OFFICIAL KINO International/KINO Video Thread

[silentblu]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

How or who decide how music will be added for silent movies? What kind of rights are on that? Is it just left to who ever release the DVD or Blu-ray to pick?

I assume it is up to the studio. With Battleship Potemkin, Kino used the original score. With the general they gave 3 options for scores, the main one being from 1987 by Carl Davis.

[Matt Stieg]

TCM has been using that particular version with the Alloy Orchestra score for the past several years now (pre-2003 they were broadcasting the color-tinted Killiam version with a piano score by William Perry). I don't know when the score was written and first performed, but it was included on a double feature DVD with The General from Image in 2003.

More than likely the Kino blu-ray will include the great Gaylord Carter organ score which Kino has been using for this film since their original 1991 VHS/laserdisc release. It is, imo, a really terrific score, with a catchy use of "Cotton Blossom" from Show Boat and a very thrilling climactic score. I'm hoping the score maybe gets an uncompressed PCM treatment, but if it doesn't it's not too big a deal considering it's a rather mediocre mono recording.

I still can't say enough how excited I am that this movie is coming out on blu! Given that the Keaton films have probably been Kino's biggest sellers and most recognizable product (relatively speaking), and what with the rumored Chaplin Criterion blus, I'm thinking we're gonna be getting plenty more Keaton on blu sooner rather than later.

[Arkadin]

finished "Battleship Potemkin" today.
all I can say is BUY THIS BLU-RAY.
absolutely stunning presentation although be prepared for still obvious major print damage.
still, will probably be--with Metropolis"--the most important bd release of the year imo.
seminal films marking the birth of modern filmmaking in their best home presentations ever.
it is such a joy to watch silent masterpieces on blu, and I cannot wait for the Chaplin and other Keaton films.
gotta go order "City Girl" now.

[BasicGreatGuy]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

finished "Battleship Potemkin" today.
all I can say is BUY THIS BLU-RAY.
absolutely stunning presentation although be prepared for still obvious major print damage.
still, will probably be--with Metropolis"--the most important bd release of the year imo.
seminal films marking the birth of modern filmmaking in their best home presentations ever.

Will you elaborate about the print damage with "Battleship Potemkin"?

[Arkadin]

I mean you just see all kinds of little scratches and weird black marks that sometimes linger on the edges of the frame sometimes.
you see lots of little lines that are very prominent, but don't really detract too much from the film.
I feel like there are probably spots where a frame or two is missing, but I can't be positive.
It just felt like that a few times the way the cuts jumped.
I mean it's nothing that really affects the enjoyability of the presentation in any extreme way, but it's not like "City Girl" which from the screenshots I have seen looks almost pristine.
this looks far from pristine, but the image is very clear.
the image is strong overall with fairly good detail, and very nice contrast.
all the other stuff is just kind of a constant presence in the background and towards the edges of the frame.
It seems apparent that they must have been working with some pretty extreme elements.

[BasicGreatGuy]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

I mean you just see all kinds of little scratches and weird black marks that sometimes linger on the edges of the frame sometimes.
you see lots of little lines that are very prominent, but don't really detract too much from the film.
I mean it's nothing that really affects the enjoyability of the presentation in any extreme way, but it's not like "City Girl" which from the screenshots I have seen looks almost pristine.
this looks far from pristine, but the image is very clear.
the image is strong overall with fairly good detail, with very nice contrast.
all the other stuff is just kind of a constant presence in the background.

Thanks for the information.

[kndy]

Just an FYI for those new to purchasing silent films... especially on Blu-ray.

Please remember that a large number of silent films are lost. Any surviving film from the 1900's-1920's, we should be grateful. Especially films like "Intolerance" and "Metropolis" in which footage is being found to make them complete.

But the mindset back then was that many film companies didn't take care of them because they didn't think that after a film was shown in a theater, people would want to see it again. Also, that a lot of silent films were shot on nitrate. Nitrate is flammable and many of the FOX silents, 80-90% were destroyed in a warehouse fire in the late '30s.

