Cheap Chinese Hd Dud Player

[BigB88]

Originally Posted by JTK

You ever heard of NDA? These folks aren't ALLOWED to give us certain information even though they may really want to.

I agree, the more reason we need something official to sink our teeth into at the very least to see if the BDA is still alive and well!

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

this is probably going to be the worst thing to ever happen to hd dvd. f1. people who buy electronics at wal-mart are most likely oblivoious to this format war. 2. to people who are oblivious about the format war, this is going to look like an expensive dvd player. 3. people who shop at wal-mart for dvd players buy 39.99 dvd players, not 199 dvd players. 4. the pq is not going to look nearly as good as blu-ray, sealing the deal to a lot of people that are fence sitters that blu-ray is better. 5. the brand sucks, its gonna break, now we got news all over the internet of hd dvd players break a lot, hows that .2% blu-ray failure rate??? this isn't going to save hd dvd.

This scenario reminds me of the Xbox 360 disaster. Yes, they got to market first (like HD-DVD); yes the consoles were cheaper ... Then they started to break. If that happens en masse to HD-DVD it could seriously hurt the chances of the format. If enough of the the players sold are accident-prone, people might assign the blame to HD-DVD rather than the player manufacturer.

Addendum: They would of course be wrong in that, but the damage would have been done.

[BigB88]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

paramount took away like 7 movies for 18 months, fox added 29 that will never be seen on hd dvd. blu-ray won last monday IMO.

Your not getting it, we are dealing with perception here, not reality. We need something for perception in addition to the reality and so far BDA has been silent.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by BigB88

Wars aren't won on "hints".

you are right but the fact that currently the blu-ray format has

1) blu-ray recordable DIGITAL CAMCORDERS..HD DVD has none
2) blu-ray has 6x blu-ray burners, we get access to 8 x blu-ray burners next month...LETS JUST SAY WERE BEING NICE AND ASK WHAT IS THE HD DVDburner speed for their burner... ..hint is not a 6x or a 8 x
3) BD-j is now being implimented

the fact is Paramount thinks the $200.00 price point is what is going to win out...nope its when the DISC prices drop to DVD prices will the player's start selling. the fact the way you lower DISC cost's is by selling more disc's.

AND CURRENTLY BLU-RAY CAN SELL THE Following:

BLU-RAY :BLANK MEDIA
BLU-RAY :MOVIES
BLU-RAY :SOFTWARE
the simple fact that HD DVD is not used for SOFTWARE is a very big disadvantage.

this format war is not going to keep blu-ray from developing into the better format. the PRO -HD DVD zealots are running their mouth about a single chinese production company...the BDA has OVER 18 such companies all dedicated to make Blu-Ray optical DRIVE AND PLAYERS the NEXT evolution of DVD. and they will succeed .

[BigB88]

Originally Posted by joeorc

you are right but the fact that currently the blu-ray format has

1) blu-ray recordable DIGITAL CAMCORDERS..HD DVD has none
2) blu-ray has 6x blu-ray burners, we get access to 8 x blu-ray burners next month...LETS JUST SAY WERE BEING NICE AND ASK WHAT IS THE HD DVDburner speed for their burner... ..hint is not a 6x or a 8 x
3) BD-j is now being implimented

the fact is Paramount thinks the $200.00 price point is what is going to win out...nope its when the DISC prices drop to DVD prices will the player's start selling. the fact the way you lower DISC cost's is by selling more disc's.

AND CURRENTLY BLU-RAY CAN SELL THE Following:

BLU-RAY :BLANK MEDIA
BLU-RAY :MOVIES
BLU-RAY :SOFTWARE
the simple fact that HD DVD is not used for SOFTWARE is a very big disadvantage.

this format war is not going to keep blu-ray from developing into the better format. the PRO -HD DVD zealots are running their mouth about a single chinese production company...the BDA has OVER 18 such companies all dedicated to make Blu-Ray optical DRIVE AND PLAYERS the NEXT evolution of DVD. and they will succeed .

I agree with all your points, the problem right now is perception and the perception is that Blu Ray is folding their tents and going home. All these things keep popping up and they are all pro-HD-DVD and all HD-DVD "good news". Yes, I know this has only been recent and before that time it was all Blu Ray "good news", but the BDA has to counter with SOMETHING, if they don't they just dig themselves a deeper hole.

[shug7272]

Come on guys, if you think Sony is just gonna give up because MS bought Paramount your wrong. I think we will get some good announcements. If not then Sony is more arrogant than I thought. The PS3 will carry them alot, but not all the way home. We will get something, I would bet on it. If for no other reason than all the pro HD DVD news lately. Seems they are trying to get ahead of something here. Like damage control before the damage is actually dealt.

