8K discussion thread

[LordoftheRings]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9LB...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CfZ...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoN9...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1La4...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_tq...ature=youtu.be

[Joce]

Originally Posted by cochon

Wrong!

16K is the real future!

And it's coming

https://www.pro.sony.eu/pro/lang/en/...16k-production

[cochon]

Originally Posted by Joce

And it's coming

https://www.pro.sony.eu/pro/lang/en/...16k-production

I know but I am pulling my hair when I see this thread and others while most people probably don't know 4k exist and others are saying 4k is not worth it.

[Joce]

Originally Posted by cochon

I know but I am pulling my hair when I see this thread and others while most people probably don't know 4k exist and others are saying 4k is not worth it.

..and when majority of people are still watching their DVD on their 65 inch 4K screen

[cochon]

^^^majority? I think there are still lots of SD and 720 sets in use.

[Alfred E. Neumann]

100k is the future.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Bonus:

Colour Castle - Love Addict (Miguel Campbell Remix) (INFINITY) #enjoybeauty - YouTube

Now that’s ^ two fine Bezier curves (HDR grading joke for those in the know)!
The videos and metaphors on Blu-ray.com today have distracted me from more serious pursuits, like figuring out now how to safely take down all the Christmas decorations I got carried away putting up in the first place. Next year I think I go minimalist.

[LordoftheRings]

It's a . . . music remix. ...In the good traditional Christmas holiday spirit.

[mysticwaterfall]

Really, 32k is the true future, because that's roughly the resolution of the human eye

To be serious though, as I've said in other threads, were not going have to worry about 8K for a while, and even then there's going to be little to no 8K content. We have a hard enough time getting 4K content.

[koberulz]

4K isn't distinguishable to 99% of the population, because they don't have a big enough screen, sit too far away, and don't pay enough attention. It's a 'home theatre nerd' format. 8K is a 'rich home theatre nerd' format.

[CasualKiller]

Sigh

Guess I'll return the 4K I just bought and wait for one of these

[B-52 Bass]

Smh, when I heard about this last year I just don't understand.
Just one more thing my wallet hates

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by B-52 Bass

Smh, when I heard about this last year I just don't understand.
Just one more thing my wallet hates

If I was in marketing, I’d be thinking a step ahead by having in-house legal help with filing the patents…..https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1512130917 ,
while I played with designing a pretty new logo so as to woo your wallet open.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by Joce

And it's coming



https://www.pro.sony.eu/pro/lang/en/...16k-production

This is crazy.

[Staying Salty]

https://www.cnet.com/news/why-4k-isn...r-resolutions/

But already there are prototypes and rumors of 8K televisions. The new HDMI 2.1 specification supports 10K. And while these resolutions are overkill in actual TVs -- even 4K resolution is basically at the limit of human visual acuity at normal screen sizes and seating distances -- we do need higher resolutions in other kinds of gear. Here's a few examples:
VR
360
PCs and gaming

Since I am leaning towards a 55 inch for my next display, I don’t see a 8K in my future.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

This is crazy.

Time to get the band back together for another jam…..

SMPTE JAM 2013 - Resolution Blues - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

https://www.cnet.com/news/why-4k-isn...r-resolutions/

Since I am leaning towards a 55 inch for my next display, I don’t see a 8K in my future.

In the future, I expect they’ll eventually be producing rollable OLED screens - http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/engli...nch-oleds-2020 much larger than 75”.

[jeff_rigby]

Memory manufacturers Micron and Samsung are talking a new console ~Holiday 2018 with VR and 8K video mentioned. I'm assuming it's 4K 3D = 8k which could be supported with 8k Glassless TV using HEVC multi-view with depthmap. Sony is also big on eye tracking and I expect a UHD camera coming with a 2018 PS4 that will support eye tracking at living room distances.


The Micron Game Console chart lower right has GDDR6 in game consoles considerably before 2020. The chart deliberately does not have any dates between 2015 and 2020 but if you chart it yourself it's almost a lock for Holiday 2018 which is what Efficientgaming.eu Tier 4 power caps for UHD media Jan 1, 2019 imply.

Then you have a recent Samsung post on GDDR6 mentioning game consoles:

8K Resolution Using Less Power
Effortlessly processing complicated data with greater speed, such as 3D graphics or 8K-resolution video, the Samsung GDDR6 still offers outstanding efficiency, using less power than GDDR5.

Ultra-Fast, Up to 768 GB/s at 384 I/O

With data rates nearly twice as fast as the previous generation, the Samsung GDDR6 offers trailblazing speed for high-resolution video and graphics-intensive 3D games and applications.

From 2012, Sony CTO plans (8K @ 300FPS) for the PS4 have to wait 5 years (2013+5=2018)
3D graphics or 8K resolution Video = 4K per eye @ 120 FPS VR or Glassless 4K 3D on 8K TV.

2010 Sony whitepaper mentioned 8K TVs displaying 5 1080P 60FPS video streams (300FPS) with eye tracking and eye attention to one of the streams has it moved to the central larger window. Also video processing for 5 views to support glassless 3D on the 8K TV. The HEVC Multi-view plus depthmap codec is designed to support all.

Sony will be shipping 8K TVs 2020 (Console supporting 8K needs to on the market before 2020)
Foveated rendering (requires eye tracking) massively reduces the GPU load for 4K VR or even 4K 3D on a glassless 3D 8K TV if the PS4 has a UHD Camera that can also eye track. Sony has already shown a eye tracking camera.

