The Spy Who Loved Me (1977)

[zen007]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Why do people always suggest things like this? I think Bill Conti's score is fantastic. It fits the film and the time period it was made perfectly and gives the film its own distinct flavour.

Because in 2021 (not 1981), it takes away from the overall experience relatively speaking:

Bill Conti - Runaway (from the motion picture "For your eyes only" 1981) - YouTube

I do not expect such a score now during a chase sequence but if you like it that is good


On the other hand, anything with Bond theme still holds up:

For Your Eyes Only [Remastered] - Submarine - YouTube

^ I like the above

[Spasmo]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Those over-the-top cartoonish elements were in Bond long before Moore took over. The Bond films were never meant to be serious spy thrillers, they were tongue-in-cheek pulp which is why things like The Spy Who Came in From the Cold were touted as being an more realistic alternative to Bond.

Exactly. I would even argue that those elements were in the Fleming books long before they made it to the screen. The original novels owe more to pulp adventures than they do to realistic spy thrillers like the works of John Le Carre. Outlandish villains, crazy henchmen, action set pieces, OTT plots, gadgets, suggestive nicknames, voluptuous women, and of course sex, sex, sex. All these things can be traced back to Fleming. And like the Bond films, Fleming's books were also criticized by contemporary reviewers for being silly and not realistic.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by zen007

Because in 2021 (not 1981), it takes away from the overall experience relatively speaking:

I don't know what you mean by "relatively speaking" but it's a film from 1981 with a contemporaneous score and it does what it was intended to do. It doesn't take away from the overall experience any more than the hairstyles or clothing seen in the film.

It's such an ignorant conceit that people always seem to want to arbitrarily replace musical scores without fully understanding how they interconnect with the sound mixing, editing and other post-production elements of filmmaking.

[zen007]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I don't know what you mean by "relatively speaking" but it's a film from 1981 with a contemporaneous score and it does what it was intended to do. It doesn't take away from the overall experience any more than the hairstyles or clothing seen in the film.

Relative speaking implies relative to other old Bond films including from the 60s and 70s

It's such an ignorant conceit that people always seem to want to arbitrarily replace musical scores without fully understanding how they interconnect with the sound mixing, editing and other post-production elements of filmmaking.

I care about what can potentially improve a film

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

The trouble with Diamonds are Forever is that they had to spend so much on Connery's salary that the rest of the film suffers. It looks cheap and scaled down and not in a good way like For Your Eyes Only. That and Connery just looks bored. Moonraker has more going for it. The luxurious sets. Moore is on fire. The John Barry score. Hugo Drax is iconic. Jaws! Moonraker is a shitload of fun in all the ways that Diamonds are Forever is a chore to get through.

Jill St. John is fire though. Pure fire.

Moonraker is a film that rates as lesser to me because of the juvenile "humor" in it--- remember the awful sequence in OCTOPUSSY when Moore stares down a tiger and says "sit!" and then swings on a vine with a Tarzan yell?

Moonraker has several scenes like that and the absolute low point is the embarrassing Venice sequence that ends with the would be pursuers falling off their boats as birds do double takes.... awful.
I also didn't care for JAWS becoming a villain played strictly for laughs.. he was actually menacing for a good deal of TSWLM....

However Moonraker does have a wonderful John Barry musical score, some amazing set designs, and some exciting action sequences.

I've said it before, but ALL of the Bond films have good stuff in them and I don't hate any of them. Just some are great, some are good, and a few are "pretty good".

I rank Moonraker above The World Is Not Enough, Die Another Day, Spectre, Quantum Of Solace, and The Living Daylights.

[Martoto]

TSWL is riddled with silly dated humour. "Women drivers?"

The fish inside the lotus.

And the way the whole revenge plot with triple x is handled is ludicrous.

Jaws is never scarier than when he's wearing that big head costume in the carnival in MR. Before he gets whisked away by a conga line of sex people.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by AKORIS

I rank Moonraker above The World Is Not Enough

Word

Originally Posted by AKORIS

Die Another Day

Yusss

Originally Posted by AKORIS

Spectre

You know it

Originally Posted by AKORIS

Quantum Of Solace

Right on

Originally Posted by AKORIS

and The Living Daylights.

Whaaa????