[bmr76]

Where I work, the sony bdp-s300 costs us 349.30-sells for 499.99. Hd dud costs us 230.98 sales for 299.99(sometimes 269.99 on sale.) The new bd-1400 from samsung cost is 350.45, will retail for 499.99. Why do i mention this, well sony is generating a decent profit for us and them. HD DVD is low margin and makes us basically no money. Everytime hd dvd dropped, toshiba had to lower the cost to us. Basically sony could drop to 399.99 at anytime and retailers would still make money. Sony could eat the difference at any time like they did with ps3- but I wonder if losses on ps3, are stopping them from big markdowns on standalones?

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by BigB88

Wars aren't won on "hints".

Nor intent. Nor announcements. Nor gerrymandering the inclusion/exclusion metrics for sales/attach rate claims.

Disc wars are won on selling the most discs. Right now, that is Blu-ray by a 2:1 margin.

An intent to release a player isn't a release.
A player release isn't a sale.
A player sale isn't a disc sale.

The problem here is the pressing of a very bad value metric. After getting a $150 (to take the new number that is being assumed - it will be a $1.95 by Xmas) and a bunch of free discs, what happens when they go look at the rack of discs to buy?

Heroes + Transformers + Shrek 3 + Knocked Up = $150. Think that is going to go down well?

Gary

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by bmr76

Where I work, the sony bdp-s300 costs us 349.30-sells for 499.99. Hd dud costs us 230.98 sales for 299.99(sometimes 269.99 on sale.) The new bd-1400 from samsung cost is 350.45, will retail for 499.99. Why do i mention this, well sony is generating a decent profit for us and them. HD DVD is low margin and makes us basically no money.

Thank you for the confirmation! I've felt this was the case (and stated so confidently) but your's are the first hard numbers.

Originally Posted by bmr76

Everytime hd dvd dropped, toshiba had to lower the cost to us. Basically sony could drop to 399.99 at anytime and retailers would still make money. Sony could eat the difference at any time like they did with ps3- but I wonder if losses on ps3, are stopping them from big markdowns on standalones?

Doubtful, they are different divisions. I think it is simply nothing more than wanting to make this generation profitable for everyone, and give some room underneath for the bargain brands. The whole point of all this for the CE was a new profitable market.

Gary

P.S. Welcome to forum.

[GaS]

Originally Posted by BigB88

I agree with all your points, the problem right now is perception and the perception is that Blu Ray is folding their tents and going home.

With whom? The zealots on the other side?

[bmr76]

I also have some connections to wal mart, met through where I work now. Basically I was told that our cost is good, we have large buying power, but obviously better. The cost walmart supposedyl gets for the bdps300 is around 250.00- I have not seen this, so this is from word of mouth. Would that number help us to guess on the funai cost. Im very curious.

[scragham]

first, if the price and features are right, then i might actually go pseudo-neutral with this player - just for transformers and bourne.

second, there are still so many questions about this player still that it's no reason to get freaked out about it. full specs, price, how well it runs, etc... i would imagine the average joe isn't going to be pleased if the loadup times are molasses slow the way they are now with what, the a2?

the average joe also still needs to own a HDTV to play in this market.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by bmr76

I also have some connections to wal mart, met through where I work now. Basically I was told that our cost is good, we have large buying power, but obviously better. The cost walmart supposedyl gets for the bdps300 is around 250.00- I have not seen this, so this is from word of mouth. Would that number help us to guess on the funai cost. Im very curious.

I had been guessing something like $299 SRP, and the S300 dropping to $399 SRP late in the year after the S500 is released.

Given the need for a decent set, and the cost of the software, I don't think the $100 or so difference between the two formats for entry-level players is going to make a difference come Q4. If the perception is that Blu-ray is the premier format, then it simply becomes the cost of buying into that.

I also think that a lot of the CE will have bundle deals with their sets. And that clearly favours the BDA companies, who practically own the set market.

Gary

[jorg]

Originally Posted by scragham

first, if the price and features are right, then i might actually go pseudo-neutral with this player - just for transformers and bourne.

second, there are still so many questions about this player still that it's no reason to get freaked out about it. full specs, price, how well it runs, etc... i would imagine the average joe isn't going to be pleased if the loadup times are molasses slow the way they are now with what, the a2?

the average joe also still needs to own a HDTV to play in this market.

if your going nuteral for that u should just buy that new buffilo drive for 400 somthing and burn your own bds(hints hd dvd copies haha)

[scragham]

Originally Posted by jorg

if your going nuteral for that u should just buy that new buffilo drive for 400 somthing and burn your own bds(hints hd dvd copies haha)

hehe i hear you, but i'm even less of a fan of pirating movies than i am of no-name CEs... :-/

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by scragham

first, if the price and features are right, then i might actually go pseudo-neutral with this player - just for transformers and bourne.

second, there are still so many questions about this player still that it's no reason to get freaked out about it. full specs, price, how well it runs, etc... i would imagine the average joe isn't going to be pleased if the loadup times are molasses slow the way they are now with what, the a2?

the average joe also still needs to own a HDTV to play in this market.

