Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[The Apocalypse]

The legacy of Star Wars will always be a divisive one amongst the fans, no questions about it. I don't know what to really think or feel of the UOT against the new ones. I like the prequels a lot, I love the Saga.

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by EclipseSSD

The legacy of Star Wars will always be a divisive one amongst the fans, no questions about it. I don't know what to really think or feel of the UOT against the new ones. I like the prequels a lot, I love the Saga.

I don´t think you can consider some haters in internet threads representative for all fans. I think and hope there are enough fans with an open mind. I always loved Star Wars before the Special Edition. That hasn´t changed with the Special Edition (which I didn´t know evoked so much hate) or the Prequels. I love the whole Saga and can´t wait to see it finished on Blu-Ray. I really do not need previous versions since they are already out on the medium suited to the time they were released. It´s an evolutionary process you might say.

Star Wars does not belong to one generation!

[The Apocalypse]

You're right. Star Wars belongs to all of us now and for many generations to come. Lucas reached out to millions across his 6 films and that's not something to say lightly. Long live Star Wars!

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by EclipseSSD

You're right. Star Wars belongs to all of us now and for many generations to come. Lucas reached out to millions across his 6 films and that's not something to say lightly. Long live Star Wars!

Hear Hear!

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

In closing I will say that Lucas created this mess himself. By releasing and letting an entire generation and a half fall in love with his creations. Then by waiting twenty years to change things and releasing his prequel trilogy and then changing the OT yet again to fit inferior films. Nobody that loves and only supports the UOT that I know of has ever attacked the prequels for existing nor even Lucas for making his changes. Sure we may not have liked the new films because we feel they sucked but it is not because they exist. I could care less about the changes he makes to HIS films as long as history is perserved for an entire generation so we can enjoy his vision that he presented to us and continuted to share with us for over twenty years.

This whole situation is another creation by the master himself. Let's see if he still believes in what he said in 1988. Somehow I just know that he became that very thing that other directors from his era did and still fight against. We the original fans will just have to be content to get what we want by other means until the man comes to his senses and realizies just how important preserving film history is. I personally think he is going about it the wrong way. If he would just release the originals in HD (or let someone else like Criterion pay for the restoration) and do it this whole mess would just go away......as so many of you have said its a small niche (just like criterion fans) UOT fans would be happy and go away quietly, but by taking the stance he has it will never go away, in fact I think it will just get louder and louder as time marches on.

No matter how hard he tries he can not make a whole set of films or generation of fans dissappear and go away.....

Peace!

What he basically said in the speech from 1988 you misinterpreted is that noone but the filmmaker himself should be allowed to change films or decide on the way they are presented. That goes for Studios as well as so called fans. Now let´s stop this stupid discussion.

Maybe the theatrical versions will be out someday but they are definitely not part of the upcoming Saga BD-set. Period. IT´S NOT THAT IMPORTANT. THEY ARE THE SAME MOVIES!

Just like Palpatine said if I remember correctly:
"if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the UOT fans. If you wish to become a complete and wise fan, you must embrace a larger view of Star Wars."

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

So what you are asking for to satisfy all fans is a Blu-Ray set like this? Does anyone seriously want Star Wars to be released Blade-Runner-style?