[AKORIS]

Lol… I know a lot of people love The Living Daylights! It just seemed very run of the mill for to me. There was the total lack of a memorable villain and with the exception of the terrific opening sequence, the action scenes were seriously lacking. Hate the theme song too!

Dalton seemed stiff in the role, I liked him much better in his
Next attempt at 007

[DR Herbert West]

Yeah, the villains are pretty weak.

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by Martoto

TSWL is riddled with silly dated humour. "Women drivers?"

The fish inside the lotus.

And the way the whole revenge plot with triple x is handled is ludicrous.

Jaws is never scarier than when he's wearing that big head costume in the carnival in MR. Before he gets whisked away by a conga line of sex people.

If you’re suggesting that TSWLM has just as
Much silly humor as Moonraker I’m just going to
respectfully disagree and leave it at that

[CreasyBear]

They're both silly and that's why I love them. Spy holds together better as a film, but they're both equally and gleefully goofy.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by AKORIS

Lol… I know a lot of people love The Living Daylights! It just seemed very run of the mill for to me. There was the total lack of a memorable villain and with the exception of the terrific opening sequence, the action scenes were seriously lacking. Hate the theme song too!

Dalton seemed stiff in the role, I liked him much better in his
Next attempt at 007

I prefer to say he was intense rather than stiff.

I thought it was a great blend of classic Bond stuff (the chase scene with the updated Aston Martin); authentic espionage (the defection sequence - the only part of the film taken from the source material); and intense action sequences (which the last couple of Moore films were sorely lacking).

I know the villains weren't your typical OTT megalomaniacs but for a film that was striving for a bit more realism, I felt they were appropriate and effective, even though Koskov was a bit buffonish at times. It was also good to see Felix Leiter return after a 14 year absence.

[zen007]

Talking about TLD, a perfect Bond moment below (Ice Chase):

THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS | Aston Martin V8 - YouTube

Barry's score! ... As for Dalton as Bond, he is probably trying to play it closer to Fleming's book Bond.

[Martoto]

Maybe TLD suffers from being followed by the best Bond film yet.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by zen007

Barry's score! ... As for Dalton as Bond, he is probably trying to play it closer to Fleming's book Bond.

He was. Right down to smoking cigarettes which Bond hadn't done on screen since OHMSS.

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I prefer to say he was intense rather than stiff.

I thought it was a great blend of classic Bond stuff (the chase scene with the updated Aston Martin); authentic espionage (the defection sequence - the only part of the film taken from the source material); and intense action sequences (which the last couple of Moore films were sorely lacking).

I know the villains weren't your typical OTT megalomaniacs but for a film that was striving for a bit more realism, I felt they were appropriate and effective, even though Koskov was a bit buffonish at times. It was also good to see Felix Leiter return after a 14 year absence.

I completely respect the attempt to do Fleming right. I have a big issue with lousy villains--

this movie, Quantum Of Solace--weaksauce, SPECTRE-- laughable, and the worst of all-- The World Is Not Enough-- yes, there's a surprise villain towards the end but the majority of it is a ridiculous clone of Dr. Evil-- and it actually came out the same year as AUSTIN POWERS 2... what were they thinking?????

[captainsolo]

MR is severely underrated as is the entire original series. The over the top elements while a bit much at times really don't overwhelm things like most people would have you believe. For its first half it is quite serious, Bond does actual spying, the tone is dark with Corinne's demise and the glorious Bond-Drax back and forth battles. It also has an otherworldly tone to the look and feel which sets up the travel into space for the final act.
If it weren't for Jaws being made into a total goofball, the dreaded double taking pigeon, the worst of the silliness, the instantly ready US space shuttle and the laser guns in the climax I think the whole film would be better respected. Everyone admitted they went a bit too far and it was to their credit they realized this factor.
Christopher Wood wrote two amazing fully Fleming-esque novelizations for TSWLM and MR which are must reads if you can ever find them. If you don't like the sillier bits in MR then the novelization if for you.

It must be taken into context for 1979, coming off the heels of TSWLM relaunching the series and thus replaying that film's handbook which actually took a lot from YOLT, the whole film having to move to France due to the British tax laws, having to change cinematographers, having more money to play with and so on. It's a kind of film that no one makes any longer. Sure it may overindulge at times but boy is it putting the money on the screen.