I guess THAT is what would have some in these parts concerned.

If this interested me, I would want to wait to read about the build quality, user experience, and reliability with the various discs.

To me the $500 player is far more intriguing than the cheap stuff. But, there is no choice for HD DVD. You can get Toshiba (which never has appealed to me) or an Onkyo (which will probably be absolutely insane here).

Where are the profitable players? There are players from Toshiba. Player(s) from Broadcom/Microsoft via the Chinese. And one high-end from a company that says it will probably release a Blu-ray player too.

Where are the HD DVD players in the Samsung, Philips, Panasonic, Sony price range?

Gary

[The Guardian]

I think he meant buy the HD DVD and make a blu-ray version to watch.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by The Guardian

I think he meant buy the HD DVD and make a blu-ray version to watch.

Yeah. Well, Paramount really is going to unleash a storm in that area, I think.

Let me show you a bootleggers showroom

In the past week we've seen people say there are BD-R ready images of ported HD DVDs on the torrents. And Future Shop here was selling BD-R for $8. Which means they are probably $5 in big quantity.

HD DVD -> BD is easy, in fact the tools are available
BD -> HD DVD requires a re-encode.

Gary

P.S. Let me be clear: I'm severely against piracy.

[The Guardian]

Ahh yes but in Canada (unlike USA) backing up an HD DVD you own to a Blu-ray disc is not piracy...

Well ok it's not in the USA either, but it IS criminal hacking...

[jason_grumpy]

Originally Posted by BigB88

Your not getting it, we are dealing with perception here, not reality. We need something for perception in addition to the reality and so far BDA has been silent.

Whoa, slow down there.

First, the Paramount announcement means nothing in this stage. The shock was that it wasn't expected, especially with them starting to favor Blu-Ray with extras, sound, and encodes (makes you wonder if this is part of the reason they targeted Paramount). Had you asked anyone before this announcement which way Paramount was going to go, they would have said BR. HD-DVD has gained no market share by this move and is attempting to prolong the format war to survive Christmas. If anything, this move generated bad publicity for HD-DVD trying to buy it's way to victory with an inferior product. Several articles and websites have belittled Paramounts decision, and slammed Toshiba for slowing consumer adoption and have pointed out the lies of HD-DVD. Each one of those articles all lead to one thing, BR was and still is winning and the move by Toshiba was desperation only.

So we lost Paramount who was half-heartedly endorsing HD media, and gained back Fox who seems to be ready to play ball for Blu-Ray only. As a fellow poster pointed out, this only increased Blu-Ray's market share. Before Christmas, Fox will have released as many movies as Paramount has put out an entire year.

I'm a firm believer that perception IS reality, especially with this format war. However you forget that public perception is that Blu Ray is winning, or will win. Articles posted in major news papers have picked Blu-Ray each time the past 5 months. Retailers are beginning to drop HD-DVD and stock Blu-Ray only. Major talk radio hosts have talked about it, and if you go to any brick and mortar establishments, you'll see a dominating Blu Ray presence with a 2:1 or greater ratio for total units in favor of Blu Ray. More displays for Blu-Ray players, and giant posters at rental places saying that Blu-Ray is the future, implying that anything "DVD" is old, which also indirectly implies HD-DVD is DVD era as well.

Public perception indeed. Even articles commenting on the Paramount buyoff have stated the BEST HD-DVD can hope for now is a tie.

With that in mind, I'd say that public perception right now still highly favors Blu-Ray.

As far as the BDA, I think Toshiba caught wind of something and is scared to death. Don't you think it's rather odd that Toshiba is showing all it's playing cards now and going all out months before Black Friday? I will agree with another person on AVM$, and that is that something big is in the works and Toshiba is preemptively trying to counter it. Insiders here have hinted at it as well, some pseudo-insiders have even gone on to say that it is "war ending". The BDA is not stupid, and we know by insider information that they knew that the Paramount deal was going down.

Let's not forget after this whole drama started one insider has stated the BDA is sharpening their swords, and another hinted that this move has the real sleeping giant, Sony Corp paying attention.

As another insider put it, this is like a game of Chess. To pay off $150 million to a set of studios gives the appearance that Toshiba is desperate. In chess speak, Toshiba is trying to prevent an imminent Checkmate, drawing attention away from the winning move by Blu-Ray anyway they can.

Standalone BR sales are out pacing HD-DVD even with Toshiba practically giving them away, disc ratios are consistently 2:1 or greater for Blu-Ray. PS3 owners are becoming increasingly aware that their machine allows BR playback from 20% to 40%. And PS3 this Christmas year is going to be a powerhouse, offering 100+ games and exclusives, with for the first time exceeding Xbox 360's sales for the month with one exclusive must have game (Ninja Gaiden). As soon as the exclusive studio's begin releasing in Japan, the format war for us is effectively over as Japan is BR only, and region A.

Be patient, calm down, grab some popcorn, and watch the show.