Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[EvaDK]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

That's not what Lucas was about. In his SW universe, Midis are in every living thing. They're just a mechanism. Anakin's numbers were off the chart as a clue that he was created by the Sith. That's all Lucas was doing with them...it was supposed to be a clue, a setup, with the payoff in Sith (which didn't happen).

Lucas didn't need to invent a biological Macguffin to tell our characters that this kid is strong with the Force. In the OT, it was established that Force wielders can detect the presence of other Force wielders. Vader even exclaims that 'the Force is strong with this one', when chasing Luke's X-Wing in the Death Star chasm. The midi-crap in the PT is completely redundant.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by spiderfan1985

It was. Until Ghost Protocol crushed it under sheer awesomeness. Seriously, M:I-3 is great, but Brad Bird got the tone right with Ghost Protocol (with Abrams producing no less). That's important to me. Intense, but also light and chipper. Abrams has a lot of detractors I know. The whole "lens flare obsession" thing has lit up a million forums just like this one with complaints about how overdone it is. It never bothered me. I agree with you about his Star Trek films. The first is the best, but both are fun. The opening prologue of Abrams' first Trek had me in tears. Seriously. How many movies can you think of that get you emotionally worked up in 10 minutes or less in the beginning? That's impressive. Especially since it deals with characters you never see again. Super 8 is awesome. Abrams really strikes me as an old school film fan. Just watching the featurettes on the Star Trek blu ray and seeing how he used as many old school film tricks as he could before jumping to CG was impressive to me. And I am no CG hater. I just have to give the man a tip of the hat if nothing else. Super 8 definitely captured that 80's Spielberg/Dante/Reiner vibe. The cast of kids he got in that was remarkable down to the last one. He pulled excellent performances out of all of them. Especially Joel Courtney, Elle Fanning, and Riley Griffiths. The one who had the pyro obsession was hysterical. It is an impressive thing if a director can get a great performance out of just one child, but to get great natural believable performances out of an ensemble of preteens (and only one of them had any real experience… Fanning) like that is just extraordinarily rare. Earth to Echo managed it most recently and it bears more than a passing resemblance to Super 8. So Abrams' oeuvre is not very extensive as of yet, but I find the guy to be both talented and passionate about his work. That is a great combo in any director. He doesn't phone it in.

Nothing JJ has done before or since has matched up to those opening 10 minutes of Star Trek '09. The cold open to MI:III was pretty cool though, as was the rollicking Raiders rip-off that started Into Darkness. The man knows how to start a movie with a bang and he can really push the audience's buttons when he sets his mind to it, and I can't wait to see where he takes his career after Star Wars is out of the way.

[spiderfan1985]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nothing JJ has done before or since has matched up to those opening 10 minutes of Star Trek '09. The cold open to MI:III was pretty cool though, as was the rollicking Raiders rip-off that started Into Darkness. The man knows how to start a movie with a bang and he can really push the audience's buttons when he sets his mind to it, and I can't wait to see where he takes his career after Star Wars is out of the way.

I loved Super 8. That in fact is my favorite Abrams movie as of now. I may have been born in 85, but I am much more a child of the 90s as that is when I did most of my cognizant growing up. Be that as it may, Super 8 made me kind of wistful for an era I never new.

[Tony208]

So what title is the porn parody going to be?

[EvaDK]

I'd agree somewhat that JJ Abrams often have problems with concluding his story lines, gathering the plot strands into a narrative that resonates with what you've just watched for 2 hours or so.

I loved the first 2/3rds of Super 8 - not the last 1/3. Into Darkness was a total mess, playing out like a Walmart version of Wrath Of Khan. LOST and ALIAS got itself into some big convoluted plot strands that left people wondering what the f was going on?

The first Star Trek might just be his best and most consistent film as such. He made Star Trek hugely cinematic as well, without imitating Star Wars.

I really hope Lawrence Kasdan brings his A-game to Episode VII. He's the guy who can make this film into something really special imo.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by EvaDK

Lucas didn't need to invent a biological Macguffin to tell our characters that this kid is strong with the Force. In the OT, it was established that Force wielders can detect the presence of other Force wielders. Vader even exclaims that 'the Force is strong with this one', when chasing Luke's X-Wing in the Death Star chasm. The midi-crap in the PT is completely redundant.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That WASN'T the Macguffin. The shocker for Anakin was that he was created by the Sith. Lucas created that not as a mechanism as to how Jedi used the Force, it was created to explain how the Sith created Anakin.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by spiderfan1985

I loved Super 8. That in fact is my favorite Abrams movie as of now. I may have been born in 85, but I am much more a child of the 90s as that is when I did most of my cognizant growing up. Be that as it may, Super 8 made me kind of wistful for an era I never new.

I'm a proper '80s child (born in 1980) so to me Super 8 is a reasonably effective homage with a grab-bag of sci-fi references, rather being than a true evocation of what made those types of '80s kids movies really great. I don't need the ersatz nostalgia of it when I've actually got Goonies, ET, Gremlins and other classics sitting on my shelves.

