Master and Commander 4K UHD (2003)

[foxbat96]

Question for you audio people:
Is it possible to just mix the LFE channel from the DVD soundtrack into the LFE channel on the 4k?
Doing so would preserve the 7.1 mix plus fix the LFE without touching the other tracks. I would save the new track as FLAC (lossless) and mux it in for playing w/Kodi.
Any downsides to doing this? Would it sound off because the DVD LFE was generated from a 5.1 mix?

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by 5meohd

those infrasonics absolutely are eating up headroom and it absolutely effects how loud people can turn up their TV speaker or soundbar speaker.

So infrasonics eat up headroom even if a soundbar or TV speaker can't reproduce them? I floated that idea to someone who works in the industry and he said it makes no sense. He said that such wimpy systems would simply roll off the infrasonics, that it would have no effect. So who's right? If you're right, it would imply that they killed the infrasonics because they want to cater to the soundbar crowd that doesn't even bother to use a separate powered sub. That makes no sense to me.

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

Folks....are....overreacting. It'd be the norm for the forum, though.

Thanks for confirming what I said.

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by geomon

I don't understand this need to "upgrade" everything to Atmos. Why is that even considered an upgrade?

It sounds like you've never heard a well done Atmos track. I don't think you'd ask that question if you had.

We didn't hear footsteps over our heads back in 2003 and we liked the movie just fine.

We did indeed like movies just fine, even though they were on DVD. Going further back, we liked movies just fine when they were on LD, and used matrixed surround. That doesn't mean there shouldn't have been new, improved formats.

I've really got to find my DVD copy so I can see how the DTS on that sounds compared to this new Atmos mix.

The DVD has much better infrasonic bass.

[5meohd]

Originally Posted by RobertR

So infrasonics eat up headroom even if a soundbar or TV speaker can't reproduce them? I floated that idea to someone who works in the industry and he said it makes no sense. He said that such wimpy systems would simply roll off the infrasonics, that it would have no effect. So who's right? If you're right, it would imply that they killed the infrasonics because they want to cater to the soundbar crowd that doesn't even bother to use a separate powered sub. That makes no sense to me.

Very suprising response from someone in the industry. Its literally mastering 101 to roll off infrasonics to protect speakers and open up headroom.

Its certainly true that its less and less relevant as more and more systems deploy DSP with their own filters, but to act like it makes no sense is kinda interesting.

In fact, id say that it could be argued a lot of these modern budget systems are deploying non-defeatable compressors and peak limiters which would be triggered by those high dB infrasonics unless the limiter had a hipass filter on its listen bus.

Happy to be wrong.. but then that just means... the rolled it off.. for??? No reason at all??

Hmm.

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by 5meohd

Its literally mastering 101 to roll off infrasonics to protect speakers and open up headroom.

Hmmm. My main speakers are very large floor standing models. They're spec'd to go down to 14 Hz. They had and have enormous power handling. When I upgraded them to the Bohlender-Graebener ribbon midrange panels, the panels were wired to receive the full range bass signal. I can assure you that they had no problem with headroom. The frequencies below around 200 Hz simply rolled off. The woofers were actively biamped.

Happy to be wrong.. but then that just means... the rolled it off.. for??? No reason at all?? Hmm.

Hmm indeed! As I've said before, there would have been NO downside to maintaining the bass.

[Vertizontal]

Sorry for the lazy question, but after all the head spinning audio back n forth and for those of us that don't speak HT audio as our second language, if we've only been familiar with the BD audio to this point (and never heard the DVD with its superior low end apparently), is the best track on the UHD disc the same as the BD (across the spectrum)?? Meaning if you're only accustomed the BD audio you won't necessarily know what you're missing from the DVD (and its better sub/ow end) and the 4k disc is at least equal to the BD sonically more or less?

[Okiephile]

Received today from pleaserewind, boxed and wrapped in bubble wrap,perfection!

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by Vertizontal

is the best track on the UHD disc the same as the BD (across the spectrum)??

No. The bass on the UHD is worse than the BD. At 30 Hz, the BD bass is -17 dB. On the UHD, it's at -25 dB. At 20 Hz, the BD bass is at -35 dB. On the UHD, it's all the way down to -51 dB.

[TheeCD]

Originally Posted by RobertR

The DVD has much better infrasonic bass.

What's your take on using a lossy DTS track on your setup vs. lossless, because it seems like you're engaging in a trade off yourself to get that bass back with your muxing?

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by TheeCD

What's your take on using a lossy DTS track on your setup vs. lossless, because it seems like you're engaging in a trade off yourself to get that bass back with your muxing?

The DVD DTS track sounds very very good. Whatever fidelity loss there is would be quite subtle (in fact, I've read articles showing that few people can tell the difference between a lossy 320kps MP3 file and the uncompressed file in a blind comparison), and would be completely swamped by the considerable difference in bass.

