NOOOO!!!(terminator)

[McCrutchy]

I've said this in other T4 threads before, but I'll elaborate here. I wasn't that keen on this film after having seen T3, but this PG-13 is a step in the wrong direction to me. A lot of people have defended the film by saying that as long as they made the best film possible, it shouldn't matter what the rating is. For any given film I would likely be in a agreement, except that this is a film from an R-rated franchise, where the previous films, especially the first two, were well within the R-territory. I'm reading a ton of posts that seem to misremember the content in those films. So just for some reminders I'll list some instances by film of R-rated content (I will exclude T3 because I only saw it once):

SPOILER ALERT

The Terminator

-The Terminator's arrival

[Show spoiler] contained a frontal nude shot (obscured by darkness) of Schwarzenegger walking towards three gang members, one of whom he dispatches with a particularly gory (but very brief) uppercut through the abdomen and rips his heart out.

-Many of the Terminator's victims are shot to death and the impact of the bullet wounds is often clearly shown, something that is very rare in a PG-13 film, and would certainly not have the same high frequency. In PG-13 films, bullet wounds are often only seen after impact and with minimal blood.

-The Terminator's flesh goes through various stages of decomposition and disfigurement in the film, and this could be accomplished, but the overall look would have to be toned down and bloodly sinew would have to be kept to a minimum.

-Most obviously,

[Show spoiler]the scene in the motel bathroom where the Terminator cuts into the flesh of his arm to adjust the joints that control his fingers, and most glaringly, his subsequent graphic removal of a damaged eyeball with a scalpel,

would never, ever be allowed in a PG-13 film.

-

[Show spoiler]The sex scene would obviously be toned down to remove nudity and thrusting.

-It goes without saying that "motherf**ker" (yes, it's in there, remember the "...smash those metal motherf**kers..." line from Reese?) and the many uses of "f**k" would be removed, including the classic scene when

[Show spoiler]the Terminator, responding to an inquisitive janitor in the motel, picks the response of "F**k you, a**hole" from a list of similarly offensive responses on his "screen".

(I LOVE that)

Terminator 2: Judgment Day

-When the T-800 (Schwarzenegger) arrives

[Show spoiler]and goes into the bar to retrieve clothing. Several violent moves, such as the explicit stabbing of a biker in the shoulder blade, the brief stabbing of the T-800 by a knife, and the tossing of one of the bikers onto a heated grill which can be explicitly heard burning his flesh (complete with screaming)

would all be toned down/removed.

-All of the shots of the T-1000 actually stabbing a human (bloodless or not) would likely be changed to trick shots, where the viewer never sees the wound actually being inflicted.

[Show spoiler]The death of the security guard at the mental hospital (the T-1000's"finger" through his eye socket and the accompanying spasms and gurgling noises, as well as the removal of the finger) would be removed or toned down significantly, as would the T-1000's dispatch of Todd (the foster dad, who received an "arm sword" to the throat, causing blood to drip from the wound and a nasty-sounding thrust back as the T-1000 reclaims it's arm).

-The blood that appears when

[Show spoiler]the T-800 cuts through the flesh of his arm in preparation to remove it

would likely be gone.

-Again bullet impacts would be non-evident, especially in the case of

[Show spoiler]Miles Dyson's death,

where multiple bullet impacts are seen and heard. The T-800's flesh and blood tearing off as he is shot at by armed guards would likely be toned down (close-ups removed).

-Again "motherf**ker" and "f**k" would be eliminated. To be fair, I can't actually remember if motherf**ker is said in T2, but Linda Hamilton says f**k a whole hell of a lot).

I'm sure there are other aspects I'm missing...but the point is that both T1 and T2 were definitely R-rated features, especially in terms of violence.

