Unforgiven 4K UHD (1992)

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

Are we that deep into a twilight zone? Although a lay "videophile" and I don't have your display, I find it hard to believe that a maxed out contrast setting is recommended for any well-mastered content. Something's amiss there.

I've been seeing this recommended for HDR content on 10 and 12 bit 1000 nit 4K tv's.

[vincentric]

Originally Posted by DJJez

noise reduction is awful. it smoothes the picture and you lose fine detail..should never turn it on.

everything else is fine

Yes, I've seen enabling NR do ugly things to regular SDR BD content and keep it disabled there but with HDR10 UHD it seems to work well, no smoothing from the various tinkering I did with it over on my end. I'll leave it there to avoid going off topic too much but I can go into a lot more detail if you want.

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

Are we that deep into a twilight zone? Although a lay "videophile" and I don't have your display, I find it hard to believe that a maxed out contrast setting is recommended for any well-mastered content. Something's amiss there.

Yes with sdr bd on my end on the oled I wouldn't set contrast any higher than 85 but for hdr10 uhd from what I've seen 96-100 is optimal.

EDIT: Quick note for when disabling dynamic contrast during hdr10 playback I'd raise OLED Light up to 85 and drop Color down to 50.

[INdetectableMAN]

HDR is not darker, it is the displays who do not treat HDR10 signals correctly.
When I see a movie edited in the three formats starting from the same master, DVD, BLURAY and ULTRAHD, I see the same movie edited at three different levels of compression where the ULTRAHD is the one with the least compression, therefore, it is technically the one best image quality will present.

Bluray is nothing more than a compressed version in all aspects (resolution, dynamic range, color space, bpp ...) of the good, the UHD.

If you do not see correctly unforgives, not look at the edition, raise the change of display because surely your display does not meet the minimum specifications necessary for the correct representation of UHD images

[legends of beyond]

Originally Posted by INdetectableMAN

HDR is not darker, it is the displays who do not treat HDR10 signals correctly.
When I see a movie edited in the three formats starting from the same master, DVD, BLURAY and ULTRAHD, I see the same movie edited at three different levels of compression where the ULTRAHD is the one with the least compression, therefore, it is technically the one best image quality will present.

Bluray is nothing more than a compressed version in all aspects (resolution, dynamic range, color space, bpp ...) of the good, the UHD.

If you do not see correctly unforgives, not look at the edition, raise the change of display because surely your display does not meet the minimum specifications necessary for the correct representation of UHD images

It does seem that this disc is supposed to be darker, as if still has less crush despite the darker appearance, which is one of the things HDR is supposed to do.

[INdetectableMAN]

Until the tvs do not properly treat HDR signals, we are going to see a lot of these issues

[garyd97]

Why is this still not in stores anywhere?

[acua]

Originally Posted by garyd97

Why is this still not in stores anywhere?

I know man, nowhere to be found. Amazon out of stock, Best buy or Target not carrying it either.

[Vertizontal]

Originally Posted by acua

I know man, nowhere to be found. Amazon out of stock, Best buy or Target not carrying it either.

Shame too...after the positive word here I'm even willing to blow a Reward Zone coupon to balance the over pricing but welp, none to be found on the BB shelves.

[bbwiscfan]

And from what I saw to begin with looked like a really nice, faithful transfer. Night-time scenes are dark but not so dark you can't see anything. I must admit this is the first time I've purchased this film on disc so I don't have anything to compare it to other than the included new Blu-ray disc. But so far, it looks good to my eyes. I hope to see this in its entirety in the next couple of days.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by acua

I know man, nowhere to be found. Amazon out of stock, Best buy or Target not carrying it either.

It seems to vary by store. I bought mine in store at Best Buy last Saturday price matching Amazon.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by INdetectableMAN

HDR is not darker, it is the displays who do not treat HDR10 signals correctly.
When I see a movie edited in the three formats starting from the same master, DVD, BLURAY and ULTRAHD, I see the same movie edited at three different levels of compression where the ULTRAHD is the one with the least compression, therefore, it is technically the one best image quality will present.

Bluray is nothing more than a compressed version in all aspects (resolution, dynamic range, color space, bpp ...) of the good, the UHD.

If you do not see correctly unforgives, not look at the edition, raise the change of display because surely your display does not meet the minimum specifications necessary for the correct representation of UHD images

While I agree with your sentiment - it's the display implementation of HDR10 that's 'broken' - it's worth bearing in mind that UHD is MASSIVELY compressed from what the masters are. A 10-bit 2K source is about 2TB while a 10-bit 4K source is 8TB, and even taking into account the increased 100GB capacity of UHD discs it should be obvious that UHD is in fact much more heavily compressed than the Blu-ray equivalent. That we get such impressive images out of it is down to the increased efficiency of the HEVC codec.