Star Wars - the insanely complete Saga Set

BD 1: Episode I - the Phantom Menace (1999 theatrical Edition)
BD 2: Episode I - the Phantom Menace (2000 DVD Edition)
BD 3: Episode I - the Phantom Menace (2011 Blu-Ray Edition)
BD 4: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002 theatrical Edition)
BD 5: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002 DVD Edition)
BD 6: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002 UK DVD Edition)
BD 7: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2011 Blu-Ray Edition)
BD 8: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005 theatrical Edition)
BD 9: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005 DVD Edition)
BD 10: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2011 Blu-Ray Edition)
BD 11: Star Wars (1977 theatrical Edition with multiple sound formats)
BD 12: Episode IV - A new Hope (1981 rerelease Edition)
BD 13: Episode IV - A new Hope (1997 Special Edition)
BD 14: Episode IV - A new Hope (2004 DVD Edition)
BD 15: Episode IV - A new Hope (2011 Blu-Ray Edition)
BD 16: Episode V - the Empire strikes back (1980 theatrical Edition 35mm Master)
BD 17: Episode V - the Empire strikes back (1980 theatrical Edition 70mm Master)
BD 18: Episode V - the Empire strikes back (1997 Special Edition)
BD 19: Episode V - the Empire strikes back (2004 DVD Edition)
BD 20: Episode V - the Empire strikes back (2011 Blu-Ray Edition)
BD 17: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983 theatrical Edition)
BD 18: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1997 Special Edition)
BD 19: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (2004 DVD Edition)
BD 20: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (2011 Blu-Ray Edition)
BD 21: Prequels Specials (included in the BD Set)
BD 22: Prequels Archival Specials (all previous DVD Specials)
BD 23: Original Trilogy Specials (included in the BD Set)
BD 24: Original Trilogy Archival Specials (all LD and DVD Specials)
BD 25: the Documentaries (included in the BD Set)

You know, there is such a thing as seamless branching. We only need one disc for each film.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

You know, there is such a thing as seamless branching. We only need one disc for each film.

With all the color corrections and tweaks it wouldn't work.

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

With all the color corrections and tweaks it wouldn't work.

The color corrections are part and parcel of the restoration of the originals. I would expect it to carry over for all versions. As for the tweaks, they are not so numerous as to make branching impractical. Even if the UOT needed separate platters, the differences between the 1997/2004/2011 versions could be branched easily, as well as all the tweaks made to the PT.

I for one would love to have the theatrical cut of TPM, as every digital home video version has cut the pod race way too long. It was perfectly paced in the theatrical cut.

[adywan]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

I don´t think you can consider some haters in internet threads representative for all fans. I think and hope there are enough fans with an open mind. I always loved Star Wars before the Special Edition. That hasn´t changed with the Special Edition (which I didn´t know evoked so much hate) or the Prequels. I love the whole Saga and can´t wait to see it finished on Blu-Ray. I really do not need previous versions since they are already out on the medium suited to the time they were released. It´s an evolutionary process you might say.

Well you have really contradicted yourself here. you say you hope there are enough fans with an open mind, but you are one with a very closed mind. Just because you don't need previous versions doesn't mean to say that fans of these versions should be pushed aside and forgotten. And then you go again with the "haters" call. There are a couple of people here that constantly call anyone who doesn't like the prequels etc "haters". Yet you think your opinions are the ones that every star wars fan should go by and slate any fan that disagrees with you. I don't hate the prequels or the special editions yet i'm constantly called a hater. I, along with many other fans, will never think that these films are the masterpieces that you claim they are. But i would never say that these films should be destroyed and forgotten. There are more "hater" posts coming from certain members , with sly digs that have nothing to do with this topic but are purely personal, here than in anything i have said.

And you summed it up in your last sentence....

Star Wars does not belong to one generation!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

In closing I will say that Lucas created this mess himself. By releasing and letting an entire generation and a half fall in love with his creations.

Spot on, sir. Lucas left them far too long before changing them. Their release coinciding with the dawn of the video era didn't help, because people could then burn these movies into their brains at home whenever they wanted to. A gradual restructuring of the movies over the 80's and 90's - whenever a big breakthrough occured in visual effects - would've been less of shock to the system than junking the originals overnight.

Originally Posted by Aquel

Too bad that [the Executor] didn't do anything in 2 movies, got beaten by a few A-wings and then was destroyed in the most outdated SFX shot of the entire saga..

Totally agree, especially that last part. Two shots which really should be done for Jedi: the originally storyboarded shot of a ship crashing into the Death Star's energy shield, and a more bad-ass death for the Executor. The original shot is one of the cheapest, nastiest looking bits of FX in the entire saga. I don't care about all this model vs CG bollocks, because when it's crap, it's crap.

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

The color corrections are part and parcel of the restoration of the originals. I would expect it to carry over for all versions. As for the tweaks, they are not so numerous as to make branching impractical. Even if the UOT needed separate platters, the differences between the 1997/2004/2011 versions could be branched easily, as well as all the tweaks made to the PT.