ST '09 is still my favourite JJ flick, but there's room for improvement in the way he tells stories and if he cracks that with Ep VII, we could be in for an absolute treat.

[spiderfan1985]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm a proper '80s child (born in 1980) so to me Super 8 is a reasonably effective homage with a grab-bag of sci-fi references, rather being than a true evocation of what made those types of '80s kids movies really great. I don't need the ersatz nostalgia of it when I've actually got Goonies, ET, Gremlins and other classics sitting on my shelves.

ST '09 is still my favourite JJ flick, but there's room for improvement in the way he tells stories and if he cracks that with Ep VII, we could be in for an absolute treat.

Well I am not a proper 80's child, but I still get the nostalgia feeling off Super 8. All this on Episode VII is speculation though. The only way we are going to know if JJ cracked it is to wait and see it for ourselves. Of course there will be those who hate on it just to be "cool" or so they think. I will go in and hopefully have a great old time at the movies. If it provides the requisite fun factor that Star Wars must provide, then I am A okay.

[captveg]

I love Super 8. My favorite of his films so far.

[spiderfan1985]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

That WASN'T the Macguffin. The shocker for Anakin was that he was created by the Sith. Lucas created that not as a mechanism as to how Jedi used the Force, it was created to explain how the Sith created Anakin.

Wait, did I miss something? Where did this come from? Anakin's mother explicitly states in Phantom Menace that "there was no father." Unless a Sith learned the art of invisibility and… you know.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by captveg

I love Super 8. My favorite of his films so far.

Absolutely. I loved the film as well.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by spiderfan1985

Wait, did I miss something? Where did this come from? Anakin's mother explicitly states in Phantom Menace that "there was no father." Unless a Sith learned the art of invisibility and… you know.

No one jumped on Shmi and made a baby. The Sith used her as a test.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by EvaDK

I'd agree somewhat that JJ Abrams often have problems with concluding his story lines, gathering the plot strands into a narrative that resonates with what you've just watched for 2 hours or so.

I loved the first 2/3rds of Super 8 - not the last 1/3. Into Darkness was a total mess, playing out like a Walmart version of Wrath Of Khan. LOST and ALIAS got itself into some big convoluted plot strands that left people wondering what the f was going on?

The first Star Trek might just be his best and most consistent film as such. He made Star Trek hugely cinematic as well, without imitating Star Wars.

I really hope Lawrence Kasdan brings his A-game to Episode VII. He's the guy who can make this film into something really special imo.

I agree with everything you said. Except, despite loving JJ's first Star Trek film, I can't deny seeing that he definitely took a few pages from the book of Star Wars.

[spiderfan1985]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

No one jumped on Shmi and made a baby. The Sith used her as a test.

Okay, I went back a couple pages. So that was really a part of George Lucas's original storyline? I love the prequels the way they are. Love, not like, Love. I liked the more mysterious way that it turned out. Oh well, to each their own. They get so much hate, and I started to go with it for a while until I sat down and watched them again on blu and all of the hate just vanished in an insignificant puff of smoke. They are fun movies. They are supposed to be fun. And fun they are.

[SymbioticFunction]

Originally Posted by SuperFlyHighGuy

Of course I'll see them to see the characters I adored growing up, but I expect something along the lines of the recent Indiana Jones movie, which had hints of the old charm but ultimately felt empty and unnecessary.

I'll be really disappointed if The Force Awakens isn't a much better film than Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

No one jumped on Shmi and made a baby. The Sith used her as a test.

I'm pretty sure "there was no father ..." is Tatooine code for Shmi got hammered and couldn't find the Landspeeder the next morning.

[EvaDK]

Originally Posted by spiderfan1985

Wait, did I miss something? Where did this come from? Anakin's mother explicitly states in Phantom Menace that "there was no father." Unless a Sith learned the art of invisibility and… you know.

It's implied in Sith when Palpatine and Anakin talk during the opera scene. It is also implied that Palpatine was the apprentice killing his master in the Sith legend he tells Anakin about, in order to sway Anakin over to the dark side of the Force.

Not that it actually leads anywhere useful within the films... I guess Lucas didn't have the time to give this aspect some real gravitas, sadly.

[MCT]

the one cool thing about that whole abandoned plotline is that it would effectively have turned Anakin into an intergalatic Rosemarys Baby....he basically would have been the Anti-Christ. This whole time we're thinking he's this wholesome young man destined to do great, good things, but then it turns out all those random temper tantrums and acts of violence weren't accidental; he's actually a product of pure evil. Would have been really cool if Lucas had gone all the way with it.

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by chip75

I'm pretty sure "there was no father ..." is Tatooine code for Shmi got hammered and couldn't find the Landspeeder the next morning.

I honestly interpreted "there was no father" as he took off and isn't worth mentioning. I still think of it that way. Anakins father is a deadbeat or a drifter she had a fling with and she's embarrassed to talk about it. I don't buy an immaculate conception for one second.

[tigertron]

I'm pretty certain that Anakin was created by the dark side, due to Plagueis. Either that or he was created by the light side of the force.