Apple cant hang with Microsoft?

[Zvi]

And one more example of Apple being "innovative" - Apple restricts Palm access to itunes

Lemme guess, if MS did similar thing it's be the worst thing ever, but when Apple does it with itunes, or limiting browsers on iphone, that's something they "have to do" to protect their users huh?

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by toefer

A lot of this seems pretty wrong. A custom built PC will be faster than a Mac, sure, but probably for about a month or two. No reasonable person wants to keep upgrading their computer, or reformatting it everytime the adware/spyware/malware starts to bring it down.

And you fail to acknowledge that there are plenty of computer nerds who swear by Apple. Just because they're being marketed as the computers hipsters use doesn't mean that other people don't use them as well.

If the Mac OS is so inferior, why does Windows keep copying aspects of it?

I think what people have a problem with isn't the actual Mac computers, but the image that Apple is becoming. They hate that Apple products have become the "cool" things to own (MacBooks, iPods, iPhones) so they're rebelling against the entire company due to that.

PCs are better for gaming, but that's about it.
~~~~

The reason I think MS' recent commercials are bad is because it's not a fair comparison.

If the ads were saying "find a Mac, then find a comparable PC, and compare the prices" then it'd be ok.

But the commercial tells people to go find a computer (any kind of computer) for under $1,000, and if they do, they'll get it for free.

So this is a cheap-shot at Apple for not offering much under $1,000... but realistically, who would turn down a FREE computer, when given the chance?

I doubt anyone is choosing the PC over the Mac as much as they are choosing a FREE $900 PC over a Mac they'd have to pay their own money for.

You bring up some good points, BUT, it should be noted that you can get a comparable PC for MUCH less than a MAC, not just a low end PC for less then a high end MAC.

Also, you forget to mention the crazy "only works with apple" sh*t they have been doing. It is not just cool to own a iPod, but apple makes sure you have MASSIVE switching costs once you buy anything from them. People dont like them because they make microsoft look consumer friendly, they sue anyone over anything, they pretend that they are not publicly owned leaving shareholders in the dark until the last possible moment (as if they are TRYING to manipulate their share price through fraud), ETC.

So, what is unfair? Microsoft came up with a good ad? This is just normal Apple trying to strong arm people into being nice to them... strange, like a child in a sand box bullying other kids and asking teacher to make everyone love him.



Bottom line, Apple is a shady company that makes other shady companies look like boy scouts. Apple costs an arm and a leg to buy, with VERY few options in laptops, and astronomically expensive options in desktops.

They are good computers, my sister, mom and dad all use only Apple.

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Despite of all that money, even today, something as simple as "maximize window" button on Mac OS doesn't work as its name suggests, in some apps it does maximize a window, in others it does make it some unspecified size. Inconsistent to say the least, illogical to me, but I've had arguments with Mac fans who seriously believe, or try to convince others that it is debatable whether or not "Maximize button" should actually maximize!?!
So, what's next, close button shouldn't actually close the window, but do something funny?
That and inability to resize window from any side. Jeezzz... I have to move mouse over to right bottom corner exactly to resize it. Talk about convenient UI... Especially when UR on the laptop.

I have to say, being a crossy like you (working with Macs and PCs all the time), this one gets me a lot about Mac's window resizing. That's definitely some kind of bizarre glitch in the OS that's been like that for a while; you'd think they'd have fixed that by now.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

What annoys me is have you ever noticed that in just about every frickin' movie that shows a computer it's ALWAYS an Apple?

Advertising annoys you?

Do yourself a favor, never walk out of your house or watch TV ever again.

Logan

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Bigdog

Actually what makes it obvious is they give them a 1,000 dollar limit, unless your buying a iphone or ipod your not buying anything else apple with a grand. Their 1,000 dollar laptops are jokes, comparable to a 300 dollar net surfer you would get with a pc.

Really the only difference between a apple and a pc these days is the o/s. The new windows closes the gap almost completely, apple knows this which is why they are crying at this time!

Windows 7 makes it so that PC's are nearly immune to viruses and spybots?

Really?

That's amazing.

That's also entirely wrong, but amazing stories none-the-less.

Logan

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Windows 7 makes it so that PC's are nearly immune to viruses and spybots?

Really?

That's amazing.

That's also entirely wrong, but amazing stories none-the-less.

Logan

yeah everything I've been reading about it is that they patched up the vista code instead of re-writing it. But I'll wait along time b4 I decide to switch to 7 just like I did with vista. Vista isn't bad either its just not amazing like the older OS's were

[Bigdog]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Windows 7 makes it so that PC's are nearly immune to viruses and spybots?

Really?

That's amazing.

That's also entirely wrong, but amazing stories none-the-less.

Logan

That's funny because i said none of that! What is funny however is a fan-boy like yourself actually getting bent out of shape from my post.

