Heat (1995) (Director's Definitive Edition)

[tama]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Looks more like unnaturally boosted colors than true saturation. The mountains in the background are now teal, as well as all the whites in the shot. Looks terrible. At least the old release looks correct and natural.

No it doesn't Just looking at the TV set colors in the background shows it.

https://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a...7&l=1&i=1&go=1

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by tama

No it doesn't Just looking at the TV set colors in the background shows it.

https://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a...7&l=1&i=1&go=1

Yeah, thats ONE shot. How about looking at the other 15 where all the whites are now teal? Looks ridiculous and is 100% revisionist. Never looked this way theatrically.

I particularly love this vomit blue-green pavement, which should be gray... you know, like in the previous edition with correct colors.

https://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d...7&i=11&l=1&a=1

[tama]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Yeah, thats ONE shot. How about looking at the other 15 where all the whites are now teal? Looks ridiculous and is 100% revisionist. Never looked this way theatrically.

I particularly love this vomit blue-green pavement, which should be gray.

https://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d...7&i=11&l=1&a=1

https://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a...9&l=1&i=3&go=1

I'm sure Val Kilmer always looks this pasty and pale. I live not far from the ocean and what I see here in this cap looks a lot like what I see in the real world on a clear day.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by OutOfBoose

I suppose it's done to get rid of the frame border at the bottom:
https://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?g...94896&i=10&l=0

Yikes, I knew I wasn't seeing things with the compression on this disc, just look at the background behind Val, it's a blocky mess on the new edition:

https://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a...&l=0&i=10&go=1

As for the colour, I don't mind the subtle green shift as it's the sort of thing that the eye adjusts to fairly quickly, and the blue night scenes are still gloriously blue. But damn, Fox ****ed the compression on this IMO. Why is it that companies are spending so much on restoring these things in 4K but are skimping at the final hurdle? It's cruelly ironic that the mastering of the source has improved in leaps and bounds but the art of compression has gone down the toilet.

[OutOfBoose]

^Try PNG, I don't see any blocking there. But there are compression artifacts in other places. I personally stopped getting bothered by compression artifacts. Otherwise I wouldn't own a single BD. There some here and there, but they don't ruin the film or viewing experience in this particular case, IMO.

[rocknblues81]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

Yeah, thats ONE shot. How about looking at the other 15 where all the whites are now teal? Looks ridiculous and is 100% revisionist. Never looked this way theatrically.

I particularly love this vomit blue-green pavement, which should be gray... you know, like in the previous edition with correct colors.

https://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d...7&i=11&l=1&a=1

So now there is enough evidence for me to be able to say I don't think this edition will be much of an upgrade? Just asking...

[Dellamorte13]

Sheesh! Those caps do look bad!

Looks like it's time to buy back my original version!

Thanks for the evidence, leading me to not buy this new version. What a waste of an opportunity to remaster a fantastic movie.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by OutOfBoose

^Try PNG, I don't see any blocking there. But there are compression artifacts in other places. I personally stopped getting bothered by compression artifacts. Otherwise I wouldn't own a single BD. There some here and there, but they don't ruin the film or viewing experience in this particular case, IMO.

Uh, there's still LOADS of blocking in the PNG zoom-in, it's not the in-your-face legovision of old but it's definitely there, enough so that I noticed the compression issues on this remaster in motion from my normal viewing distance, never mind a still frame blown up where it's super-obvious (to me, YMMV).

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Bates_Motel

There's missing imagery on EVERY movie ever made, since the whole negative is never used. You can only call it a reframing if the old one is 100% correct, but it probably wasn't.

The teal push is unacceptable though. Just like Dreams, King & I, RAN, Thief, Terminator, and countless others, whites are now blu-green, and they were simply not that way theatrically. The obsession of putting a modern grading onto an older film to make it look "new" — and thus ruining it in the process — should stop. I'm getting tired of having to re-grade all of these back to how the originally looked.



Looks more like unnaturally boosted colors than true saturation. The mountains in the background are now teal, as well as all the whites in the shot. Looks terrible. At least the old release looks correct and natural.

Wait a second now. It was confirmed that the remastered disc of The Terminator looked just like the 35mm prints.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by OutOfBoose

^Try PNG, I don't see any blocking there. But there are compression artifacts in other places. I personally stopped getting bothered by compression artifacts. Otherwise I wouldn't own a single BD. There some here and there, but they don't ruin the film or viewing experience in this particular case, IMO.

No, it's there in PNG as well. You're not going to see some magical difference between the two formats of .jps and .png anyway.

[MisterXDTV]

This is a perfect example of something I have been trying to say for years:

You can't beat Warner's 2K IP scans when it comes to fidelity/accuracy.

You can scan the negative in 4K hoping to get more detail out of 35mm film but then the color re-grading looks wrong in comparison

[-JKR-]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

You can't beat Warner's 2K IP scans when it comes to fidelity/accuracy.

Yeah, Warner's being doing a bang-up job with their catalogue title scans (just look at the Lethal Weapon movies, The Last Boy Scout, Christmas Vaction, Innerspace, Ace Ventura and many more).

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by -JKR-

Yeah, Warner's being doing a bang-up job with their catalogue title scans (just look at the Lethal Weapon movies, The Last Boy Scout, Christmas Vaction, Innerspace, Ace Ventura and many more).

Also The Fugitive, Devil's Advocate, Superman Anthology are among my favorite discs ever. They come from 2K IP scans...

[Cook]

Since this is supposedly the Director's Definitive version this is apparently how Mann wants the film to look. So I dont mind having it in my collection. Ill always have the original version. Doesnt hurt to have this version too.

[Neutron82]

what a waste, I kinda regret ordering the zavvi steelbook now

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Cook

Since this is supposedly the Director's Definitive version this is apparently how Mann wants the film to look. So I dont mind having it in my collection. Ill always have the original version. Doesnt hurt to have this version too.

Did he say that this new 4K scan represented his vision of the film?

[Cook]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Did he say that this new 4K scan represented his vision of the film?

Well its called the definitive director's version. Hopefully Mann confirms it or denies it at some point. For now Ill own it and assume it is. If its confirmed he doesnt approve of the new color grade Ill just own it as a curious aberration.

[-JKR-]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Did he say that this new 4K scan represented his vision of the film?

When Fox first announced that they were working on a new BD for Heat during a Q&A, they mentioned that they were working closely with Michael Mann on this new version.

And to be fair, it doesn't look bad at all.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Cook

Well its called the definitive director's version. Hopefully Mann confirms it or denies it at some point. For now Ill own it and assume it is. If its confirmed he doesnt approve of the new color grade Ill just own it as a curious aberration.

Send him a message on Twitter. Let us know what he says.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by -JKR-

When Fox first announced that they were working on a new BD for Heat during a Q&A, they mentioned that they were working closely with Michael Mann on this new version.

And to be fair, it doesn't look bad at all.

Compared to what? Compared to the original BD I don't think it looks hardly better at all. Yes, detail is slightly improved, but compression is a mess with grain appearing more chunky than the original BD. Then there's the problem of a teal tint that does nothing but obscure the fine detail. If you recall we had the same problem with Scanners from Criterion. A new scan was completed and supervised by Cronenberg, but then he decided to add this blanket green tint across the entire film and it looks awful because it drowns out all of the fine detail. I am just glad we had the DE release that is the new scan without the green tint. Now, with that said I am all for director's wishes, but there comes a point where too much tinkering starts to cause problems like Lucas with Star Wars, Friedken with The French Connection, Cronenberg with Scanners, and Mann with The Last of the Mohicans, Thief, and now Heat.