While branching may just be feasible for Empire and Jedi (and a piece of piss to do for the prequels) there are so many outright changes to Star Wars that branching simply wouldn't work, because you'd practically have to accomodate the film twice over anyway. Yes, there really are that many changes.

I'd love to have the theatrical cut of Phantom Menace. But the theatrical version of Clones, with that diabolical dubbing of Padme after she falls from the gunship, can stay where it is. In cinema hell.

[greg_achen]

As "true" Star Wars fans, why wouldn't you want the UOT released on Blu Ray? I love Star Wars and that includes the UOT, Special Editions, and prequels. Add me to the list of people who was/is greatly disappointed that the UOT was not included in this set. Vintage documentaries I could care less about... having the option of seeing the original historically significant films restored to their original glory would go a long way in making everyone happy (aside from petty fanboys). If Lucas released the UOT, then he could easily do a Special Edition with as many updates and changes as he likes and I guarantee you that no one would complain because they had the CHOICE of seeing them in their original incarnation. I prefer the Special Edition of Aliens but I am sure as heck happy the original version was released alongside it.

[Brightstar]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

What he basically said in the speech from 1988 you misinterpreted is that noone but the filmmaker himself should be allowed to change films or decide on the way they are presented. That goes for Studios as well as so called fans. Now let´s stop this stupid discussion.

Maybe the theatrical versions will be out someday but they are definitely not part of the upcoming Saga BD-set. Period. IT´S NOT THAT IMPORTANT. THEY ARE THE SAME MOVIES!

Just like Palpatine said if I remember correctly:
"if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the UOT fans. If you wish to become a complete and wise fan, you must embrace a larger view of Star Wars."

Have u seen ALIEN Directors cut ? It was the same film but with a few changes but it sucked becouse it slowed the movie right down even riddly scott didnt like it. the theatrical cut was purfict.

The star wars UOT trilogy was great thats why fans fell in love but the special edition sucked becouse it had tons of changes



If it was not for the UOT you wouldent be talking about this Special eddition crap today

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

And Cameron is just an unimaginative second-class director - so I don't care what he has to say about Star Wars.

Cameron is still a better director than Lucas. As much as I love Star Wars, I've always thought Lucas is better at conceiving ideas than he is at directing.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Danielle Ni Dhighe

Cameron is still a better director than Lucas. As much as I love Star Wars, I've always thought Lucas is better at conceiving ideas than he is at directing.

I see where your coming from and get what you mean. When it comes to Star Wars though I want to have the movies closest to Lucas' imagination and executed with his sensibility and not necessarily the product of the "best director"...

And I really don't dig James Cameron. Sorry. I think his movies are just boring and awful.

[Scooter1836]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

These days movies die out in 2 weeks. they fizzle and go away. I wanted to see THOR and found out only one movie theater is playing it on a 100 miles radius.

Star Wars ran for more than 6 months, release after re-release...and a year later people were still shocked over it.

The movie industry today is not like it was in 1977.

In the 70's and 80's movies got more repeart business because that was the only place you could see them.

A lot of people today instead of watching a film a second time in the theatre will wait for it to come on cable, PPV, DVD or Blu-Ray.

Add to that home theatre options.

In todays (and since the mid 90's) market it takes someting extrodinary to generate the repeat business.


Now I am not implying Thor is a great move, I have not seen it. Just pointing out a general reality of today

[Scooter1836]

Originally Posted by Blu-man08

Wrong-o. All of the various versions of Blade Runner were made available on Blu-Ray.
Ridley pretty consistently has given alternate versions of his films on home video, including BD, Kingdom of Heaven being the sole exception. We'll take it in writing...

The DVD Directors cut version contained both versions of the film. I do not know why the BD release did not. However the DC version is much better.

Originally Posted by Cowboy

Really? So every film should be changed? Jaws? The Exorcist; whatever? And the Originals should never been seen again? Hmm sounds good. Jeebus just go over to the rings and check that thread out for some minor color change....

Look at th thread after people started actually receiving the product ans started to watch the picture in motion. The VAST majority report it looking great and approve the changes.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

Cameron created some enjoyable Popcorn effect Movies. Unfortunately his only concern seems to be the technical part of moviemaking that´s why his movies are so shallow, I think. Terminator 2 was a pretty cool Action-Movie when it came out ...but I wouldn´t call him a good director.