"City Girl" looks absolutely awesome on Blu-ray (avail. from Masters of Cinema -> Go to the UK thread, it's non-region release. Also, "Sunrise" which are two films that are worthy of being in your Blu-ray collection).

So, it's one thing to have silent films on DVD for the sake of seeing lost gems of yesteryear but it's even more impressive to find films that have materials that can allow for a proper Blu-ray release.

But it's important to note that a lot of these older films on Blu-ray are not going to be 100% pristine. "The General" absolutely looks fantastic on Blu-ray and I'm sure "Metropolis", which is going through major restoration due to the new footage is going to look great. And for films nearly a hundred years old, I'm just happy that they are being considered for Blu-ray by Kino, MoC and now Criterion.

I hope Warner considers the Harold Lloyd films ("Safety Last" would definitely be an awesome film to have on BD) since he was pretty smart about taking ownership of his films and having his daughter's friends convince him to transfer most of his films from the original nitrate and kept them locked up in a safe.

[Arkadin]

good info!
thanks for that.
"Sunrise" is truly a great bd release, as is "The General".
all the silent films released so far on bd are extremely worthwhile releases, and look fantastic overall.

[silentblu]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

I mean you just see all kinds of little scratches and weird black marks that sometimes linger on the edges of the frame sometimes.
you see lots of little lines that are very prominent, but don't really detract too much from the film.
I feel like there are probably spots where a frame or two is missing, but I can't be positive.
It just felt like that a few times the way the cuts jumped.
I mean it's nothing that really affects the enjoyability of the presentation in any extreme way, but it's not like "City Girl" which from the screenshots I have seen looks almost pristine.
this looks far from pristine, but the image is very clear.
the image is strong overall with fairly good detail, and very nice contrast.
all the other stuff is just kind of a constant presence in the background and towards the edges of the frame.
It seems apparent that they must have been working with some pretty extreme elements.

One thing to keep in mind about the cuts is Eisenstein was introducing filmmaking to the montage (quick cuts). The cutting and editing probably weren't perfect.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by kndy

Just an FYI for those new to purchasing silent films... especially on Blu-ray.

Please remember that a large number of silent films are lost. Any surviving film from the 1900's-1920's, we should be grateful. Especially films like "Intolerance" and "Metropolis" in which footage is being found to make them complete.

But the mindset back then was that many film companies didn't take care of them because they didn't think that after a film was shown in a theater, people would want to see it again. Also, that a lot of silent films were shot on nitrate. Nitrate is flammable and many of the FOX silents, 80-90% were destroyed in a warehouse fire in the late '30s.

"City Girl" looks absolutely awesome on Blu-ray (avail. from Masters of Cinema -> Go to the UK thread, it's non-region release. Also, "Sunrise" which are two films that are worthy of being in your Blu-ray collection).

So, it's one thing to have silent films on DVD for the sake of seeing lost gems of yesteryear but it's even more impressive to find films that have materials that can allow for a proper Blu-ray release.

But it's important to note that a lot of these older films on Blu-ray are not going to be 100% pristine. "The General" absolutely looks fantastic on Blu-ray and I'm sure "Metropolis", which is going through major restoration due to the new footage is going to look great. And for films nearly a hundred years old, I'm just happy that they are being considered for Blu-ray by Kino, MoC and now Criterion.

I hope Warner considers the Harold Lloyd films ("Safety Last" would definitely be an awesome film to have on BD) since he was pretty smart about taking ownership of his films and having his daughter's friends convince him to transfer most of his films from the original nitrate and kept them locked up in a safe.

Just to add to this a little bit, as each home video technology improves picture quality, certain aspects of silent films are going to look better, and certain aspects will look "worse". In many instances, even with Metropolis, for example, certain portions, reels, or sometimes the entire negative or surviving print has been damaged or mistreated, and in 1080p, this damage may often seem more obvious than it would on a standard definition DVD due to the inherent increase in resolution. We must also remember that there is a fine line to walk between "restoring" damage and covering it up with digital manipulation, which, even though it may look more attractive, is often less preferable than presenting the material in a damaged state.