[kishiro]

Originally Posted by foxbat96

Question for you audio people:
Is it possible to just mix the LFE channel from the DVD soundtrack into the LFE channel on the 4k?
Doing so would preserve the 7.1 mix plus fix the LFE without touching the other tracks. I would save the new track as FLAC (lossless) and mux it in for playing w/Kodi.
Any downsides to doing this? Would it sound off because the DVD LFE was generated from a 5.1 mix?

Yes, It's quite possible. I don't think it would sound 'off'. It would probably be allright. One can take the lfe-channel from the DVD, trim away -1032 ms to match the UHD. Overwrite the UHD lfe-channel, export it, and finally encode it to a new lossless DTS-HD MA 7.1 file with DTS Master Audio Suite Encoder. (or *.flac) It takes some work, but it's quite doable. I don't really see the need myself as I got a 5.1 setup. (B&W speakers and a SVS sub). The original DTS track is all I need.

Originally Posted by TheeCD

What's your [RobertR] take on using a lossy DTS track on your setup vs. lossless, because it seems like you're engaging in a trade off yourself to get that bass back with your muxing?

I can't speak for RobertR, but I can give you my unsolicited 2 cents; Yes, in theory you are engaging in a trade-off. But It's not that bad. First off; I love lossless, and wish everything was encoded losslessly. But audio-compression at high bitrates sound really transparent to the source. If you ever have done som A+B blind-testing of for instance mp3s with different compression rates versus wav, it's really hard to tell the difference once you hit 320kbit and higher. DTS is 768kbps (or sometimes 1536 kbps). In a blind test, with the same signal-chain, same dac and same mix, I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a DTS and DTS-HD Ma track (note: of the same mix that is. in this case you can easily hear the difference becuase of the neutered bass in the dts-hd ma vs dts).

[Uncle Bud]

Arrived today via Amazon undamaged. One thing that was a bit odd...my copy

[Show spoiler]came with two DCs.

F V ⌀ (zero with slash) Z H X C M U V 4 J 5 K D 3

F K 9 S 4 W Q 3 4 4 T F U R 3 3

Speaking as a Joe Average movie watcher, I was not disappointed with either PQ or sound.

[Kinsella5]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bud

Arrived today via Amazon undamaged. One thing that was a bit odd...my copy [SPOILER]came with two DCs.

F V ⌀ (zero with slash) Z H X C M U V 4 J 5 K D 3

F K 9 S 4 W Q 3 4 4 T F U R 3 3

Both were already redeemed (not by me) wanted to check them so others don't waste their time and thank you for the opportunity for people to get it.

[Uncle Bud]

Originally Posted by Kinsella5

Both were already redeemed (not by me) wanted to check them so others don't waste their time and thank you for the opportunity for people to get it.

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by kishiro

Yes, It's quite possible. I don't think it would sound 'off'. It would probably be allright. One can take the lfe-channel from the DVD, trim away -1032 ms to match the UHD. Overwrite the UHD lfe-channel, export it, and finally encode it to a new lossless DTS-HD MA 7.1 file with DTS Master Audio Suite Encoder. (or *.flac) It takes some work, but it's quite doable. I don't really see the need myself as I got a 5.1 setup. (B&W speakers and a SVS sub). The original DTS track is all I need.



I can't speak for RobertR, but I can give you my unsolicited 2 cents; Yes, in theory you are engaging in a trade-off. But It's not that bad. First off; I love lossless, and wish everything was encoded losslessly. But audio-compression at high bitrates sound really transparent to the source. If you ever have done som A+B blind-testing of for instance mp3s with different compression rates versus wav, it's really hard to tell the difference once you hit 320kbit and higher. DTS is 768kbps (or sometimes 1536 kbps). In a blind test, with the same signal-chain, same dac and same mix, I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a DTS and DTS-HD Ma track (note: of the same mix that is. in this case you can easily hear the difference becuase of the neutered bass in the dts-hd ma vs dts).

Thanks so much for elaborating on my post. Really appreciate it. One thing I would like to point out is that not all of the extended bass in the DTS DVD has to be in the LFE channel. Bass that's in the front channels would also be sent to the sub, and some of that may also extend quite deep.

[sfmarine]

Watching the film now and ya’ll weren’t kidding about the audio. Had to really turn up the volume on my receiver. I thought with Sony handling things for Disney that we’d get better releases but it appears as though the mouse is still in the house.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bud

I chuckled at that because QT used the toast in Once Upon A Time In Hollywood.

[rocknblues81]

Originally Posted by sfmarine

Watching the film now and ya’ll weren’t kidding about the audio. Had to really turn up the volume on my receiver. I thought with Sony handling things for Disney that we’d get better releases but it appears as though the mouse is still in the house.

Glad I didn't keep my order.

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by sfmarine

Watching the film now and ya’ll weren’t kidding about the audio. Had to really turn up the volume on my receiver. I thought with Sony handling things for Disney that we’d get better releases but it appears as though the mouse is still in the house.

Quote from a text a friend sent me:


“Needless to say, ill be switching back to the HD version of M&C. Not only is the bass extremely weak, but the overall volume and power is way down. Atmos is pretty good, but definitely not worth the sacrifice."