Southern Comfort 4K UHD (1981) (Vinegar Syndrome)

[Moonlight Shadow]

I don't mind an IP scan. I DO mind if it's another one of those shitty oversaturated Vinegar Syndrome transfers where everybody looks as if he has a sunburn. Whoever is grading their 4K discs should get his eyes examined.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Moonlight Shadow

I don't mind an IP scan. I DO mind if it's another one of those shitty oversaturated Vinegar Syndrome transfers where everybody looks as if he has a sunburn. Whoever is grading their 4K discs should get his eyes examined.

Watch their restoration/preservation vid. Looks great to me

"Winding Through: SOUTHERN COMFORT" from the Vinegar Syndrome Film Archive - YouTube

[Moonlight Shadow]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Watch their restoration/preservation vid. Looks great to me

"Winding Through: SOUTHERN COMFORT" from the Vinegar Syndrome Film Archive - YouTube

Thanks. I only watched it on my cellphone but it seems to look good indeed.

[mikey horror]

This is one I had always heard praise for, but when I finally watched it, was very underwhelmed. It’s ok, but not something I’d watch regularly enough to own. It’s free to watch on You Tube if anyone wants to avoid a blind buy.

[The Rider]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

He prefers the physical qualities and look of interpositives as a whole, not the untimed part. He describes such in the clip.
Negatives aren't timed either. Again, it's preference for the look of it, not necessarily how they are or aren't color graded.

Which physical qualities and look? Photochemical grading is a very important part of an interpositive.

It makes little sense to switch to an interpositive if you have access to the camera negative. Apart from the original intended colors. I think Southern Comfort remains one of the few exceptions, precisely because the camera negative is lost.

For The Horrible Dr Hichcock, for example, they use the camera negative.

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=33782

[The Rider]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Watch their restoration/preservation vid. Looks great to me

"Winding Through: SOUTHERN COMFORT" from the Vinegar Syndrome Film Archive - YouTube

Two things were interesting for me here:

1. Which references did they use for the grading? Perhaps an older photochemical graded interpositive?

2. How do the colors compare to the Shout Factory master and what source was used back then?

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/South...0/#Screenshots

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But I think we now know why VS are using IPs lately despite having OG neg readily available for whatever movie, it's that VS' owner Ryan Emerson would seem to prefer the look of an IP scan.

I might've missed something, but the majority of the titles currently listed on their homepage say they're sourced from OCNs. I heard the bit in the video about Emerson describing IPs as "feathery" or whatever, but I took that more as descriptive rather than an expressed preference.

Are there titles where an OCN was available (and usable!) and Vinegar Syndrome rejected it in favor of an IP? I've been a little out of the loop lately, so I definitely could've missed some conversations.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by The Rider

Which physical qualities and look? Photochemical grading is a very important part of an interpositive.

So like, did you watch the clip? He literally describes the aspect of what he likes in the video. It has more of a feathered look to it. He's not referring to color grading at this point. I myself have an affinity for interpositives and in particular print film. Sharpness isn't everything to me, I like the thick filmic look. I get what he's going on to be honest.

It makes little sense to switch to an interpositive if you have access to the camera negative. Apart from the original intended colors.

Well the negative isn't available for this one. I recommend watching the video because I don't think you did.

I think Southern Comfort remains one of the few exceptions, precisely because the camera negative is lost.

And that's precisely why they're scanning an interpositive. There's no "I think," this information is in the video.
Nobody picked scanning the interpositive over the negative because of IP preference. It's not a timed IP because it was made as a protection master of the negative. Again, in the video.

For The Horrible Dr Hichcock, for example, they use the camera negative.

That's because the negative was available and they were able to do it that way.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by mikey horror

This is one I had always heard praise for, but when I finally watched it, was very underwhelmed. It’s ok, but not something I’d watch regularly enough to own. It’s free to watch on You Tube if anyone wants to avoid a blind buy.

This is not a blind buy movie unless you adore Cronenberg, and if you adore Cronenberg you've surely seen it already anyway.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

This is not a blind buy movie unless you adore Cronenberg, and if you adore Cronenberg you've surely seen it already anyway.

You’re in the Southern Comfort thread.

[Kyle15]

Southern Comfort is Cronenberg's underrated masterpiece.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Southern Comfort is Cronenberg's underrated masterpiece.

Still can't get over Walter Hill taking full credit. NOT a good look.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Southern Comfort is Cronenberg's underrated masterpiece.

