Apocalypse Now 4K UHD (1979)

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Guydowood

Attachment 216642

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let Walter Murch work his magic on a Dolby Atmos remix!!!!!!!!

This film has always been used to test the waters with advancements in audio mixing and technology starting with one of the first, if not the first split surround 5.1 mixes during its 70mm roadshow run. Murch has been involved in each and every tweak to this day.

[Alister_M]

It'll be 5.1 unless Studio Canal decide to break their run of only offering stereo and 5.1 mixes on UHD, unless there's been an Atmos disc that I've forgotten.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Alister_M

It'll be 5.1 unless Studio Canal decide to break their run of only offering stereo and 5.1 mixes on UHD, unless there's been an Atmos disc that I've forgotten.

Nah, 5.1 and DV and bad compression

[Synchg]

hopefully it'll actually look different and not like this false advertising comparison pics non-sense from the 2010 blu ray release

https://www.thedigitalbits.com/featu...-now?showall=1

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/professi...ase-study.html

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Isn't this being done by American Zoetrope and their mastering team? They did the HDR grades on new 4k restorations. Wouldn't Coppola have a say in this? He seems hands on with his babies, even moreso than Cameron. If he wants Atmos, it will happen. If he still wants 2.39:1, this is what we'll get.

[captainsolo]

Dial back the DNR of the current HD master and the 1080p experience would be better. A proper 4K scan of the theatrical seperate from the Redux-ized process would be essential as the 2001 and onwards releases have all been reconstructed from the Redux version.

Walter Murch must be consulted on this. And I don't know if this is a case that calls for Atmos.
But the sound should be properly presented as originally intended. None of the home versions really do it properly as far as I can tell, but the best sounding overall to me is still arguably Murch's first attempt to bring the full 70mm mix experience to the home market via the 1991 letterboxed Laserdisc, where he merely brought it through a Dolby ProLogic encoder and fed the track relatively straight through. This was the first release since the 70mm engagements to have surround information. The 1979 35mm release prints were a separate stereo only mix since the matrix process wasn't fully nailed down for most locations and/or most theaters had badly arranged surrounds. Thus theaters would play it in stereo and any surround information pulled out by a decoder was merely channel leakage. And then there were the mono prints as well.

The later 1997 ac3 5.1 reissue was the same but it seemed slightly lesser somehow in impact than the older disc. Maybe it's just my ears playing tricks on me but I still love that old 1991 disc. Either way I'd argue the best sonic experiences are still the 1991 and 1997 issues. The 1999 theatrical cut DVD should have the same ac3 track. Redux was a new mix and isn't quite the same.

Who knows, perhaps elements of the legendary five hour rough cut will appear this time round.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Dial back the DNR of the current HD master and the 1080p experience would be better. A proper 4K scan of the theatrical seperate from the Redux-ized process would be essential as the 2001 and onwards releases have all been reconstructed from the Redux version.

Walter Murch must be consulted on this. And I don't know if this is a case that calls for Atmos.
But the sound should be properly presented as originally intended. None of the home versions really do it properly as far as I can tell, but the best sounding overall to me is still arguably Murch's first attempt to bring the full 70mm mix experience to the home market via the 1991 letterboxed Laserdisc, where he merely brought it through a Dolby ProLogic encoder and fed the track relatively straight through. This was the first release since the 70mm engagements to have surround information. The 1979 35mm release prints were a separate stereo only mix since the matrix process wasn't fully nailed down for most locations and/or most theaters had badly arranged surrounds. Thus theaters would play it in stereo and any surround information pulled out by a decoder was merely channel leakage. And then there were the mono prints as well.

The later 1997 ac3 5.1 reissue was the same but it seemed slightly lesser somehow in impact than the older disc. Maybe it's just my ears playing tricks on me but I still love that old 1991 disc. Either way I'd argue the best sonic experiences are still the 1991 and 1997 issues. The 1999 theatrical cut DVD should have the same ac3 track. Redux was a new mix and isn't quite the same.

Who knows, perhaps elements of the legendary five hour rough cut will appear this time round.

The AC-3 encoded audio on the special edition laserdisc, unfortunately when they were still cropping the ratio to 2.0:1, was based off the split stereo surround 5.1 70mm mix from the 1970's. It's been the basis for every mix thus far by Murch.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Who knows, perhaps elements of the legendary five hour rough cut will appear this time round.

I have a copy, it was on the Internet forever (and maybe still is). Trust me, the theatrical is the best version.

[OutOfBoose]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Who knows, perhaps elements of the legendary five hour rough cut will appear this time round.

Only if in better quality than what's available on internet. Certainly not a version for general watch, but still interesting material for AN enthusiasts.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Dial back the DNR of the current HD master and the 1080p experience would be better. A proper 4K scan of the theatrical seperate from the Redux-ized process would be essential as the 2001 and onwards releases have all been reconstructed from the Redux version.