FYEO's Conti core is dated in terms of its synth usage-but it is full, bombastic and absolutely brilliantly recorded. The score still sound excellent today and the film plays best on the big screen where you can hear the sound mix cranked to the max. Overall I think it's perhaps the second best non-Barry score in the series behind Martin's LALD score.


DAF is criminally underrated as part one of the Mankiewicz trilogy. Essentially it satirizes Bond a bit to encourage audiences to come back and have fun so that the film doesn't feel stale yet at its core it remains a Bond film. This knowing quality is the film's charm and gives Connery a new angle to play. Thus you get to laugh with Bond and the film and never at the films.

[trevanian]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

You're not wrong with what you say about Diamonds Are Forever, but with things like its early 70s Vegas setting and the car chase with that big red Mustang I still prefer it to Moonraker.



Moonraker > The Brosnan films.



You're missing the point entirely. Nobody is saying it isn't a cheat. It IS a cheat. But Moonraker didn't start that. Live and Let Die also has a scene where his watch turns into a buzzsaw, which nobody was informed about beforehand. And if you are to dismiss the pre-title sequences, you still have to take into account things like pulling suction cups out of his ass (figuratively speaking of course) in YOLT.

Those over-the-top cartoonish elements were in Bond long before Moore took over. The Bond films were never meant to be serious spy thrillers, they were tongue-in-cheek pulp which is why things like The Spy Who Came in From the Cold were touted as being an more realistic alternative to Bond.

I don't know if we're talking at cross purposes or what, because I'm talking about at what point it really wrecks a movie to invent/cheat your way out of it.

It's funny you mention the buzz saw watch, because that never occurred to me, possibly because I've barely made it through L&LD three times in 50 years. That is at a similar critical point late in the film, so I'd definitely consider that an outrageous transgression and not playing fair with the viewer, and I'm surprised it isn't cited in the revised version of the Brosnan book (or maybe it is and I forgot that too.)

I never thought of SPY ... COLD as an alternative to Bond, it was just another credible spy movie like COUNTERFEIT TRAITOR, but set during the cold war. COLD and FRWL are probably my favorite spy movies ever, and I think that would not be true about the latter if Bond killed Grant with a blowtorch in his briefcase that Q never bothered to show him or us. Because that would be an event that was not effectively contrived by the makers.

[Hindustani]

By far, the TSWLM is the best roger moore movie!

Pre-title sequence
Eqypt pyramid setting
Jaws
moore actually looked young

thoiught FYEO would become my fav moore bond but it just hasnt aged well. Its just too dull and boring and poorly directed. FYEO has no redeeming qualities except title song.

[KrisTheMan]

Originally Posted by trevanian

I don't know if we're talking at cross purposes or what, because I'm talking about at what point it really wrecks a movie to invent/cheat your way out of it.

It's funny you mention the buzz saw watch, because that never occurred to me, possibly because I've barely made it through L&LD three times in 50 years. That is at a similar critical point late in the film, so I'd definitely consider that an outrageous transgression and not playing fair with the viewer, and I'm surprised it isn't cited in the revised version of the Brosnan book (or maybe it is and I forgot that too.)

I never thought of SPY ... COLD as an alternative to Bond, it was just another credible spy movie like COUNTERFEIT TRAITOR, but set during the cold war. COLD and FRWL are probably my favorite spy movies ever, and I think that would not be true about the latter if Bond killed Grant with a blowtorch in his briefcase that Q never bothered to show him or us. Because that would be an event that was not effectively contrived by the makers.

But the tone of FRWL and MR is completely different. To be fare, you have to hold each film up on its own. To apply the same level of criticism to completely seperate films is grasping at straws, even if it is the same movie series. Of course pulling out a blowtorch in FRWL would not work because it's inconsistent with the narrative terms of the movie. But in MR, with the exception of the wrist dart gun, nearly all of Bond's gadgets were used without prior introduction, the cigar case X-ray, the 007 camera, the gondola/hovercraft, and the hanglider for convenient escape from Q's boat. So by the time Bond uses the explosive watch, it's narratively feasible because his resourceful access to gadgets was already established numerous times. From a storytelling perspective, the watch works in the narrative just as much as the previous events of the movie.