There is more to a O/S then virus issues, not to mention virus problems are 9 times out of ten caused by OE and nothing else.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Bigdog

That's funny because i said none of that! What is funny however is a fan-boy like yourself actually getting bent out of shape from my post.

There is more to a O/S then virus issues, not to mention virus problems are 9 times out of ten caused by OE and nothing else.

I'm not a fanboy by any stretch, but when you have an OS that slows down after a few months of semi-regular use and stays that way upping the amount of time that you have to spend on upkeep instead of just using your computer, then no, Windows is still pretty damned far from the Mac OS. {any Mac OS}

If you can't use the OS due to virus issues, then that's all the operator should be worried about.

If you're on a system that doesn't get many viruses at all, then you don't have to worry about OE.

Logan

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by supersix4

yeah everything I've been reading about it is that they patched up the vista code instead of re-writing it. But I'll wait along time b4 I decide to switch to 7 just like I did with vista. Vista isn't bad either its just not amazing like the older OS's were

From what I've heard Windows 7 is being worked on by the team that did XP.

Also I've heard that there's two teams and that every second OS from Microsoft looks similar, so the one after Windows 7 is likely going to look like vista.

Logan

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Windows 7 makes it so that PC's are nearly immune to viruses and spybots?

Really?

That's amazing.

That's also entirely wrong, but amazing stories none-the-less.

Logan

Where did he say any of that?

First off, NOTHING apple is "immune to viruses and spybots," Point of FACT, Safari, in terms of security, is one of the worst browsers available. Of course, IE also had some REALLY inviting versions too.

The point is that claiming Apple is immune to viruses, and saying "Apple has less viruses because it has so few users that jerks dont want to waste time writing viruses for it" are two different things. It has been shown time and again that Apple is wide open to viruses if any does come along.

Bottom line, there are a TON of made-for-PC viruses, but it is MUCH easier to gain access to MAC. Careful how you toot that "MACs are immune" garbage.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by brettallica

I have to say, being a crossy like you (working with Macs and PCs all the time), this one gets me a lot about Mac's window resizing. That's definitely some kind of bizarre glitch in the OS that's been like that for a while; you'd think they'd have fixed that by now.

Nah, I doubt it's a glitch. Why would they even bother with the fix, there's tons of AppleBots out there who will try to prove it to you that this is a feature and it's natural... Just like maximize doing its own unpredictable thingy...

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Windows 7 makes it so that PC's are nearly immune to viruses and spybots?

Either you have no idea how software works, or are very naive to believe Macs are "nearly immune". Just in one year I've had to clean up few comps owned by dudes just like U, who believe Macs are immune. The looks on their faces when they learned they've had virus was immensely satisfying.

If you can't manage to use your comp w/o going to the sites that will install malware and trojans, even though browsers warn you(!) and you have to click every single link in your spam, then here's a hint: run windows in a Guest mode. That way nothing will be installed, you still can read your email and browse the web. Obviously that will not save you from the virus infection caused by running unknown executable w/o virus check, but the same will happen to any OS, including Mac OS.
If you are on Vista, then don't disable the security system and that's it. Especially that Mac OS does the same thing, asking every time password to run/install stuff.

I realize when Mac OS asks for the password that is a godsend, and when Vista asks for the password that is dumb and plain evil, but still, you might consider it You'll feel like UR on Mac.

Originally Posted by jadedeath

From what I've heard Windows 7 is being worked on by the team that did XP.

I'm sorry do you view that as a negative? And if yes, then what do you think, Apple replaces the entire team from 10.5.4 to 10.5.5?
Obviously Apple probably ditched the whole crew back when they ditched their oh so great OS before switching to UNIX and convincing every applebot that UNIX was invented by Apple, but these days nobody replaces developers like that.

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Also I've heard that there's two teams and that every second OS from Microsoft looks similar, so the one after Windows 7 is likely going to look like vista.

And every new version of Apple OS look sooo different. Except that their stupid window management stays the same...

Besides, unlike Apple MS actually cares about backwards comparability (you know, like when Vista supports 10 years old hardware and Apple blames users for not having printers that are less than 3 Yr old, instead of supporting them).
So, what exactly is your point, you want to learn again and again what's were in every new OS from the same company? Just the new features aren't enough?

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Zvi

I realize when Mac OS asks for the password that is a godsend, and when Vista asks for the password that is dumb and plain evil, but still, you might consider it You'll feel like UR on Mac.

Why not, Microsoft is Apple's parrot anyway.

I'm sorry do you view that as a negative? And if yes, then what do you think, Apple replaces the entire team from 10.5.4 to 10.5.5?
Obviously Apple probably ditched the whole crew back when they ditched their oh so great OS before switching to UNIX and convincing every applebot that UNIX was invented by Apple, but these days nobody replaces developers like that.

