Sony returning to BD-R?

[infiniteCR]

I'm more curious about the temperature ranges that can actually cause failure.


I've never had a DVD-R fail to read, even 15 years later after being kept in a garage, so I'm not sure how practical the fear is in anycase.

[Ricky G]

Can someone post a picture of the difference between BD-R and Blu-Ray. I have read the descriptions from this thread and I tried to look online. Just want to know what to avoid. Thanks!

[ecruteak]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

I'm more curious about the temperature ranges that can actually cause failure.


I've never had a DVD-R fail to read, even 15 years later after being kept in a garage, so I'm not sure how practical the fear is in anycase.

I own discs which are almost 20 years old. Still yet to experience disc rot or playback failure.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by Ricky G

Can someone post a picture of the difference between BD-R and Blu-Ray. I have read the descriptions from this thread and I tried to look online. Just want to know what to avoid. Thanks!

I don't think you are going to find a burned disc on a shelf in a store, so I don't think visual cues will really be that helpful.

On the artwork, they can't use the "blu-ray" logo, so they will say "blu-ray disc" instead, in some fairly standard font (I think it's Arial?). And inside, the bottom of the disc will be a different color, sort of a brownish-purple.

There's a thread that lists individual discs, that is a good point of reference, and also tells you which labels might potentially be releasing a burned disc rather than a pressed one. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=287883

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by Ricky G

Can someone post a picture of the difference between BD-R and Blu-Ray. I have read the descriptions from this thread and I tried to look online. Just want to know what to avoid. Thanks!

Outside of the disc itself it seems that BD-R releases are not allowed to carry the Blu-ray logo. The can say Blu-ray Disc but packaging nor product can have the trademark Blu-ray logo.

[BluProofie]

From the Sony MOD thread:

Originally Posted by akaun6899

Coming March 24th, all pressed:

Godspell:https://www.amazon.com/Godspell-Blu-...ies-tv&sr=1-13

Little Women (1994):https://www.amazon.com/Little-Women-...ies-tv&sr=1-14

Murder in Greenwich Village: https://www.amazon.com/Murder-Greenw...ustomerReviews

So more pressed releases are coming, meaning this thread should be locked.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

So more pressed releases are coming, meaning this thread should be locked.

They also updated the artwork for the disc that prompted the thread, to include the blu-ray logo.

[DukeTogo84]

Originally Posted by Cliff

I guess you misunderstood MY post. The cost of production the producer of a disc is in direct correlation to the cost to consumer. I don't know why I'd need to read neoreloaded's take on the matter when it's my job to already know "the matter."

Nobody knows everything. Just because you're job is to already "know", doesn't mean you can't learn and grow within your profession. I feel like you have an opportunity to grow and you're wasting it.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Cliff

I guess you misunderstood MY post. The cost of production the producer of a disc is in direct correlation to the cost to consumer. I don't know why I'd need to read neoreloaded's take on the matter when it's my job to already know "the matter."

In my opinion, this is a disingenuous framing of the issue.

Past the breakeven point (traditionally 1000 discs, but some replicators have allowed 500, and a major studio seems like it'd be in a good position to get a replicator to do this for them), pressed discs are cheaper. In fact, I've seem some companies say that they'll switch from BD-R to a pressed batch of 1000 if more than 300 presales are accrued (which raises the further complication of actual sales - if MSRP-times-sales for pressed discs is greater than MSRP-times-sales for burned discs, that shifts the math of what the "breakeven" point in terms of actual profit is....).

Yes, if you only want to make 50 discs, BD-R is cheaper overall by far because 50 discs is not nearly enough to amortize the glass master creation expense required for pressed discs. No one has ever questioned this, and this has been explicitly acknowledged in my and others' replies. Your continued attempt to use this info as some kind of trump card is tiring. No one doubts that the cost per disc to press 50 discs is more than the cost per disc to burn 50 BD-Rs - but no one has EVER pressed just 50 discs or a similarly absurd small number, so no customer has EVER been forced to pay the high resulting MSRP of such a scenario. That scenario just does not exist.

What is implicit in this price conversation, which you either don't recognize or purposefully dance around, is that it seems unlikely that such small numbers of discs would truly be sold for the types of films we're talking about here, hence making your strawman irrelevant. Look at what types of niche films Kino and Shout Factory are regularly pressing; hell, look at what Code Red and ClassicFlix and so on are pressing. Or look at the absolute dreck that Echo Bridge is managing to press and get on Wal-Mart shelves. And none of those companies have the position within the industry that large studios like Paramount and Lionsgate have (leading to better partnerships and deals in both manufacturing and distribution). And those small companies also frequently have the added expense of large licensing costs, an expense not faced by the large studios that own their films outright. Yet somehow we're supposed to think that poor Paramount can't move 500+ copies of popular mainstream films with pop culture significance.

