Flash Gordon 4K UHD (1980)

[marine92104]

Is there any differences in the PQ or transfer of the Studio Canal disc when compared to the US disc?

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by marine92104

Is there any differences in the PQ or transfer of the Studio Canal disc when compared to the US disc?

[marine92104]

Sorry at work & can’t read the whole thread. Saw the U.K. disc got a 5 for PQ & AQ.

I can read the thread when I get home.

[professorwho]

Because people are lazy and won't read: the picture quality on both the Arrow and Studio Canal 4K releases are 100% IDENTICAL. The same video encoder did both, and the files for the video and English audio are 100% identical as well. You are not getting a better or worse experience either way, so get whatever is cheaper or appeals to you most.

[Christian Muth]

Very curious to read in the tech notes quoted on Dr. Svet's review of the Studio Canal set that the audio was apparently mastered from the optical negative as opposed to 35mm magnetic pre-print masters (the tech notes in the Arrow booklet only say that that audio came from "the original stereo tracks" without getting into specifics of mag vs. optical). I wonder what happened to the original mag tracks, and if the audio anomalies on these releases are down to the optical soundtrack being the source instead of the 35mm magnetic masters.

Chris

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Very curious to read in the tech notes quoted on Dr. Svet's review of the Studio Canal set that the audio was apparently mastered from the optical negative as opposed to 35mm magnetic pre-print masters (the tech notes in the Arrow booklet only say that that audio came from "the original stereo tracks" without getting into specifics of mag vs. optical). I wonder what happened to the original mag tracks, and if the audio anomalies on these releases are down to the optical soundtrack being the source instead of the 35mm magnetic masters.

Chris

They mentioned it being an optical track in the press release, or something like that. The mag tracks were probably lost or junked.

(Still, the mono audio for Dawn of the Dead has been remastered from the optical as there were no mag tracks available and it's fûcking stunning, so an optical isn't always the kiss of death. Helps that it's mono though, whereas with Flash's stereo track there may be certain phasing anomalies baked into that specific recording and they can't do much about it.)

[SpaceBlackKnight]

As for the audio, this could all be a Superman '78 situation. Arrow and SC said they restored the 2.0 stereo from the Dolby Stereo LRCS element and did a discrete upmix (with stereotized rears and generated LFE channel) to 5.1 from that.

It sounds like the Universal LD and VHS releases use a later/alternate mix that had corrections or changes done by the time it came out in the US (Flash came out in the UK first by EMI, then Universal released it a few weeks later in the States). StudioCanal could have used an earlier/alternate European release mix, specifically one made for the earlier UK release, which contains some sound differences one other poster noticed compared to the LD and Universal DVD/Blus, and has the channel bleeding baked in ala Supes '78 DS mix. In fact, does the prior StudioCanal/Optimum Blu have these mixing issues or is it simluar to the Universal/US 5.1 mixes?

There was a rumor that Flash Gordon was initially mixed in mono (like Creepshow was before Warner picked it up and insisted on a Dolby Stereo mix in the final cut) due to the cheapness of producer Dino De Laurentiis. But when EMI stepped in, they wanted a stereo mix so the Queen music would be more immersive and give it a bigger shot at being the next big Star Wars. That could also explain the UK/alternate stereo with the the mono elements such as the dialog stems funneled through the surrounds.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Very curious to read in the tech notes quoted on Dr. Svet's review of the Studio Canal set that the audio was apparently mastered from the optical negative as opposed to 35mm magnetic pre-print masters (the tech notes in the Arrow booklet only say that that audio came from "the original stereo tracks" without getting into specifics of mag vs. optical). I wonder what happened to the original mag tracks, and if the audio anomalies on these releases are down to the optical soundtrack being the source instead of the 35mm magnetic masters.
Chris

Well I'll be darned. This is the eureka moment. I hadn't realized the SC info went into further detail than the Arrow booklet.
My new premise is thus (and especially since I can't get any official source to respond with any info) that since they used the optical as a source it had the bleeding inherent as all optical will usually have some bleeding and thus it carried over to the final track. Since the 5.1 is apparently also a new upmix it would explain the improved sound over the USA Uni BD 5.1 track and why this new 5.1 also has the leakage. It seems no one at SC noticed the channel bleeding which doesn't surprise me as it's not an issue most have ever dealt with in our modern age.

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

As for the audio, this could all be a Superman '78 situation. Arrow and SC said they restored the 2.0 stereo from the Dolby Stereo LRCS element and did a discrete upmix (with stereotized rears and generated LFE channel) to 5.1 from that.