My biggest problem with this was that it was likely done ONLY for money. Not because McG or anybody else says "Well, we just made the film and didn't really think about it." The eventual existence of the oft-discussed "Unrated Director's Cut" will reveal the truth; if you made a film that happens PG-13 in the first place, why is there an "Unrated Director's Cut" at all? I guess we'll see around the Fall.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by Beast

Why should it be rated R? The original certainly wouldn't be R today.

I'd rather they just make the best movie possible, rather than simply adding in additional foul language, gore, and gratuitous nudity just to pad the film up for an R rating. Who cares what the rating is.

Wait a sec, I've only seen Terminator a handful of times, but I'm sure the dreaded "F" word is in it no less than 3 times.

A dude gets his heart ripped out.

A Cyborg cuts his own eye out and performs sugery on his arm.

There's nudity.

There's graphic and not so graphic violance.

How the heck can you say this wouldn't be rate R?

Edit: Crap, someone beat to the punch! The post previous is a bit more detailed.

[The Mr Safety]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

I don't follow.

Predator and Alien have NOTHING to do with Terminator, so why should Terminator be rated R if Alien and Predator are...?

That's like saying since Strawberry Shortcake is rated G, so too should Terminator Salvation.

Logan

Predator and Alien are franchises that are all R rated and it shows. Terminator is also a franchise of R ratings so they shouldn't make another Terminator movie unless it is R.

[Diesel]

the two original terminators would definitely still be R today
just because of the amount of F words, ignoring everything else

T2 would be a soft R imo though
the nudity in the film wouldnt warrant it (butt shot is all if i recall correctly)
the violence is definitely not over the top/gorey
but certain killings could help edge toward the R rating a little, like the step-father death, just for the visual of seeing that
that is the only killing i remember that was actually graphic
and the language (imdb lists about 18 f words) would get it an automatic R still today

you change a small amount of things, like dropping all but 1-3 Fwords and make the step-father death a little less gruesome and T2 could conceivably be pg-13 today, albeit the hardest pg-13 i can think of, but pg-13 nonetheless

the greatness of the movie is still very much intact in that altered version, its just not R anymore

now, i'm not saying that i would want those changes made nor would i hate it if they were, i'm just saying that T2 is closer to pg-13 today than people realize

[The Mr Safety]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

I must be one of the few that thought AVP2 was perfectly lit and apart from a few scenes that where meant to be extremely dark was perfectly done (in terms of lighting). Though I accept i'm in the minority here. The film though does have aliens killing babies, facehuggers attaching to young kids, people bieng suddenly and bloodily pinned to a wall, a mans facing bieng burnt off and as far as I can tell is in American rating a hard R. (In Australia it only got an MA).

Yeah I was just exaggerating a bit. It does deserve its r rating. But I think it was just to dark because in avp 1 you could see the fighting. It was just to dark for me.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by Diesel

the two original terminators would definitely still be R today
just because of the amount of F words, ignoring everything else

T2 would be a soft R imo though
the nudity in the film wouldnt warrant it (butt shot is all if i recall correctly)
the violence is definitely not over the top/gorey
but certain killings could help edge toward the R rating a little, like the step-father death, just for the visual of seeing that
that is the only killing i remember that was actually graphic
and the language (imdb lists about 18 f words) would get it an automatic R still today

you change a small amount of things, like dropping all but 1-3 Fwords and make the step-father death a little less gruesome and T2 could conceivably be pg-13 today, albeit the hardest pg-13 i can think of, but pg-13 nonetheless

the greatness of the movie is still very much intact in that altered version, its just not R anymore

now, i'm not saying that i would want those changes made nor would i hate it if they were, i'm just saying that T2 is closer to pg-13 today than people realize

Don't forget the chubby security who gets pinned to the coffee machine!

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by The Mr Safety

Yeah I was just exaggerating a bit. It does deserve its r rating. But I think it was just to dark because in avp 1 you could see the fighting. It was just to dark for me.

oh no, a lighting comment
where's logan and his bale rant comment?