Two illustrative examples: 1) Packing a single copy of a film into the new release shipments sent every Tuesday to every Walmart in the country would already be 4500+ copies. 2) Many of the new-release films that Lionsgate is releasing on BD-R (or sometimes just DVD) are somehow able to sustain pressed Blu-ray releases in Canada, a country with 1/9th or so the population.

And finally, your continued 'appeal to authority' is tiring. You barely addressed my prior points - you just repeated your one main talking point and then deferred to yourself as the industry insider and therefore the correct one. I'm not of the habit of constantly flouting my credentials, but I'm a professional in the computer & electrical engineering field, have degrees in ECE and mathematics, and am more than capable of discussing these matters, from a technical and an economic perspective. But I don't expect ANYONE to care about these things when reading my posts - my post's point should be clear regardless of whose mouth (fingers) it is coming from.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Cliff

I guess you misunderstood MY post. The cost of production the producer of a disc is in direct correlation to the cost to consumer. I don't know why I'd need to read neoreloaded's take on the matter when it's my job to already know "the matter."

Just because someone works at a job doesn’t necessarily make them an infallible expert for life regarding everything they do. It doesn’t hurt to at least explore other perspectives once in awhile and be open to the POSSIBILITY of learning something new. The world, and especially the internet, are filled with experts who never think they are wrong. Would that it were so, but it’s not reality.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Just because someone works at a job doesn’t necessarily make them an infallible expert for life regarding everything they do. It doesn’t hurt to at least explore other perspectives once in awhile and be open to the POSSIBILITY of learning something new. The world, and especially the internet, are filled with experts who never think they are wrong. Would that it were so, but it’s not reality.

Oh.

The irony.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

If your only choices were between owning a BD-R or a digital copy, which would you choose?

[ecruteak]

Originally Posted by jar jar stinks

if your only choices were between owning a bd-r or a digital copy, which would you choose?

bd-r

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

If your only choices were between owning a BD-R or a digital copy, which would you choose?

Buying a pressed DVD.

[IndyMLVC]

Any sane adult would choose the disc.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Cliff

Look... believe what you want. This is, by and large, a debate based on hypotheticals, misinformation and feelings, not facts. I'm not really interested in throwing out what I know in deference to what someone else "feels." It's not an appeal to authority as much as it is an acknowledgement that my facts and someone else's feelings don't carry the same weight with me. You're certainly free to continue to disagree with me, I don't really care.

Funny, because I sure don't remember discussing my "feelings." I discussed the breakeven point, an economic concern based on mathematics and vendor information/examples. And in a prior post, I discussed the failure cases of the relevant manufacturing processes. Almost like you're again disingenuously framing the discussion....

But I do agree that there is little point to continued back-and-forth. I have laid out my case extensively, have no illusions about changing your mind in any way shape or form, and am confident of how a rational reader will interpret the various information provided.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

If your only choices were between owning a BD-R or a digital copy, which would you choose?

This seems like a two-dimensional framing of the question to me. For instance, is this a movie that I consider five stars, or is it more like a soft 3.5 with decent rewatch value? Or maybe a better way of putting it, how much value do I place on the movie vs. how much do the different options cost?

Kino puts out some weird random movies. But they get so cheap that I'm often willing to roll the dice on blind buys or movies that I have a more limited interest in. Warner Archive also has frequent sales which allow me to get a wider range than just my top favorites.

So far, none of my five star movies have been only released on burned blu-ray. There have been a few titles released which I own on DVD, but I've never seen the burned blus hit a price where I would upgrade those particular movies. So, currently, my answer is "Neither". Or I'd probably be snarky and say "Neither, because I don't want to encourage them to release burned discs." But if Sony had put out "Modern Romance" on a burned disc (and there was no Indicator disc as an alternative), I would've sucked it up and bought it, because I love that movie.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

This seems like a two-dimensional framing of the question to me. For instance, is this a movie that I consider five stars, or is it more like a soft 3.5 with decent rewatch value? Or maybe a better way of putting it, how much value do I place on the movie vs. how much do the different options cost?

Kino puts out some weird random movies. But they get so cheap that I'm often willing to roll the dice on blind buys or movies that I have a more limited interest in. Warner Archive also has frequent sales which allow me to get a wider range than just my top favorites.

So far, none of my five star movies have been only released on burned blu-ray. There have been a few titles released which I own on DVD, but I've never seen the burned blus hit a price where I would upgrade those particular movies. So, currently, my answer is "Neither". Or I'd probably be snarky and say "Neither, because I don't want to encourage them to release burned discs." But if Sony had put out "Modern Romance" on a burned disc (and there was no Indicator disc as an alternative), I would've sucked it up and bought it, because I love that movie.

I guess my point is that a lot of older movies will not be released in HD on physical media. I would think something is better than nothing if one feels like they need a physical copy.

[thatguamguy]

Well, yes, if you say that the movie being released is one that I "need" to own a physical copy of, I would therefore by definition buy the physical copy. Isn't that kind of a tautology?

[kraven]

a BD-R better come with a digital copy