It sounds like the Universal LD and VHS releases use a later/alternate mix that had corrections or changes done by the time it came out in the US (Flash came out in the UK first by EMI, then Universal released it a few weeks later in the States). StudioCanal could have used an earlier/alternate European release mix, specifically one made for the earlier UK release, which contains some sound differences one other poster noticed compared to the LD and Universal DVD/Blus, and has the channel bleeding baked in ala Supes '78 DS mix. In fact, does the prior StudioCanal/Optimum Blu have these mixing issues or is it simluar to the Universal/US 5.1 mixes?

There was a rumor that Flash Gordon was initially mixed in mono (like Creepshow was before Warner picked it up and insisted on a Dolby Stereo mix in the final cut) due to the cheapness of producer Dino De Laurentiis. But when EMI stepped in, they wanted a stereo mix so the Queen music would be more immersive and give it a bigger shot at being the next big Star Wars. That could also explain the UK/alternate stereo with the the mono elements such as the dialog stems funneled through the surrounds.

As for the original US issues my bet is that they used some sort of IP which is in Universal's storage. This would account for the darker look compared to the negative scans of the SC versions and it is very likely that a 4 channel mag master with proper Dolby stereo encoding is in the Universal vault and was used for the US release prints back in 1980 and the Laserdisc releases. It was very common for LDs by the time of letterboxing and digital sound to use the best studio print source and master it with a transfer of the mag master from the vaults. Since SC did the restoration from the European elements it is possible that they didn't request or obtain any Universal USA held elements.

Comparing the Laserdisc 2.0 to the Arrow 2.0 shows they are the same mix. The only difference besides the leakage is in volume level and noise reduction as the new release is a tad louder and has hiss reduction etc. In spite of it having infrequent light high end distortion at times the LD audio is the better listen slightly because of the lack of cleanup-but is made the best audio because of it having no leakage whatsoever.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if mono was the original release plan due to DDL's cheapness. I was always surprised Flash got full Dolby Stereo when Conan was saddled with mono right after. And this theory about it being EMI forcing the stereo usage because of Queen makes perfect sense as otherwise had it been Universal's input then they would have also insisted Conan have gotten Dolby Stereo when they released it in the US and of course it didn't.


This now makes a heck of a lot more sense as I've been scratching my head trying to figure out why suddenly there was leakage. Again it's my best guess but it actually makes sense. I've experienced similar things on older releases where they had to use lesser elements or just didn't pay attention and thus you have dialog leaks or random wild lines pop up behind you because they jump through the matrix.

I've heard nothing from SC yet.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

As for the original US issues my bet is that they used some sort of IP which is in Universal's storage. This would account for the darker look compared to the negative scans of the SC versions and it is very likely that a 4 channel mag master with proper Dolby stereo encoding is in the Universal vault and was used for the US release prints back in 1980 and the Laserdisc releases. It was very common for LDs by the time of letterboxing and digital sound to use the best studio print source and master it with a transfer of the mag master from the vaults. Since SC did the restoration from the European elements it is possible that they didn't request or obtain any Universal USA held elements.

Comparing the Laserdisc 2.0 to the Arrow 2.0 shows they are the same mix. The only difference besides the leakage is in volume level and noise reduction as the new release is a tad louder and has hiss reduction etc. In spite of it having infrequent light high end distortion at times the LD audio is the better listen slightly because of the lack of cleanup-but is made the best audio because of it having no leakage whatsoever.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if mono was the original release plan due to DDL's cheapness. I was always surprised Flash got full Dolby Stereo when Conan was saddled with mono right after. And this theory about it being EMI forcing the stereo usage because of Queen makes perfect sense as otherwise had it been Universal's input then they would have also insisted Conan have gotten Dolby Stereo when they released it in the US and of course it didn't.

This now makes a heck of a lot more sense as I've been scratching my head trying to figure out why suddenly there was leakage. Again it's my best guess but it actually makes sense. I've experienced similar things on older releases where they had to use lesser elements or just didn't pay attention and thus you have dialog leaks or random wild lines pop up behind you because they jump through the matrix.

I've heard nothing from SC yet.

The US releases right up to the last Blu used an IP, which also explains the darker color timing compared to the brighter OCN sourced StudioCanal releases. StudioCanal possess the OCN/original film elements and master audio track elements from EMI's ownership, so it's no surprise they did all the restoration and HDR work.

Speaking of audio, there's another rumor that the original mono mix ended up on the US pan and scan TV prints EMI made. EMI owned TV rights worldwide and that version aired on HBO in the US with an EMI logo and different voicework in spots, most notably with Sam Jones.