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Don't forget the chubby security who gets pinned to the coffee machine!

i knew i was forgetting one
but i think that one could be in a pg-13 movie
the only thing that was graphic about his killing though is when they show the blade going into his eye (well right next to it)
and even that wasnt that bad (but the MPAA may think otherwise)

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Diesel

the two original terminators would definitely still be R today
just because of the amount of F words, ignoring everything else

T2 would be a soft R imo though
the nudity in the film wouldnt warrant it (butt shot is all if i recall correctly)
the violence is definitely not over the top/gorey
but certain killings could help edge toward the R rating a little, like the step-father death, just for the visual of seeing that
that is the only killing i remember that was actually graphic
and the language (imdb lists about 18 f words) would get it an automatic R still today

you change a small amount of things, like dropping all but 1-3 Fwords and make the step-father death a little less gruesome and T2 could conceivably be pg-13 today, albeit the hardest pg-13 i can think of, but pg-13 nonetheless

the greatness of the movie is still very much intact in that altered version, its just not R anymore

now, i'm not saying that i would want those changes made nor would i hate it if they were, i'm just saying that T2 is closer to pg-13 today than people realize

I don't disagree with you, I saw T2 when I was 8 years old and it wasn't that inappropriate for me, even at that age.

What we have to take into account however, is not our personal feelings on what is gratuitous and beyond PG-13, but what the MPAA feels is beyond PG-13...and that can be a very fine line, especially with onscreen violence and humans. Things like impact shots, blood spurts, and sound effects all have to meet certain criteria in order to pass PG-13, and most times they are either toned down or not shown. But consider whether the sum total of all those slight seconds of more realistic violence would create a more immersive T4 experience based on the plot synopsis of T4 (war between humans and machines) and the expectations set out for you by the previous Terminator films. I'm not sure you couldn't make a more convincing war between humans and machines using the leeway of R-rated violence as opposed to the somewhat generic nature of PG-13 violence.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

I don't disagree with you, I saw T2 when I was 8 years old and it wasn't that inappropriate for me, even at that age.

What we have to take into account however, is not our personal feelings on what is gratuitous and beyond PG-13, but what the MPAA feels is beyond PG-13...and that can be a very fine line, especially with onscreen violence and humans. Things like impact shots, blood spurts, and sound effects all have to meet certain criteria in order to pass PG-13, and most times they are either toned down or not shown. But consider whether the sum total of all those slight seconds of more realistic violence would create a more immersive T4 experience based on the plot synopsis of T4 (war between humans and machines) and the expectations set out for you by the previous Terminator films. I'm not sure you couldn't make a more convincing war between humans and machines using the leeway of R-rated violence as opposed to the somewhat generic nature of PG-13 violence.

i think that we will see blood on people's wounds and rest of their body but probably won't be seeing the blood-spurts
we may hear the bones breaking but we wont see their arm being ripped off
you know stuff like that
so that you still know its happening but they can get away without showing it
kind of TDK style, show everything and then cut away a split second before the actual act

thats how i can see it still having a serious amount of violence and not crossing into R

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by Diesel

i knew i was forgetting one
but i think that one could be in a pg-13 movie
the only thing that was graphic about his killing though is when they show the blade going into his eye (well right next to it)
and even that wasnt that bad (but the MPAA may think otherwise)

I think the twitching put it over the top! He was off the ground too.

[Grumpz]

I like to think that because most of the carnage will be cyborgs and robots and whatever blowing up, it's drawn a PG-13.

I have no idea what criteria gets what, but maybe it's because it's mostly machines getting the crap kicked out of them.

GO JOHN!

[Beast]

The movie was filmed for an R...

The only thing that supposedly is cut to get the PG-13 is the full-frontal nudity of the main female actress. A scene that was filmed specifically to ensure the R-rating, cause they knew that Humans Vs. Machines wasn't going to get them an R. Since it's fantasy violence. So no loss at all.