Walter Murch must be consulted on this. And I don't know if this is a case that calls for Atmos.
But the sound should be properly presented as originally intended. None of the home versions really do it properly as far as I can tell, but the best sounding overall to me is still arguably Murch's first attempt to bring the full 70mm mix experience to the home market via the 1991 letterboxed Laserdisc, where he merely brought it through a Dolby ProLogic encoder and fed the track relatively straight through. This was the first release since the 70mm engagements to have surround information. The 1979 35mm release prints were a separate stereo only mix since the matrix process wasn't fully nailed down for most locations and/or most theaters had badly arranged surrounds. Thus theaters would play it in stereo and any surround information pulled out by a decoder was merely channel leakage. And then there were the mono prints as well.

The later 1997 ac3 5.1 reissue was the same but it seemed slightly lesser somehow in impact than the older disc. Maybe it's just my ears playing tricks on me but I still love that old 1991 disc. Either way I'd argue the best sonic experiences are still the 1991 and 1997 issues. The 1999 theatrical cut DVD should have the same ac3 track. Redux was a new mix and isn't quite the same.

Who knows, perhaps elements of the legendary five hour rough cut will appear this time round.

The DNR is in the DCP

[kristoffer]

But only in the extended cut, right!?

[HeavyHitter]

They really need to go back to the ON. According to a former Digital Bits interview, the negative was in too poor of condition so they went with the IP. Still, I don't have a good feeling about this on the compression side of things even if it's a great transfer (or 'restoration' should they go the ON route).

The BD is not optimal as there seems to be some DNR and the low bit rate on such a longer movie doesn't help either. With that said, it looks okay projected.

[Geoff D]

I remember reading that too, but reading between the lines it was only in "too poor a condition" to restore it for the time & money they had so they used an IP in much better condition, but there's no way that that negative is so far gone that it's unusable, not with today's tech.

Gonna cost a lot of money to restore it but then the 4K 16-bit restorations of all those other movies recently done by StudioCanal didn't come cheap, so if Zoetrope wanna skimp on the restoration again then maybe SC can step in.

[Fat Phil]

Ay, we've seen this song and dance before. Most recently with In the Heat of the Night but things change, tech improves etc etc

[Geoff D]

TBH I was surprised that it got "restored" from an IP even back then, sure it was 10 years ago but that wasn't the Dark Ages. The Godfather had been restored in 4K a few years before that from a negative that was literally falling apart in their hands so it's not like Coppola was a stranger to this sort of thing - but then Paramount paid for that (with the work carried out by RAH at Warners' MPI facility) and so I get the feeling that when it came to Coppola having to spend his own $$$ to properly restore AN he chickened out.

BUT, as I said upthread, if the gorgeous new transfer for Tucker is any indication then hopefully Zoetrope will do the right thing with AN this time.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The AC-3 encoded audio on the special edition laserdisc, unfortunately when they were still cropping the ratio to 2.0:1, was based off the split stereo surround 5.1 70mm mix from the 1970's. It's been the basis for every mix thus far by Murch.

In 1997 they apparently made a 5.1 SR master which was then used to make the LD ac3 track. Then that was used as the basis of the Redux mix along with many tweaks, changes and EQ differences.

What I was saying is that I still lean towards preferring Murch's first attempt to bring the 70mm mix to video on the 1991 prologic only version. Either way though they both sound great and I'd argue better than the BD's lossless audio track.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

In 1997 they apparently made a 5.1 SR master which was then used to make the LD ac3 track. Then that was used as the basis of the Redux mix along with many tweaks, changes and EQ differences.

What I was saying is that I still lean towards preferring Murch's first attempt to bring the 70mm mix to video on the 1991 prologic only version. Either way though they both sound great and I'd argue better than the BD's lossless audio track.

Outside of the 70mm roadshow showings in specially wired auditoriums for the stereo left/right side surrounds and baby boom LFE channel, the 5.1 AC-3 lossy track was the only way we could finally get a close approximation of that mix. Murch tweaked it further since the original 5.1 mix had some errors and was cut on more primative gear in a rush.

I loved how the helicopter in the opening sequence circled around the room as in the 70mm mix. You couldn't get that in the ProLogic stereo version.

[Old Bones]

I know lots of you don't care for the "Redux" but I want both versions

[GKintz]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

In 1997 they apparently made a 5.1 SR master which was then used to make the LD ac3 track. Then that was used as the basis of the Redux mix along with many tweaks, changes and EQ differences.

Given the ongoing discussion of AN's 5.1 track, for those interested in the original mix (including how the original full track masters were almost lost) and further mix refinements including those for Redux, this article is highly recommended:

https://www.mixonline.com/recording/...w-redux-373389

[BNex99]

I don't know much about the various audio mixes, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the OCN was actually re-conformed to the Redux cut in 2001, and that's why subsequent releases of the original version were rebuilt using the Redux materials. But don't quote me on that

Since it's a significant part of the film's history, I would understand wanting the Redux cut included, but I personally prefer the original.