However, like most OCN or master print elements are, the credits for Flash were most likely textless to alot for localization. Canal probably borrowed the IP from Universal to properly fill in those sections, and possibly some other shots throughout that were missing/too damaged or had incomplete/alternate VFX.

That also could explain the Universal logo showing up here, as StudioCanal's 4k HDR restoration of Elephant Man is missing the Paramount logos (due to being sourced from the EMI owned OCN) when the previous StudioCanal HD master had them as it was most likely made from a Paramount owned IP.

As for Conan The Barbarian, Universal and overseas distributor 20th Century Fox had no idea how that would do, since the source material was never previously adapted with that much of a large budget and Arnie was basically unknown in Hollywood at the time. Being Flash under-performed outside of the UK, neither distributor didn't want to take any more risks and did a wait-and-see approach. That didn't stop Dino De Laurentiis from having Conan the Destroyer be mono only and Universal not asking any questions.

[captainsolo]

That all makes perfect sense.
The only instance I've heard of the Sam Jones on set audio mix appearing was the old HBO broadcasts and it was mono. I swear someone had a clip up on youtube at some point from an old tape made back in the day.
That's the one glaring thing missing from this new release. I can understand not finding it but at least they could have mentioned it.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Flash Gordon - DVD/HBO Audio Comparison - YouTube

[spatafore]

Originally Posted by Jb162009

May of already be posted but I just noticed zoom.co.uk has a pre order listed for standard version for release on 5th October for £19.99

https://www.zoom.co.uk/product/flash...nniversary_uhd

[

I have the Arrorw Limited, but maybe I buy that standard because I prefer the FRONT artwork of the studio canal.

I bet not include anything? I only want the comic from the limited studio canal

[jaredofmo]

I bought the Arrow set and it wound up being the first 4K disc I watched. Period. I upgraded my TV and Blu-Ray player over the summer.

I do kinda wish Arrow had thrown in a standard Blu-Ray as I plan to keep my old setup for another room, so that way I can watch it there. I have the old Universal disc, but you think I'm going to want to watch that now? As compared to the Studio Canal set, I really wish we could've also gotten the soundtrack CD too. But hey. I knew what I was getting by going for Arrow instead of importing the SC. If I want those, they're out there.

It looked and sounded great, haven't watched many of the bonuses yet, though.

[Mr0rang3]

Has anyone had any issues playing this disk?
I have a panasonic ub700 and when it gets to chapter 10 it starts to stutter and freeze, all the extra features do the same :/

[Mr0rang3]

This is what happens in chapter 10

[Mr0rang3]

When I select one of the special features to watch on the UHD the disk goes to a black screen, the player display says 'play' then the disk stops spinning, eventually booting me back to the main menu!

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by professorwho

Because people are lazy and won't read: the picture quality on both the Arrow and Studio Canal 4K releases are 100% IDENTICAL. The same video encoder did both, and the files for the video and English audio are 100% identical as well. You are not getting a better or worse experience either way, so get whatever is cheaper or appeals to you most.

Forums are supposed to be here to help each other out. So any time people have a question they have to read every page of the thread first? That's unrealistic. If a particular poster doesn't want to answer, don't. Let somebody else who doesn't mind helping.

Not everybody knows how to use the search optimally.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Mr0rang3

This is what happens in chapter 10

When exactly? My disc acted up at some point during the movie, around the time the ship was entering the clouds. My Sony X700 choked for a couple seconds and I thought for sure it would lock up, but it corrected itself.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Forums are supposed to be here to help each other out. So any time people have a question they have to read every page of the thread first? That's unrealistic. If a particular poster doesn't want to answer, don't. Let somebody else who doesn't mind helping.

Not everybody knows how to use the search optimally.

To be fair, even if you know how to search, it's impossible to find certain things. It would be nice if there was some kind of "thread FAQ". For example - there could be 50-60 pages of "I can't wait for this to come out", and on page 94 is when people actually start getting the disc. So if you're reading a thread six months or a year later, how do you find all these little things, including the start of when people start getting their discs? It's the one gripe I have with forums for the last 20+ years is that you can't easily find the point you want.

[modernlove101]

Hey! Looks like some others are having problems with this disc? I'm fairly new to 4k. I have a region free LG player that plays up to 60hz (if that's how it works) and the TCL R635. Granted neither are particularly high end but they've played 4k discs pretty much fine up until now.

But with this disc, first off the main menu's silent. That could be how it is but I doubt it. Playing the movie, though, there are frequent tiny frame judders and frame rate dropping. When I rewind and play the affected clip again it plays fine. Not sure what's wrong, please help!