Two new PS4s Holiday 2018 and the PS5 Post 2021

PS4 Will Probably Reach 100 Million In 2019, PS5 And Next Xbox Tentatively Coming In 2021 – IDC Analyst

The Virtual Reality Industry Forum (VRIF) announced the general availability of its first set of VR industry guidelines. It will present them during CES 2018 next month as part of a two-hour masterclass. Topics included in the guidelines include VR content production, distribution, security and consumption, with a focus on the delivery ecosystem of 360-degree video with three degrees of freedom (3DOF). They also incorporate: documentation of cross-industry interoperability points, based on ISO MPEG's Omnidirectional Media Format (OMAF); best industry practices for production of VR360 content, with an emphasis on human factors such as motion sickness; and security considerations for VR360 streaming, including user privacy and content protection.

Other topics to be addressed in 2018 by VRIF include six degrees of freedom (6DOF), live VR services and support for high dynamic range (HDR). The group will outline its 2018 roadmap and showcase VR demonstrations from Fraunhofer and Qualcomm during its CES event, with speakers from Ericsson, Intel, Irdeto, Sky, TNO, Greenlight Insights and others.

First set of VR industry guidelines

First comes HDMI 2.1
GPUs with minimum 2-10 TF common (AMD slide with sweet spot for VR)
Foveated rendering (Polaris and newer)
HEVC + Depthmap* (requires GPU for depthmap which requires GPU protection; ARM and Vega GPU or later)
Content protection (some content may only require trusted boot or none at all like Facebook or Youtube)
Content (all UHD; Game, live, cloud served, Blu-ray)

* HEVC + Depthmap is a UHD standard. Anything UHD IPTV, which according to Sony can start @ 720P or 1080P + HDR and if it includes 3D must use a Depthmap for the 50% bandwidth savings.

The UHD Blu-ray drive speed of 6X already makes provision for 4k 3D using Depthmap.

Efficientgaming.eu has two new UHD Media power tiers for 2019. Since Sony uses the GPU for media codecs and that requires DRM which current and past designs can not provide, they must use Infinity Fabrics NoC and DRM. Many have questioned why Sony who has a UHD license for Game Console, PC and PC drive has not yet used it. Will the new Sony consoles and applicable PCs support 4K 3D and VR.?

[jeff_rigby]

My take on 8K:

Sony has a UHD BDA license for Game Consoles, it's the embedded license which also works for stand alone UHD Blu-ray players. They also have a UHD BDA license for PC player software and Drive but they have not used those yet.

Everyone assumed (includes me) Sony wanted the synergy with UHD Blu-ray to sell their TVs and that 4K TVs would help make them profitable. Turns out that Sony saw 4K as low hanging fruit that the Korean and Chinese manufacturers could also support and do it cheaper so they; Sony, Panasonic and Sharp decided to concentrate on 8K TVs. While Sharp is now shipping a high end 8K TV; Sony and Panasonic will ship 8K TVs 2020. The touted feature of 8K TVs is glassless 3D including multi-view, both of which are a 4K 3D stream using HEVC multi view plus depthmap before being processed for the TV or processed in the TV.

Sharp, Panasonic and Sony produced several papers for UHD Blu-ray stressing the UHD Blu-ray digital bridge. The digital bridge requires real time HEVC transcoding from 4k to 1080P AVC and HDCP 2.2 encryption for streaming over a home network. At the same time we have VR media and 4K 3D which will be supported with HEVC Multi-view plus depthmap which requires 50% more bandwidth than 4K. UHD Blu-ray drive speeds are 6X, 50% greater than is needed for 4K but exactly what is needed for 4K 3D or VR media.

UHD 3D and UHD digital bridge require massive processing power, in the short term seen only in game console GPUs. Including HEVC Multi-view plus depthmap in a TV exceeds current TV power caps. I don't believe any UHD Blu-ray player on the market can support a UHD Digital bridge or HEVC multi-view plus depthmap but some 2019 PCs or game consoles with Infinity Fabric could support both. And I think we now know why Sony has not released UHD PC Player software or included support in PS4s for UHD Blu-ray. They use the PS4 GPU for codecs which without Infinity fabric are not DRM secure but after 2019 using Infinity fabric will be DRM secure and those GPUs with NoC can support HEVC multi-view plus depthmap which will be the 8K mentioned in the Samsung GDDR6 memory site and the Micron GDDR6 site for denser VR starting late 2018 or early 2019 for game consoles.

Sony must have media support at any cost for 8K TVs shipping 2020. A 2019 UHD Game Console Shipping 2019 and using the GPU for Codecs supporting HEVC Multi-view plus depthmap is a must. The 2012 Sony CTO paper on the PS4 stressed 300FPS @ 8K as a future PS4 feature. 180 FPS ( current PS4 Pro) to 240 FPS is all that is needed for VR but 5 view 1080P @ 60FPS streams for multi-view require 300 FPS.

[tjritter79]

You have people even now, videophiles, who say the difference between 1080 and 4K is barely negligible. The difference between 4K & 8K will be just as minute' to the naked eye. While 4K fits well in the home, to really notice it you need a screen at least 55". The advent of HDR/DolbyVision was developed so that the sales of 4K would get a kickstart. 8K for most homeowners is overkill on a grand scale. Fewer people interested = less sales = the development of this technology will remain relatively expensive. 8K will SELL to theaters, business and industries who will rely on the larger, sharper display. It will be but a niche market on the home side. Much like how $1K video cards in PC's generate 240fps or more in gaming....and who here has those?