Did I say it was a negative?

If so, please prove it, point it out to me maybe?

For someone who knows so much about computers, maybe it's the reading part you're having trouble with. Might want to work on that.

I'm just saying that the folks who don't like Vista now {due to a myriad of reasons} aren't going to be too impressed unless they work out the bugs when Windows 8 comes around.

And every new version of Apple OS look sooo different. Except that their stupid window management stays the same...

I find their window management is rather simple to use, if you drag your knuckles too much to click on the button that exposes all the windows so you can click on the one you want to use, why blame society?

Besides, unlike Apple MS actually cares about backwards comparability (you know, like when Vista supports 10 years old hardware and Apple blames users for not having printers that are less than 3 Yr old, instead of supporting them).

Most people don't have underwear 10 years old, why would you still have a 10 year old printer?

So, what exactly is your point, you want to learn again and again what's were in every new OS from the same company? Just the new features aren't enough?

Some folks just like to learn things... can't fault them for that.

I mean trained monkeys can learn and understand windows, and I guess that explains why most of the hackers love that system.

Logan

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Zvi

I realize when Mac OS asks for the password that is a godsend, and when Vista asks for the password that is dumb and plain evil, but still, you might consider it You'll feel like UR on Mac.

Why not, Microsoft is Apple's parrot anyway.

I'm sorry do you view that as a negative? And if yes, then what do you think, Apple replaces the entire team from 10.5.4 to 10.5.5?
Obviously Apple probably ditched the whole crew back when they ditched their oh so great OS before switching to UNIX and convincing every applebot that UNIX was invented by Apple, but these days nobody replaces developers like that.

Did I say it was a negative?

If so, please prove it, point it out to me maybe?

For someone who knows so much about computers, maybe it's the reading part you're having trouble with. Might want to work on that.

I'm just saying that the folks who don't like Vista now {due to a myriad of reasons} aren't going to be too impressed unless they work out the bugs when Windows 8 comes around.

And every new version of Apple OS look sooo different. Except that their stupid window management stays the same...

I find their window management is rather simple to use, if you drag your knuckles too much to click on the button that exposes all the windows so you can click on the one you want to use, why blame society?

Besides, unlike Apple MS actually cares about backwards comparability (you know, like when Vista supports 10 years old hardware and Apple blames users for not having printers that are less than 3 Yr old, instead of supporting them).

Most people don't have underwear 10 years old, why would you still have a 10 year old printer?

So, what exactly is your point, you want to learn again and again what's were in every new OS from the same company? Just the new features aren't enough?

Some folks just like to learn things... can't fault them for that.

I mean trained monkeys can learn and understand windows, and I guess that explains why most of the hackers love that system.

Logan

[toef]

Originally Posted by Zvi

And one more example of Apple being "innovative" - Apple restricts Palm access to itunes

Lemme guess, if MS did similar thing it's be the worst thing ever, but when Apple does it with itunes, or limiting browsers on iphone, that's something they "have to do" to protect their users huh?

I thought you were a programmer, so you should be familiar with what Palm was doing it. I wouldn't word it as Apple forcing Palm to stop, as much as I'd say Palm should've never been doing it in the first place. If it wasn't legally wrong what they were doing (rigging the Pre's to show up as iPods when plugged into a computer) it was certainly a bit mischievous.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Why not, Microsoft is Apple's parrot anyway.

Oh boy... Here we go again. Yes, we all know that everything good was invented, created, designed and innovated by Apple, and everybody else is either ripping Apple's ideas off or just making cheap knockoffs of Apple products. You guys don't really need to repeat that, too old, and makes U look like parrots actually.

While we're at it, could you please list what exactly Vista or XP parroted from ze grrrrreat Apple... Or windoze 7? Or you just heard that was the case from one of the Apple evangelistas?

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Did I say it was a negative?

If so, please prove it, point it out to me maybe?

Shizz.. Chill out dude, UR not gonna drag me to court for that are you? Actually I was unsure, and because of that I clearly asked - I'm sorry do you view that as a negative?

Originally Posted by jadedeath

maybe it's the reading part you're having trouble with. Might want to work on that.

Am I?

Originally Posted by jadedeath

when Windows 8 comes around.

I think it's 7...
Unlike Apple, MS and PC users aren't in denial about having bugs and problems It's Apple that never has bugs, defects or probems, everything is either MS fault, or stupid/hateful users. In short if UF cool enough, then you can't have probs with apple.

Originally Posted by jadedeath

I find their window management is rather simple to use, if you drag your knuckles too much to click on the button that exposes all the windows so you can click on the one you want to use, why blame society?