The other thing to reiterate--again, with Metropolis gaining all this attention--is that very few silent films are financially worth that amount of extensive restoration. The sad fact is that the viewership of these films is significantly smaller than even a black and white sound picture, and many people aren't even aware of most of them. So when we do start seeing more silents in HD, please be cognizant of the fact that in general they are put out by labels that have done the best they can to present them, likely at a minimal profit margin, and unless it's a Chaplin or a Keaton or a Griffith, it's probably the best it will ever look in the format.

[kndy]

Leonard Maltin comments on the restored "Metropolis" screened at the TCM Classic Film Festival and also the things he did a the event.

I can't wait for this film's release on Blu-ray!

Kino trailer for the upcoming restored version of Metropolis
http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/new...is-trailer.php

Also, received my Potemkin Blu today! I look forward to watching it!

[Arkadin]

I don't think anyone can handle waiting much longer for "Metropolis"
Watching the restored version on bd at home is going to be insane.

[Deciazulado]

Battleship Potemkin Blu-ray Review

[bluskies]

New released cover for the DVD, so I expect the Blu to be the same.

[bluskies]

Originally Posted by silentblu

Anyone attending the Metropolis premiere, please let us know about the Alloy Orchestra score.

I was there and...they - were - fantastic! (It wasn't pre-recorded, they were there live.) I do hope that the Blu release will include their score. It was truly dynamic, so absolutely perfect for that film.

[silentblu]

Originally Posted by bluskies

I was there and...they - were - fantastic! (It wasn't pre-recorded, they were there live.) I do hope that the Blu release will include their score. It was truly dynamic, so absolutely perfect for that film.

Good to hear. Can't wait for more silent releases; watched "The General" and "Battleship Potemkin" today. The scores were great for both. I really enjoyed the building tempo in Act 5 of "Battleship Potemkin."

[BasicGreatGuy]

Originally Posted by bluskies

I was there and...they - were - fantastic! (It wasn't pre-recorded, they were there live.) I do hope that the Blu release will include their score. It was truly dynamic, so absolutely perfect for that film.

What a wonderful experience to read. I wish we still had that as a rule at certain places, instead of the rare moment in time exception.

What did you think of the restored transfer?

[ksc2303]

Originally Posted by silentblu

I really enjoyed the building tempo in Act 5 of "Battleship Potemkin."

That was insane, its several minutes long and when you think it's reached the climax it keeps going and going, lol

[BasicGreatGuy]

Originally Posted by ccfixx

So, since many of the Kino thread contributors are crossovers from the Criteron thread, I thought I'd see if I could get an answer to something I'm currently irked with.

Being unfamiliar with Keaton's "Steamboat Bill, Jr." I recorded it this past week from TCM. However, I have only made it halfway through the film so far. While I'm loving the actual filmed footage and the performances by the actors, I'm finding the musical accompaniment to the film to be a real letdown. For me, it's just bringing the whole beauty of the film down to a contrived/artificial level... it's much too modern sounding, in my opinion, to belong with such a great film. As I haven't made it through the whole film, yet, I'm not sure what musical piece it is that's playing throughout the film.

So, my question for all those that are more familiar with "Steamboat Bill, Jr.", and its various format releases, pertains to the known soundtracks. Is there one widely known soundtrack (maybe, the one I'm hearing on the TCM broadcast) that is recognized as the "better" of the music that has been associated with this film, or are there a variety of scores out there to equal the variety of releases over the years?

CC

I agree with you about the music. In my opinion, it doesn't fit the movie. I hope they don't use this same score for the Blu-ray release.

[Matt Stieg]

I agree with you about the music. In my opinion, it doesn't fit the movie. I hope they don't use this same score for the Blu-ray release.

Check out my post at the top of this page; more than likely it will be Gaylord Carter's magnificent organ score.