Sony Black Crush on late-2014 / early-2015 BDs

[bruceames]

Amazing that we'll probably have to have a list of UV movies that look better than their Blu-ray counterparts.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Amazing that we'll probably have to have a list of UV movies that look better than their Blu-ray counterparts.

I rented Fury on DVD, and it does not have the black crush. So, specifically, someone is messing up the BDs.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Amazing that we'll probably have to have a list of UV movies that look better than their Blu-ray counterparts.

Even the HDX titles still have loads of compression problems though.

[murphywmm]

I did think "Fury" appeared to be a bit on the dark side when I watched it. But it is far from being the worst BD in my collection.

[klauswhereareyou]

I'm starting to think what is the point of someone shooting on film if they're just going to do a DI and digitally fiddle with it to death where it preaty much doesn't look like film anyway.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Even the HDX titles still have loads of compression problems though.

Yes of course. Weighing everything together it would be a judgement call, depending on what was more bothersome. Screen size / viewing distance would be a big factor on how much the compression issues stick out, but the black crush will be equally noticeable no matter what. I guess any list would just be those titles that have better blacks on UV.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Yes of course. Weighing everything together it would be a judgement call, depending on what was more bothersome. Screen size / viewing distance would be a big factor on how much the compression issues stick out, but the black crush will be equally noticeable no matter what.

I do find that when you download the HDX titles instead of stream them that the PQ is slightly better.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I do find that when you download the HDX titles instead of stream them that the PQ is slightly better.

Yes, I have noticed that too. It would be nice if they finally roll out the Common File Format, which could mean even better bit rates.

[tama]

Out of the Fury, The Interview, and MBFW, Only the Fury looks like it may or might have an issue with contrast or black levels. While the Interview looks a bit darker is some areas on the BD it has overall better color saturation and may not be an exact for exact Master it looks like.

Same goes for MBFW, looks like possibly 2 different masters with the BD having better overall color saturation. The colors do not look quite right on the download? It has a pinkish tinge that you can see in the whites. Not sure if it would be fair or correct to compare those two.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by tama

Out of the Fury, The Interview, and MBFW, Only the Fury looks like it may or might have an issue with contrast or black levels. While the Interview looks a bit darker is some areas on the BD it has overall better color saturation and may not be an exact for exact Master it looks like.

Same goes for MBFW, looks like possibly 2 different masters with the BD having better overall color saturation. The colors do not look quite right on the download? It has a pinkish tinge that you can see in the whites. Not sure if it would be fair or correct to compare those two.

I agree, MBFW is probably two different masters. I think the UV is the old master used for the UK BD. Still, the film has never looked as dark as the new BD, not in theaters, not on VHS, DVD, or prior BDs. The bushes outside the tent at the end were always visible before, for example.

As for THE INTERVIEW, yes, the colors are deeper, but about half of the film is now almost pitch black on the BD. Faces vanish into all-consuming shadows, dark costumes show as amorphous blobs of black. The film was never meant to look like this.

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

This has me worried about Whiplash.

BD screenshots are up, btw.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Whipl...0/#Screenshots

The screenshots look good. There are some pretty dark darks throughout that film, and detail is clearly definable in the shots provided.

[tama]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

I agree, MBFW is probably two different masters. I think the UV is the old master used for the UK BD. Still, the film has never looked that dark, not in theaters, not on VHS, DVD, or prior BDs.

As for THE INTERVIEW, yes, the colors are deeper, but about half of the film is now almost pitch black on the BD. Faces vanish into all-consuming shadows, dark costumes show as amorphous blobs of black. The film was never meant to look like this.

For the first question most Masters created for VHS or DVD had there brightness/contrast boosted to compensate for poor blacks and contrast levels on display sets back then. They should not be used as a barometer as to what was or is correct. I wouldn't even try to remember what MBFW looked like in theaters. No ones memory is that exact. Could it be wrong? maybe. But it should not be judge on past outdated master that were also not 100% correct either.

And point 2 are we absolutely sure how the The Interview was intended to look? Considering it's somewhat shaky release? Would this even had been a question if not for an alternate comparison?

