Do you guys ever miss how gaming USED to be?

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by kallima

How is it challenging you with numerous checkpoints that don't require you to successfully beat sections of a game despite a plethora of mistakes? Game play is about timing, anticipation, reflexes and strategy all of which, IMHO significantly decrease if I have a checkpoint available every other minute.

That first sentence is illogical; extra checkpoints don't exempt players from sections of a game; you still have to play the sections with or without save stations. Extra checkpoints only preclude repeating sections you've already cleared. In my view, all the raw difficulty and gameplay remain if I get convenient chances to save and continue. Thus, I like games better when replaying levels happens on my terms.

[kallima]

Originally Posted by Musashi

That first sentence is illogical; extra checkpoints don't exempt players from sections of a game; you still have to play the sections with or without save stations. Extra checkpoints only preclude repeating sections you've already cleared. In my view, all the raw difficulty and gameplay remain if I get convenient chances to save and continue. Thus, I like games better when replaying levels happens on my terms.

Eh, but taking the section in segments is still too easy. To me it's like running a 15k marathon and having it broken down with 1k rest stops in between. Or even worse, let's have a rest stop every 200 feet. To each their own though.

[Steelmaker]

I just miss certain types of games on console like space combat games, puzzle games, strategy games, Japanese RPG's, etc.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by kallima

Eh, but taking the section in segments is still too easy.

Yeah man! They should just get rid of pauses, checkpoints and game saves altogether. Start to finish, on sitting, can't even take a leak. That's real men's gaming.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Snicket

Wow, look at all the *****y old men who came out of the woodwork to jerk each other off about "the glory days".

Save if for the obituary gramps.

[Show spoiler]

In my day we respected our elders. We shoveled their snow, we mowed their lawns, we listened to their boring stories and we laughed at their stupid jokes.

And we liked it.

These freaking kids today, I tell ya...

[master_8ball]

We all use to be kids and kids are usually over excited about anything and everything... As much as I can relate to the stories of having friends over and playing GoldenEye and Mario Kart for hours on end and loving it, I am sure you wouldn't get the same feeling doing so today with the same games.

I still enjoy having a friend over and playing split-screen COD or LBP Karting. I do wish more games came with split-screen or co-op but there are lots of games like that still being made. Gaming now is better than it has ever been and should continue down the same path. I don't think games in general were better then, there was just less to choose from and we were easier to please.

[kallima]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

Yeah man! They should just get rid of pauses, checkpoints and game saves altogether. Start to finish, on sitting, can't even take a leak. That's real men's gaming.

Taking my point to absurdity a bit, aren't we?

Pauses are much different than a checkpoint everywhere. One allows for taking leaks, the other allows for less skill. But like I said in my original post, that's just my opinion. Yes, have checkpoints but not after every damn difficult section. I grew up with with very few if any checkpoints or saves, and for me - the accomplishment after beating the game was just that, a sense of yes, "Finally! I beat the game! Now let's do it again to see how much time I can shave off the next go round."

But I'm sure that's why difficulty settings were enabled - to accommodate every play style.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by master_8ball

We all use to be kids and kids are usually over excited about anything and everything... As much as I can relate to the stories of having friends over and playing GoldenEye and Mario Kart for hours on end and loving it, I am sure you wouldn't get the same feeling doing so today with the same games.

I still enjoy having a friend over and playing split-screen COD or LBP Karting. I do wish more games came with split-screen or co-op but there are lots of games like that still being made. Gaming now is better than it has ever been and should continue down the same path. I don't think games in general were better then, there was just less to choose from and we were easier to please.

I don't think that's entirely it. I absolutely agree that a lot of this is simple nostalgia. My earliest gaming experiences were Pong and being eaten by Grues on dumb terminals in the DePaul University computer lab. And while I look back on those experiences very warmly I also recognize how primitive and limited those games and the gaming experience really was.

That said, gaming does seem to have plateaued a bit over the past five or more years. I'm saying this as somebody more or less on the outside looking in (I've played/watched some console games but don't own any and have bought a handful of PC RPGs in the past few years) but it seems like changes to gaming are much more incremental lately.

There's certainly nothing wrong with higher resolution or higher polygon counts (do people even talk about polygon counts anymore?) or bigger maps or deeper conversation trees but those kinds of changes aren't as dramatic or - pun fully intended - game changing as the first FPS or the first dedicated graphics accelerators or the first spoken NPC dialogue or early remote multiplayer options.

Doom, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, MS Flight Simulator, Half-life and the like all get romanticized but it's not all nostalgia. There were some fairly significant innovations in there too.

[CoMaToast]

Last game I can actually remember where people would actually go to a friends house, or one that was played often at parties was Guitar Hero.. That game had a good run, but faded out REALLY quick

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Musashi

That first sentence is illogical; extra checkpoints don't exempt players from sections of a game; you still have to play the sections with or without save stations. Extra checkpoints only preclude repeating sections you've already cleared. In my view, all the raw difficulty and gameplay remain if I get convenient chances to save and continue. Thus, I like games better when replaying levels happens on my terms.

Hell yes they do. There is a big difference between being able to chain together a large portion of a level without dying versus completing 1/10th then doing another 1/10th and another 1/10th of it. Hence why Save States make games on emulators much easier.

[kallima]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Hell yes they do. There is a big difference between being able to chain together a large portion of a level without dying versus completing 1/10th then doing another 1/10th and another 1/10th of it. Hence why Save States make games on emulators much easier.

^^THIS^^

Exactly what I was getting at, thank you.

[Blu-rob77]

I remember the first time i played resident evil 2. I was like omg gota call my friend over we took turns and played all night so fun.

