 games use to come with one time online codes to try and discourage you from selling or buying disc second hand. Sony for instance wants full access to your UV library and took about a half hour wrangling on its site simply to enter UV codes for the MIB trilogy. For the same boxset, I can effortlessly watch it whenever I want, wherever I want and on whatever blu ray device I deem fit.

End of the day I would say the convenience itself can be a bit misleading. Take all the people who have ps3 discs for instance. Sony is offering many a game on it's Playstation Now service but can't bother to support existing ps3 owners on the PS4.

Similar scenario with digital. If the going is good then it is fine but let us say you run into some issues, such as some movies missing, unable to download or stream a handful and then you will run into more issues than the initial so called convenience is worth it.

Try and retain some control and don't forget - customer is the king.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

To support a format that is going to disrupt and possibly destroy home cinema? You don't see that?

It's all a matter of perspective. I understand that you believe that digital will destroy home cinema. alchav21 looks at it from the perspective that all modern formats are digital, and technically he's right. Blu-ray is still digital (not analog like VHS), even if it's of a much higher file size than Digital HD. It's also a smaller file size than that of UHD Blu-ray. And all are a much smaller file size than that of the DCP used for digital cinemas. Yes, it's almost all digital these days. Just different levels of quality.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by knight17

Case in point - most of the ultraviolet and other digital codes come with expiry dates, ps3 games use to come with one time online codes to try and discourage you from selling or buying disc second hand. Sony for instance wants full access to your UV library and took about a half hour wrangling on its site simply to enter UV codes for the MIB trilogy. For the same boxset, I can effortlessly watch it whenever I want, wherever I want and on whatever blu ray device I deem fit.

Oh yeah, don't get me started on the issues with redeeming codes.

Last year was when I really started redeeming them. It was a headache and a half. Though most all of them were UV, it seemed like the process of getting the accounts set up (linking up Vudu and UV, etc.) was a pain and a half, and then the way that the copy is actually redeemed varies from one studio to another, with some of them being absurdly complicated as you described. I wanted to bang my head against the wall at one point!

I guess the only good part about that is maybe people who are just "dipping their toe into the water" of digital by trying to redeem codes might get discouraged over the complications involved with it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Your reading comprehension skills are outstanding. Like I said in my previous post, I don't care about the future of the film industry. May it all come crashing down tomorrow for all I care.

Thanks for "hearing me out." You're great at keeping this discussion open-minded and not at all a domain for bullying people who have different interests.

In all seriousness, you're acting like I have to swear an oath to physical media, and if I break that oath at all, I never deserved to be a film fan in the first place. In reality, which is where I live, people are allowed to evolve and change, while still holding onto their ideals.

I love supporting my favorite industry. I cringe whenever I hear of others streaming movies illegally. What I'm doing is streaming legally. I have purchased and/or redeemed the digital copies in my collection. Some of my digital copies are HD versions of movies I have on DVD. Some are HD/UHD versions of movies I have on Blu-ray. Others are in fact the only version I own of that movie (and always at least in HD).

I understand that you and others here feel that embracing digital (even a teeny tiny bit) will bring about the end of physical media. I know that about you. I appreciate your perspective on the matter. Your delivery methods are less than desirable, though.

How do you define a film fan?

You do know that some very big film fans don't even collect Blu-rays, right? Some collect DVDs! Some just watch Turner Classic Movies 24/7. Yes, some are like us and they collect Blu-rays. Some are in a class above you perhaps and now collect UHD Blu-rays and/or 3D Blu-rays. I belong to that camp too. I collect movie in many formats. I'd venture to guess that I support the industry more than you do. Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you spend heaps of money on movies like I do.

It goes deeper than that. I see Digital as the enemy. The format that will bring down the big screen experience at home and in the cinema. Devastating if Ithappens.

Having said all that, I need to apologise to you. You didn't deserve such a hostile post. I get too wound up about these issues. You have been polite and I apologise again.

[knight17]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Oh yeah, don't get me started on the issues with redeeming codes.

Last year was when I really started redeeming them. It was a headache and a half. Though most all of them were UV, it seemed like the process of getting the accounts set up (linking up Vudu and UV, etc.) was a pain and a half, and then the way that the copy is actually redeemed varies from one studio to another, with some of them being absurdly complicated as you described. I wanted to bang my head against the wall at one point!

I guess the only good part about that is maybe people who are just "dipping their toe into the water" of digital by trying to redeem codes might get discouraged over the complications involved with it.

Better to get discouraged at the very beginning than to see all of their collection go down the drain eventually (There is even a part in the UV terms and conditions that state a fee might me charged in the future for simply accessing your collection from the cloud).

We can try to warn as many as we can but you can't prevent the headstrong from learning the consequences first hand.