The Whip and the Body (1963)

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

My experience of the EMS DVD is limited to caps - I want to say it's somewhere between the two through sheer gut feeling. The dusk-set scenes now seem warmer with more purples and oranges rather than all day for night despite a setting sun in the background.

So it's still rather dark in places, but absolutely not crushed and blanket-tinted like the old Blu. The movie now starts at daytime and progresses through dusk into night, mirroring the story descending into darkness. Does that sound correct for the film based on the EMS DVD? You absolutely get the full effect of Bava's lighting, especially the stylistic shots when Lee moves between different gels towards camera.

A key shot would be the second comparison here: the horses on the beach. Daytime in the EMS, resembles day for night in Kino. Same deal with the third cap for that matter.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...d_the_body.htm

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

A key shot would be the second comparison here: the horses on the beach. Daytime in the EMS, resembles day for night in Kino. Same deal with the third cap for that matter.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...d_the_body.htm

I've loaded it up and found that bit, it's totally daytime at that point on the 88 disc. The 3rd cap too, daytime but you get the impression the sun is lower in the sky. By the time they find her, it's night.

So, it looks to be spot on then.

My memory was cheating earlier - Kurt arrives late in the day as it's getting dark, it's after that we start at a new day and progress as I said earlier.

[cakefactory]

Thanks. I figured that would be the case. I'm not super worried about this being so grainy as to be worse than a DVD cause I've never once had that experience with anything. If the colors are correct it would REALLY have to be spectacularly awful to not be better than a DVD with PAL speedup.

[HuggyBear73]

Orbitdvd has the 4K listed as sold out already.

Did they actually get it in yet?

[formula_nebula]

Originally Posted by HuggyBear73

Orbitdvd has the 4K listed as sold out already.

Did they actually get it in yet?

They had it. I got mine from them last week. They may still get more back in.

[WaverBoy]

I ordered mine from Diabolik. Can’t wait!

[HuggyBear73]

Originally Posted by WaverBoy

I ordered mine from Diabolik. Can’t wait!

Same here. Doesn't appear they got their copies in yet.

[russweiss1]

Review:

https://10kbullets.blogspot.com/

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

Review:

https://10kbullets.blogspot.com/

Review's not very detailed, but there are a lot of screenshot comparisons that show the drastic difference in color timing. Yeah, this fixes the previous blu-ray releases bigtime. I'm looking forward to Diabolik getting their copies in, it's still in "preorder" status there.

[cakefactory]

Received this from Diabolik today, going to watch it tonight!

EDIT: I'm watching it on my little TV, but I still think that Amazon reviewer that was complaining about compression was nuts. This looks great. I really appreciate the proper subtitles, too. Especially since the US dub is a bit distracting. I think it's more jarring hearing Christopher Lee speak with "generic evil guy" voice than it is hearing Italian that doesn't match his lips!

EDIT 2: There's ONE shot that has a weird haze that looks like scanner noise over it early in the movie. I wonder if that's what the guy was complaining about? I seriously only noticed it on one shot. I'll have to take screenshots later.

[cakefactory]

Alright, here's the shot that jumped out to me as looking weird with the amount of grain. But now that I look at it in screenshots I think it's just a grainy shot, nothing "digital." And it looks way more grainy than the Kino cause on the Kino the bush appears to be black-crushed to oblivion. Here's some loose comparisons of some neighboring shots in that scene. I think it should be VERY obvious which came from the Kino!

[Show spoiler]

[Labor_Unit001]

Quite literally night and day here. What were they thinking with that older color grade?

[JohnCarpenterFan]

That's insane. I thought the Kino release was from a 35mm print which meant there was only so much they could do with the grading. I'm trying to understand the discrepancy between the comparisons posted above. It's been so long since I've seen the film but could the comparisons above be from a day-for-night scene? If so then it would appear on the negative (after inversion) as daytime and on the 35mm prints it would appear darker with a bluish tint to simulate night-time.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

That's insane. I thought the Kino release was from a 35mm print which meant there was only so much they could do with the grading. I'm trying to understand the discrepancy between the comparisons posted above. It's been so long since I've seen the film but could the comparisons above be from a day-for-night scene? If so then it would appear on the negative (after inversion) as daytime and on the 35mm prints it would appear darker with a bluish tint to simulate night-time.

It's a day for day scene. The kino just looks like day for night. The whole thing is absolutely drenched in dark blue and often very black-crushed. I can post some more caps at some point, I'm away from my desktop computer right now.

Basically the 88 films release is a resurrection of a movie that was formerly pretty much murdered in HD.

[WaverBoy]

Got mine today, looks beautiful and waaaaaaaay better than the Odeon. Just for one example, the opening scene finally shows the proper sunset glow in the sky; it’s totally absent in the Odeon.

[SMOOT]

Has Tim Lucas weighed in on this release?

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by SMOOT

Has Tim Lucas weighed in on this release?

Dunno. He doesn't appear on any of the special features. His commentary is the one reason to hold onto the Kino if you have the 88 Films version.

Here's a bunch more caps, this time with an emphasis on some darker shots. These aren't exact frames, but sometimes there are jarring differences (I watched and rewatched that segment of the Kino in the last cap a few times to make sure I wasn't just getting the wrong shot or something - her face is really that covered in shadow even though it's indoors during the day!!).

Kino first, then 88 Films.

One other note - the 88 Films clearly removed a hair from the shot of the sun over the ocean. I'm guessing they probably did some other cleanup? Unless that was on the print and not inherent to the source (seems unlikely).

[Show spoiler]

[Richard--W]

Does the 88 Films edition have Tim Lucas' commentary?
Is it the new revised commentary he did for Kino-Lorber
or the old commentary from the previous editions?

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by Richard--W

Does the 88 Films edition have Tim Lucas' commentary?
Is it the new revised commentary he did for Kino-Lorber
or the old commentary from the previous editions?

It does not have a Tim Lucas commentary at all. One from Kim Newman and one from Troy Howarth.

[Richard--W]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

It does not have a Tim Lucas commentary at all. One from Kim Newman and one from Troy Howarth.

Well, that's disappointing.
Kim Newman is a good commentator but a Tim Lucas
commentary is something special and ups the value
of any genre release. He is THE authority on Bava and
he's done two comprehensive commentaries for this
film.