[Schrute Farms]

Seriously, where is this? Does anybody in the United States know where I can buy this in a brick-and-mortar store? Not Amazon but an actual store?

[aetherhole]

Originally Posted by Schrute Farms

Seriously, where is this? Does anybody in the United States know where I can buy this in a brick-and-mortar store? Not Amazon but an actual store?

I saw a few at Best Buy my last trip on the weekend. I guess it's just a crap-shoot as to whether or not stores have stock on them...

[tyrok]

Originally Posted by Schrute Farms

Seriously, where is this? Does anybody in the United States know where I can buy this in a brick-and-mortar store? Not Amazon but an actual store?

It is available in ALL Best Buy stores. It goes on the 4-sided new release fixture that should be placed near the front of the store but WB only sent 2 copies which is why people aren't finding it. The price went down to $31.99 on Sunday and restocks are happening this week.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by INdetectableMAN

HDR is not darker, it is the displays who do not treat HDR10 signals correctly.
When I see a movie edited in the three formats starting from the same master, DVD, BLURAY and ULTRAHD, I see the same movie edited at three different levels of compression where the ULTRAHD is the one with the least compression, therefore, it is technically the one best image quality will present.

I agree with the sentiment about TV capabilities. However I have an "HDR Premium" set and I would say the UHD is a bit dimmer than the BD with 40% backlight, and some of those nighttime interiors use HDR in a fashion that makes them look "darker," as in more fire lit and moody. Which I think is a good thing, to be clear.

I think, like a lot of discs, there are several factors going on at once which make people say the UHD is "too dark." Display nits, tone mapping, color volume are the tech factors... the intent of the master is another.

[Braktastic]

Originally Posted by tyrok

It is available in ALL Best Buy stores. It goes on the 4-sided new release fixture that should be placed near the front of the store but WB only sent 2 copies which is why people aren't finding it. The price went down to $31.99 on Sunday and restocks are happening this week.

I'll try ordering online at Best Buy. They'd be hard-pressed to handle this release poorer than Amazon has.

[Vertizontal]

Whew! Found a copy at my BB today...as Tyrok stated, only one of the two remained right on the entry rack with the other new releases...and with a $5 coupon and the lowered price I paid $26 out the door, not so bad after all.

Popped it in and skipped around and thought it looked great, especially the many well shot, daylight scenes (like when they bring skinny the horses for payment, when William is arriving at Ned's place to talk, etc). The night time/dark scenes looked proper to me, no darker than I remember them being all along really, only now there is better clarity, less noise, more refined grain. A worthy upgrade...thanks to those of you who shared your honest initial thoughts, seem to be dead right...it's a winner overall, especially considering its vintage.

[DJJez]

Originally Posted by Vertizontal

Whew! Found a copy at my BB today...as Tyrok stated, only one of the two remained right on the entry rack with the other new releases...and with a $5 coupon and the lowered price I paid $26 out the door, not so bad after all.

Popped it in and skipped around and thought it looked great, especially the many well shot, daylight scenes (like when they bring skinny the horses for payment, when William is arriving at Ned's place to talk, etc). The night time/dark scenes looked proper to me, no darker than I remember them being all along really, only now there is better clarity, less noise, more refined grain. A worthy upgrade...thanks to those of you who shared your honest initial thoughts, seem to be dead right...it's a winner overall, especially considering its vintage.

its a great transfer for a 25 year old movie

[garyd97]

Originally Posted by tyrok

It is available in ALL Best Buy stores. It goes on the 4-sided new release fixture that should be placed near the front of the store but WB only sent 2 copies which is why people aren't finding it. The price went down to $31.99 on Sunday and restocks are happening this week.

It is not in the 2 stores near me. I checked personally, and the website says nothing within 250 miles.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Makes sense and possibly the case. I'm actually looking into moving to an HDR projector (although might wait and see what is announced at Cedia for 2018 at this point).
But I wonder if it's also just display differences? Calibration, contrast, light output, etc can play a role if all not even.

BUT, a good test would be to try and use SDR conversion on your ZD9 and compare it to HDR. I would be very curious what you find there as it would be an apples to apples comparison.

I just did this very thing with Unforgiven into SDR 709 and yep, the grain became much more "fizzy" and noisy rather than the fine patina visible in true HDR 2020 output.