IMO only the FURY looks like the exact same Master used outside of black levels.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by tama

For the first question most Masters created for VHS or DVD had there brightness/contrast boosted to compensate for poor blacks and contrast levels on display sets back then. They should not be used as a barometer as to what was or is correct. I wouldn't even try to remember what MBFW looked like in theaters. No ones memory is that exact. Could it be wrong? maybe. But it should not be judge on past outdated master that were also not 100% correct either.

And point 2 or we absolutely sure how the The Interview was intended to look? Considering it's somewhat shaky release? Would this even had been a question if not for an alternate comparison?

IMO only the FURY looks like the exact same Master used outside of black levels.

I remember the bushes being visible outside the tent in MBFW. I saw the film twice in theaters (granted almost 20 years ago, but it made quite an impression). I also remember the underside of the bridge being visible in the riverboat scene. Both of those are also visible on the previous home video releases. This is the first release to be so dark.

I had never used Vudu/UV until now, and after the hassle I had with it last night, i hope I never have to use it again (there's a reason I prefer to buy discs). I saw THE INTERVIEW twice in theaters as well, and remember how it looked very clearly. This BD looks nothing like the theatrical version. I noticed it from the second scene of the film on the BD (the first is in brightly lit daylight). I thought something was off with the levels on my TV and tried adjusting it for like 10 minutes, but no matter how bright I made it, there was simply no detail in the dark areas to expose. Meanwhile, the black levels of the UV version look exactly like the version I saw in theaters only two months ago.

The best thing to do is to get the filmmakers involved. They know better than anyone how the film should look. That's what I did with the faulty BD of FRANTIC, where people were arguing with me that maybe Polanski intended the altered audio mix. I contacted his office, they confirmed that the BD was faulty, and they made Warners reissue it.

Three Sony BDs within a month of each other all with unnaturally dark black levels, none of which look like that on UV, is highly suspicious and not easily explained away.

[sjconstable]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

That's what I did with the faulty BD of FRANTIC, where people were arguing with me that maybe Polanski intended the altered audio mix.

Ah yes, that director-approved edition tackily bundled together with an unrelated film

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by sjconstable

Ah yes, that director-approved edition tackily bundled together with an unrelated film

Yep, Warners did not treat that film well. Shame it wasn't with another studio like Fox, which would have licensed it to Criterion.

[Clark Kent]

I don't believe there is any conspiracy going on by Sony to degrade picture quality on their BDs. This is more about incompetence and lack of quality control by the technicians approving these transfers. It looks like the IRE levels were possibly set wrong or inappropriately altered.

Years of downsizing have taken their toll on the major studios' home video departments. The studios don't view it as a growing source of profit and have cut staffing to the bone. Home video departments are always the first to get cut, every studio views their theatrical divisions as the prime driver of revenues.

[tama]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Yep, Warners did not treat that film well. Shame it wasn't with another studio like Fox, which would have licensed it to Criterion.

Speaking of Fox and Director Intent I remember people said The King of Comedy had issues with its black levels even though it's my understanding that transfer was approved by Scorsese and may in fact be a 4K transfer.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I don't believe there is any conspiracy going on by Sony to degrade picture quality on their BDs. This is more about incompetence and lack of quality control by the technicians approving these transfers. It looks like the IRE levels were possibly set wrong or inappropriately altered.

Years of downsizing have taken their toll on the major studios' home video departments. The studios don't view it as a growing source of profit and have cut staffing to the bone. Home video departments are always the first to get cut, every studio views their theatrical divisions as the prime driver of revenues.

I tend to think you're right. It's always easier to blame a conspiracy, when inattention is more often the cause of the problems in life.

[sjconstable]

Ironically one of my very first Blu-ray experiences back in the day was Sony's release of Silent Hill, and that had its black level/gamma too high!

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

The best thing to do is to get the filmmakers involved. They know better than anyone how the film should look. That's what I did with the faulty BD of FRANTIC, where people were arguing with me that maybe Polanski intended the altered audio mix. I contacted his office, they confirmed that the BD was faulty, and they made Warners reissue it.

It's too bad WB never offered replacements for those stuck with the faulty disc.