[masob98]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker85

Yeah I kind of see how this could effect a movie. Look at the latest Die Hard. It was rated PG-13 and in my opinion was probably the worst out of the four films. The only reason a studio wants a PG-13 rating is so they can increase the audiences demographic and boost revenue. It's sad. I will still see Salvation but will it have the same effect as T1 or T2 I don't know.

I thoroughly enjoyed Live Free or Die Hard and cannot see how a bunch of f-bombs and other foul language could have improved this movie. And the same goes for terminator. I think its just a ridiculous thought and its not going to keep me from watching this movie.

[SPH]

Originally Posted by Beast

The movie was filmed for an R...

The only thing that supposedly is cut to get the PG-13 is the full-frontal nudity of the main female actress. A scene that was filmed specifically to ensure the R-rating, cause they knew that Humans Vs. Machines wasn't going to get them an R. Since it's fantasy violence. So no loss at all.

Hopefully it will be on the "extended" cut on BD

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by Beast

The movie was filmed for an R...

The only thing that supposedly is cut to get the PG-13 is the full-frontal nudity of the main female actress. A scene that was filmed specifically to ensure the R-rating, cause they knew that Humans Vs. Machines wasn't going to get them an R. Since it's fantasy violence. So no loss at all.

MAJOR + 1. If that's the only thing the filmmakers had to cut to ensure a PG-13, (as one stated in the thread here already, for More ticket goers, a more wide-spread demographic, which all equals - as we know - to MORE Ticket sales & Higher grosses in the long run), then who really cares if it's R or PG-13. This would only hopefully insure the Next TERMINATOR, if indeed this is 1 of 3 for a New Trilogy. To me, it looks like it'll be pretty cool & a Dark movie, and The Dark Knight did pretty good ALL around the world with a PG-13, right folks? Also as most have said, it's mainly Human vs. Cyborg violence for the most part, so how much gore would we have to see to get a "I LOVE IT!! It was seriously GORY, arms being ripped off, someone getting shot with T-1000's Arm-Attached Cannons", to make people who want an R rating, happy? Is it really That important in the long run? Let's hold off til' some early reviews come out (www.aintitcoolnews.com usually has some Very reliable early reviews), or how about this: til We SEE The Movie!, before going on and on about the Rating. - Seeing a movie Before crying over it being an R or PG-13. What a concept, huh?

Originally Posted by SPH

Hopefully it will be on the "extended" cut on BD

-- Yea, i'm sure they'll have an Extended or "Director's Cut" so everyone can see her fully frontal. Oh joy.

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by masob98

I thoroughly enjoyed Live Free or Die Hard and cannot see how a bunch of f-bombs and other foul language could have improved this movie. And the same goes for Terminator. I think its just a ridiculous thought and its not going to keep me from watching this movie.

+1 here also. I thought it was an okay enjoyable action flick and on BLU, it kicks major butt AQ & PQ wise as well. Great Audio reference for your systems. I didn't even notice if making it an R-rated movie would have made a difference or "improved" it, as this person wrote.

[ngkf7]

Originally Posted by cvm

It is not going to be a terrible movie due to the fact it is PG-13.

You're right, it's just going to be a terrible movie. Period.

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by ngkf7

You're right, it's just going to be a terrible movie. Period.

Oh, so you must have seen it already then, right? (No? didn't think so). - Let me guess why you think that. Because "McG" directed it, and/or because it might be PG-13 & not an R-rating.

[Budke]

Originally Posted by Beast

The movie was filmed for an R...

The only thing that supposedly is cut to get the PG-13 is the full-frontal nudity of the main female actress. A scene that was filmed specifically to ensure the R-rating, cause they knew that Humans Vs. Machines wasn't going to get them an R. Since it's fantasy violence. So no loss at all.

It was just a topless scene of Moon Bloodgood dancing. It wasn't full frontal, at least from what I've read.