I'm not a big fan of Cameron's work, either, but I do like "T2" and most of "Titanic".

We can agree that True Lies, Aliens, and The Abyss are really awful.

I've never seen the latter two, but I enjoyed "True Lies" for the most part (except the stripper crap with Jamie Lee Curtis).

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I see where your coming from and get what you mean. When it comes to Star Wars though I want to have the movies closest to Lucas' imagination and executed with his sensibility and not necessarily the product of the "best director"...

I think Lucas did that well with episodes V and VI, where he brought in writers and directors who understood his vision. I think the prequels would have been better had Lucas taken the same approach.

And I really don't dig James Cameron. Sorry. I think his movies are just boring and awful.

I like Cameron's early films, but I find his later work to be overrated. I feel the same way about Lucas. His best work was his early films.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I see where your coming from and get what you mean. When it comes to Star Wars though I want to have the movies closest to Lucas' imagination and executed with his sensibility and not necessarily the product of the "best director"...

And I guess this is probably the biggest disconnect between those who praise Lucas for what he has done and for those who disagree with him.

It's not so much that I specifically want him to be unhappy with the finished product by any means, but as a customer... as someone who buys tickets to movie and buys movies on DVD and Blu-Ray, at the end of the day I am a big more concerned with what the entertainment value is to me.

As such, if some other director or whatever can come in and do a much better job than Lucas, himself, can, then I'm in favor of that. I don't exactly think that it's a coincidence that TESB tends to quite often be the most praised movie of the OT (and even the entire saga), but by all accounts that I've heard, of the 2 movies that Lucas didn't actually direct, it's the one that he basically gave the most freedom away to the person directing it.

I know that you and some others here like the PT a lot, and consider it 'just as good' as the OT, but the reality is that there are many people who feel quite differently. And I don't think it's a coincidence that the OT, which is often considered the better of the 2 trilogies, was made when Lucas didn't have the power that he has today (and also had at the time of making the PT). His career was still 'young' enough, even after the success of the original Star Wars when making TESB and ROTJ (he wasn't quite this 'legend' yet as he seemed to be by the time he went to make the PT), that the people surrounding him weren't 100% "yes men" and could question and challenge him to some extent or another.

For that matter, I do think that under an ideal collaboration type of situation, another director (or co-director) could potentially come in, take Lucas's ideas, and make them better than Lucas ever could on his own. We know that Lucas isn't exactly known as an "actor's director", so he could have hired someone to come on board and help get better performances from the actors.... rather than making the performances secondary to the flashy special effects. Maybe by letting someone else look over the script and make suggestions where it could be better tightened up to make it more coherent and line up with the OT better, the end result could have been better. You know... actually question him a bit instead of just being another "yes man" amongst many. Odds are those of you who are happy with the PT now still would have been happy with it under those circumstances... it's just that it's also possible that some or many of those who are not currently happy with it might feel otherwise.

I can understand, to an extent, you (and other's with similar opinions as you) taking a stance in which you don't want the creator of the material to be unhappy with the end result. Bu I just don't get the idea that you simply wouldn't even want to consider having a version of the PT in which someone else directs it due to the possibility that it may, even in the slightest way, not quite match up with Lucas's "exact" vision, even if it would otherwise, for you, be a much more enjoyable and entertaining movie.

You never heard people defend Joel Schumacher's 'vision' for Batman & Robin with such conviction. And I know that Schumacher didn't create Batman the same way that Lucas created Star Wars, but still the point essentially remains the same. Not all movies are directed by the creator of the content... sometimes that for the worse, but sometimes it's also for the better. Some people have great 'vision' but when it comes to the 'nitty gritty' aspects of directing, they aren't so good at it. Perhaps in the case of Lucas, he would have been better off communicating his vision as best he could to someone else who could have taken that and made the most out of it... special effects, acting, story, and all.

That's just the way I see it.

[MCT]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

And I really don't dig James Cameron. Sorry. I think his movies are just boring and awful.

wow. The Abyss, The Terminator, Terminator 2, True Lies, Aliens are what you'd consider "boring"?