[FREYMAX 3D]

Lol, I'm 52 - My brother and I used to play Pong on our 20" black and white tube TV...

But here's something pretty cool - in the late 90's I worked in the IT department of a local telephone company. Corporate Management there actually allowed us to setup our own Quake server and connect it to the company network, and for over 3 years eight or nine of us in the IT department would get on the server from our cubicles and play against each other over our lunch hour, and for about an hour after quitting time! How many employers would ever allow something like that?! We went through Quake, Quake II, and Quake III Arena Servers, and at the time I finally left for a new job, they were just upgrading it to Call of Duty...

All our cubicles were in the same room, so we were all within earshot of each other, allowing us to banter between each other, and gripe about the game play or how someone "cheated" or got off a cheap shot...

I still have Quake III Arena and the original CoD UO loaded on my PC at home, and I still play CoD UO online for a short time almost every evening - I just prefer the game play of that over the newer versions. To me the graphics got too detailed - it just seems to take some of the fun out of the game...

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by kallima

Taking my point to absurdity a bit, aren't we?

My intent was to sound absurd, but it's really not all that absurd, if we really want to get back to the roots of videogaming. Put in your quarter and you can play as long as you want, but you can't pause it to pee, can't save your game, and there were few, if any, checkpoints. If your initials were at the top of the high score list, you were the man and you could prove it. Unfortunately, unplugging the machine erased it. It was fun, though. My initials were never at the top of the list.

[Mouse]

Originally Posted by FREYMAX 3D

But here's something pretty cool - in the late 90's I worked in the IT department of a local telephone company. Corporate Management there actually allowed us to setup our own Quake server and connect it to the company network, and for over 3 years eight or nine of us in the IT department would get on the server from our cubicles and play against each other over our lunch hour, and for about an hour after quitting time! How many employers would ever allow something like that?! We went through Quake, Quake II, and Quake III Arena Servers, and at the time I finally left for a new job, they were just upgrading it to Call of Duty...

All our cubicles were in the same room, so we were all within earshot of each other, allowing us to banter between each other, and gripe about the game play or how someone "cheated" or got off a cheap shot...

I actually did something similar with the network at my old high school. Was taking a college class during my Jr. & Sr. year and one of the full time college students showed us high schoolers there was a demo for Unreal Tourny that allowed you to play online but for only 1 or 2 of the available maps. We high schoolers took that knowledge back to our high school and started playing Unreal Tourny until we found out a few of our teachers played Half-Life Deathmatch (and later on Counter-strike) so we loaded up Half-life on most of the PCs in the computer lab. We would dedicate one to be our "server" then join up. Was so sweet having no lag and playing games during school. I miss those old days playing on a true LAN. Also too bad kids these days are labeled as "Troubled" or worse if they play violent games and it sure wouldn't be allowed in schools any more. And yes - the teachers would play with us. Teachers, staff & administration.

[kallima]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

My intent was to sound absurd, but it's really not all that absurd, if we really want to get back to the roots of videogaming. Put in your quarter and you can play as long as you want, but you can't pause it to pee, can't save your game, and there were few, if any, checkpoints. If your initials were at the top of the high score list, you were the man and you could prove it. Unfortunately, unplugging the machine erased it. It was fun, though. My initials were never at the top of the list.

Um, whatever. You want to bring arcade games into this when the vast majority are talking about Atari, NES, Snes, Sega, etc, that's fine. I was simply talking about game systems and how the over abundance of checkpoints has reduced overall skill level. Compare The original Tomb Raider to the recent ones. How many more checkpoints are there? Saying you don't think it's made it easier is just silly.

Edit: and I don't know about you but If I was spending my own money in the arcade you can sure as hell bet that I had enough bladder control to wait any urges out.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by kallima

Um, whatever. You want to bring arcade games into this when the vast majority are talking about Atari, NES, Snes, Sega, etc, that's fine. I was simply talking about game systems and how the over abundance of checkpoints has reduced overall skill level. Compare The original Tomb Raider to the recent ones. How many more checkpoints are there? Saying you don't think it's made it easier is just silly.

Edit: and I don't know about you but If I was spending my own money in the arcade you can sure as hell bet that I had enough bladder control to wait any urges out.

I concur. I never said checkpoints did not make a game easier. It is more improbable that a gamer will be able to complete several difficult tasks in a row without stopping than complete them all independently. I have had that experience many times. I'm really just messing around. But I'm not being mean or critical of any opinions. Personally, I don't get a lot of satisfaction out of going through the same section of a game many, many times until I can get ten timing events exactly correct in a row. That bores me. It matters not to me, if others enjoy that, but I don't really think that's what it's all about. That's a good question, though.

What is really missed about harder games? The private satisfaction that you beat them? Or the satisfaction that others could not? Because if it's purely the former, a gamer can make nearly and current generation game as challenging as desired. Or is it something else?

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by FREYMAX 3D

...We went through Quake, Quake II, and Quake III Arena Servers...

Quake? Pffft. Real men used to play:

[kallima]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

What is really missed about harder games? The private satisfaction that you beat them? Or the satisfaction that others could not? Because if it's purely the former, a gamer can make nearly and current generation game as challenging as desired. Or is it something else?

Well, I don't game as competitively as before and most of my gamer friends now have children which takes up a lot of their time so I'll answer your question speaking out of both sides of my mouth.

When I was younger, it was purely for bragging rights. As an adult, I honestly want to be challenged. If I wanted mindless repetition, I'd play FarmVille.

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

Has anyone beaten Back To The Future for NES? I was only able to finish 75% of the game and couldn't advance any further because it got too difficult. As for the NES, it kinda sucked because it would stop working properly after several months. I would spend a lot of time blowing air into the games and the console.