The first of Cronenberg's planned Compass Quadrilogy. First came Southern Comfort, then we had Eastern Promises, and next Western Duplicity, and finally Northern Malaise.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

I might've missed something, but the majority of the titles currently listed on their homepage say they're sourced from OCNs. I heard the bit in the video about Emerson describing IPs as "feathery" or whatever, but I took that more as descriptive rather than an expressed preference.

Are there titles where an OCN was available (and usable!) and Vinegar Syndrome rejected it in favor of an IP? I've been a little out of the loop lately, so I definitely could've missed some conversations.

Majority, sure. Even the porn comes off of OG neg where available. But their recent UHD of Existenz is from an IP and Southern Comfort is from an IP as well. It's just interesting how two came along at once.

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Majority, sure. Even the porn comes off of OG neg where available. But their recent UHD of Existenz is from an IP and Southern Comfort is from an IP as well. It's just interesting how two came along at once.

Sure, but they've always used IPs when they had to. The Beastmaster -- the first title in their Vinegar Syndrome Ultra line -- was sourced from an IP, for instance.

The video embedded a couple times in this thread says that the OCN for Southern Comfort is lost. So that doesn't fit with:

But I think we now know why VS are using IPs lately despite having OG neg readily available for whatever movie, it's that VS' owner Ryan Emerson would seem to prefer the look of an IP scan.

...'cause the OG neg is not readily available. Unless they're lying, but I don't know that there's any reason to think that.

The Prophecy trilogy and eXistenZ are all sourced from IPs, but is there an indication that the OCNs are readily available and they're choosing not to use them?

It just seems far more likely to me that they're resorting to IPs on occasion because that's the best available material they have to work with. If it boiled down to a personal preference for IPs, wouldn't we see most/all of their titles use IPs rather than OCNs?

[SpaceBlackKnight]

I know for The Prophecy 1-3 and eXistenZ, the best elements Paramount only had were IPs. As they were Miramax/Dimension pickups from Overseas Filmgroup and Alliance Atlantis respectively, the OCNs probably reside with Filmrise (as they own both the First Look/Overseas Filmgroup and Alliance catalogs) which I'm surprised VD didn't consult with since they work with them on a semi-regular basis.

In the case of Southern Comfort, Filmrise did not have the OCN and only carried the same IP element all releases (including the Shout BD remaster) use. Even MGM (who had home video rights from the Samuel Goldwyn/Orion side) used whatever they were given and did not have any elements of their own. It's possible that Fox (who had US theatrical rights) held the OCN at some point since the IP element minted in 2001 was most probably sourced from that.

20th Century Disney are known to be difficult with sharing elements for stuff they lost distribution rights to, and in some cases offload these elements out of their facility to other places or for destruction. It's likely they don't have it anymore since Shout confirmed TCD did not have the OCN for stuff like Point Break but did for others like Ferngully.

[SpacemanDoug]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

He prefers the physical qualities and look of interpositives as a whole, not the untimed part. He describes such in the clip.
Negatives aren't timed either. Again, it's preference for the look of it, not necessarily how they are or aren't color graded.

Wouldn't the negative still hold more detail though?

[Ellum]

Will this get a standard release like Freeway or is it strictly limited like Rad? How can I know if this will be freely available if I am only interested in a standard edition?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

Sure, but they've always used IPs when they had to. The Beastmaster -- the first title in their Vinegar Syndrome Ultra line -- was sourced from an IP, for instance.

The video embedded a couple times in this thread says that the OCN for Southern Comfort is lost. So that doesn't fit with:



...'cause the OG neg is not readily available. Unless they're lying, but I don't know that there's any reason to think that.

The Prophecy trilogy and eXistenZ are all sourced from IPs, but is there an indication that the OCNs are readily available and they're choosing not to use them?

It just seems far more likely to me that they're resorting to IPs on occasion because that's the best available material they have to work with. If it boiled down to a personal preference for IPs, wouldn't we see most/all of their titles use IPs rather than OCNs?

Yep, youre right, it's out of necessity rather than preference. And yet the comment about Emerson preferring an IP scan is still on record nonetheless, and I thought it was interesting given the sudden onslaught of IP-related UHDs they're producing.

For most indies it would seem that if second (or even third) generation material is all that was available then they've steered clear of doing a UHD so far, but great results can still be obtained so we're seeing more of them lately, Shout's Point Break being another example.

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And yet the comment about Emerson preferring an IP scan is still on record nonetheless

Sorry for harping on this, but could you point to this comment?

I heard the following in the video:

So some of everyone's favorite movies that they saw for the first time on DVD from major studios are probably from interpositive scans. They look really good. Ryan Emerson, my boss, once described it as a very feathery look whereas the actual OCN is much more sharp.

...but at least to my mind, that's a long way from "Emerson prefers IP scans over OCN scans".