Just like I predicted few posts above there's enough folks who argue the obvious Anyway, the action in question was resizing a particular window and that's fairly common practice, unless you work with 1 app maximized full screen, which in Mac OS case is a pain in the a$$, as the maximize button doesn't really do that. Presumably, almighty Mac OS knows better what maximize means... At any rate, resizing a window is not done just to "expose all the windows". What kind of argument is that? You can't think of any other case when one might need to resize a window?
Mac OS is so good, it automatically sizes all the windows to your preferences or you just gave up on that and go with what OS does?

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Most people don't have underwear 10 years old, why would you still have a 10 year old printer?

Pardon, but that is really arrogant and dumba$$ assessment of the issue. Typical Apple stance anyway... There are tons of reasons why people have old hardware, same for the large organizations. So, let me get this right, Apple and you are tryingto force ppl to change hardware every n years...
And I remember all the apple zealots screaming their hearts out when MS vista came out and stated hardware older than 10 years wouldn't be supported. So when Apple does it it's the users fault... Again.

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Some folks just like to learn things... can't fault them for that.

That must be those ppl who complain about Windows being too complex and Apple being too so easy As usual Apple wins no matter what.

For your information, at least what I read from User Experience research documents ( have to due to my work), most of the ppl prefer familiar interfaces, and software products get commended for that. U see, most of the people who actually work with their computers, after upgrade just want
to get back to their work, and not spend next few weeks learning the whole thing again. Counterproductive that is.
That of course excludes Applebots, who are ready to swallow anything that comes down from Apple with or without any explanation.
Anyway, why am I even explaining this, apple folks do have a capacity to argue the most obvious stuff anyway...

Originally Posted by jadedeath

I mean trained monkeys can learn and understand windows, and I guess that explains why most of the hackers love that system.

And again, you have no idea what hacking is, how it's done and the work involved in discovering security vulnerabilities and exploiting them.
So, if you spend that much time and effort and risk troubles with legal system, you want to cover larger base, so it is worth the effort. So far benefits of hacking Windows outweigh Mac OS by very large margin.
Still, contrary to your deep beliefs Mac OS is just as hackable given the effort and time.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by toefer

I thought you were a programmer

Indeed I am.

Originally Posted by toefer

so you should be familiar with what Palm was doing it. I wouldn't word it as Apple forcing Palm to stop, as much as I'd say Palm should've never been doing it in the first place. If it wasn't legally wrong what they were doing (rigging the Pre's to show up as iPods when plugged into a computer) it was certainly a bit mischievous.

Again, Apple is/was limiting access to their platform. Besides having defacto monoploy with itune...
Like I said, MS is wrong to limit anything, and name one thing apple is not limiting... Starting from Browser on iphone, (of course it's done to protect users). Having iphone SDK only on Macs, having alll the apps for iphone go through apple approval system (to protect users) itune limited to iphone...

Like I said, I understand it's done for money and out of excessive greed. Just, no need to portray that as the result of intensive R&D and other good deeds from Apple.
They're much more power hungry and restrictive compared to MS.

[SpoonMaN]

*grabs more popcorn* this has been a great thread. anyways im a pc tech and really dont use OSX much at all but in my line of work we do have to use the apple hardware and while the laptops are very nice looking, they dont have any perf advantage over a windowz pc.

also at those hacker conferences every year, when they see who can hack what fastest, havent the last couple years done the hack through safari?
now to be honest i think they used a hack through flash that also worked in IE7,IE8 and firefox but for some reason they use safari first.

[toef]

Originally Posted by Zvi

Indeed I am.


Again, Apple is/was limiting access to their platform. Besides having defacto monoploy with itune...
Like I said, MS is wrong to limit anything, and name one thing apple is not limiting... Starting from Browser on iphone, (of course it's done to protect users). Having iphone SDK only on Macs, having alll the apps for iphone go through apple approval system (to protect users) itune limited to iphone...

Like I said, I understand it's done for money and out of excessive greed. Just, no need to portray that as the result of intensive R&D and other good deeds from Apple.
They're much more power hungry and restrictive compared to MS.

It's two different issues. If you want to argue that Apple should open up iTunes to other MP3 players, then I kind of agree. But at the same time, since it's an Apple program, if they want it to only work with an Apple MP3 player, I think that's fine too. How is that any different than Sony releasing a video game that only works on a PS3?

If you want to argue that Palm should be allowed to use the iPod's USB Vendor/Product ID, so that when it's plugged into a computer, the computer thinks it's an Apple device/iPod, then I disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't knowingly using someone else's IDs count as some sort of IP infringement?

[RiseDarthVader]

Originally Posted by mikejet

If you want to do high end editing for graphics, photography, sound, or movies, get a Mac.

And how does using photoshop on a Mac make it better then using it on a PC?