John Carpenter's The Thing...The Perfect Horror Movie?

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

The character's different outlooks was just part of general characterisation. One gets addicted to the sun, which is a nice idea, but there is nothing very challenging there. I don't see how the (scientifically preposterous) idea of restarting the sun would be a 'metaphor' for societies decent into chaos. We can infer that circumstances on earth would be apocalyptic in case of such an event, but what is thought provoking about that ? And yes, the clunky religious overtones at the end, but you wisely shot that down yourself already.

I'm not saying the film needs to be deep, it's an enjoyable ride, exciting and very stylish, but a bit of new agey music and imagery does not make for a thoughtful film alone.

Please don't take this as disparaging,but what do you find thought provoking in 2001?I hope you don't just get on the bandwagon and refer to that movie just because it's the thing to do...

I'll check out Upstream color-although it has received very mixed reviews on IMDB.

PS:For the record:I love 2001.Think it's a seminal work of art.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

Please don't take this as disparaging,but what do you find thought provoking in 2001?I hope you don't just get on the bandwagon and refer to that movie just because it's the thing to do...

I'll check out Upstream color-although it has received very mixed reviews on IMDB.

PS:For the record:I love 2001.Think it's a seminal work of art.

Unlike Sunshine, which is full of nonsense science, 2001 has some hard science fiction ideas in its head. Just like the film has been thought through to make its science as believable as possible, it also presents the most credible of alien encounters, because its aliens are so genuinely unknowable. Unlike in most science fiction films before, the alien wasn't a monster, it was a monolith shaped enigma at the core of human evolution. And because it isn't represented as a creature, we can put out own interpretation onto it.

2001 is also an early example of a science fiction film that proposes that as technology becomes more human, humanity becomes more dehumanised by interacting with technology. HAL is clearly the most emotional and human character in the film while the humans are almost like automatons. Star Trek and films like AI and Blade Runner later elaborated on that idea and I think they too are thoughtful science fiction about the morality of creating artificial life.

And you are left to ponder the greatest WTF ending in film history,which everybody can interpret differently, but which I think ties into the overall theme of evolution.

2001 asks questions that I happen to find intriguing, while in Sunshine the unbelievably early demise of the sun and its revival with a bomb is just nonsense science, there as the MacGuffin for an adventure. And there is nothing wrong with that, not every film has to be deep as long as it's fun.

I was just intrigued what makes people think about Sunshine as it's no more thought provoking than The Core from around the same time. That's a film I also like, but people make fun of because of its bad science, when its premise and plot is pretty similar to that of Sunshine.

[JohnCarpenterLives]

Originally Posted by CranBack

I love The Thing but the monster looks too much like the monster from Alien for the movie to be perfect.

Wut?

[theprestige85]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

The character's different outlooks was just part of general characterisation. One gets addicted to the sun, which is a nice idea, but there is nothing very challenging there. I don't see how the (scientifically preposterous) idea of restarting the sun would be a 'metaphor' for societies decent into chaos. We can infer that circumstances on earth would be apocalyptic in case of such an event, but what is thought provoking about that ? And yes, the clunky religious overtones at the end, but you wisely shot that down yourself already.

I'm not saying the film needs to be deep, it's an enjoyable ride, exciting and very stylish, but a bit of new agey music and imagery does not make for a thoughtful film alone.

I respectfully disagree, mate. Though you do present an interesting argument. I think what you infer is what Mahata was getting at when he spoke of the metaphor.

Scientifically preposterous it may be, but it's still incredibly compelling and does present familiar yet intriguing themes on nature vs man, consciously turning the prometheus mythology on it's head buying having US bring back the fire to the higher beings and such.

think it's a bit more cerebral (outside of the actual science of the fiction) than you give it credit for.

Also, in regards to the third act, i'm one of the few that actually commends it. I like films that take risks and play with the spectator's expectations, and Sunshine did that during it's third act.

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

Unlike Sunshine, which is full of nonsense science, 2001 has some hard science fiction ideas in its head. Just like the film has been thought through to make its science as believable as possible, it also presents the most credible of alien encounters, because its aliens are so genuinely unknowable. Unlike in most science fiction films before, the alien wasn't a monster, it was a monolith shaped enigma at the core of human evolution. And because it isn't represented as a creature, we can put out own interpretation onto it.

2001 is also an early example of a science fiction film that proposes that as technology becomes more human, humanity becomes more dehumanised by interacting with technology. HAL is clearly the most emotional and human character in the film while the humans are almost like automatons. Star Trek and films like AI and Blade Runner later elaborated on that idea and I think they too are thoughtful science fiction about the morality of creating artificial life.

And you are left to ponder the greatest WTF ending in film history,which everybody can interpret differently, but which I think ties into the overall theme of evolution.

2001 asks questions that I happen to find intriguing, while in Sunshine the unbelievably early demise of the sun and its revival with a bomb is just nonsense science, there as the MacGuffin for an adventure. And there is nothing wrong with that, not every film has to be deep as long as it's fun.

I was just intrigued what makes people think about Sunshine as it's no more thought provoking than The Core from around the same time. That's a film I also like, but people make fun of because of its bad science, when its premise and plot is pretty similar to that of Sunshine.

Haven't seen the Core,and I agree on most of what you say about 2001,but think you are missing the point on Sunshine.The obvious pitfall on fitting all of earths remaining nuclear material on a single rocket-which is not very likely unless a VERY big spaceship,I think the filmmakers (primerily the writer(s) and director) went for a philosophical aproach which I am at loss to find arguments by you against.I'm not putting one against the other as you seems to.Maybe we are cross communicating,or maybe I'm missunderstanding this discussion,but I found the 2/3rds of Sunshine (as previously stated) to be stellar film making.It just is let down by the last segment.

Edit:What-except that point of shipping the remaining nuclear fuel on a single rocketship-did you find as nonsensical physics in Sunshine?(Oops,saw now you said science,but the question still remains)I thought it very well made in that regard.

[Josh B]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

I liked Sunshine, but I don't understand claims of what would be intellectually stimulating about it. The science was pretty dumb even for a science fiction movie and it's not like it poses any philosophical or existential questions. It's not like 2001 or the recent Upstream Color, which throw up questions about what you've just seen and which do make you think.

Upstream Color throws nothing up, much less questions left to ponder. The film isn't even that good, imo.

[Show spoiler]It's like leaning against the wall at a house party listening to a couple of prostitutes on the couch arguing with one another as to why they can't find a decent man.

[huntauk]

My top 5 Carpenters in no particular order are,

The Thing
Halloween
They Live
Big Trouble In Little China
Assault on Precinct 13

Aside from Escape From New York I can probably take or leave the rest.

[B72]

Originally Posted by Rich65

No there were other women but she was the brave and hot one.

Wow she was so captivating I don't remember any other women

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

Haven't seen the Core,and I agree on most of what you say about 2001,but think you are missing the point on Sunshine.The obvious pitfall on fitting all of earths remaining nuclear material on a single rocket-which is not very likely unless a VERY big spaceship,I think the filmmakers (primerily the writer(s) and director) went for a philosophical aproach which I am at loss to find arguments by you against.I'm not putting one against the other as you seems to.Maybe we are cross communicating,or maybe I'm missunderstanding this discussion,but I found the 2/3rds of Sunshine (as previously stated) to be stellar film making.It just is let down by the last segment.

Edit:What-except that point of shipping the remaining nuclear fuel on a single rocketship-did you find as nonsensical physics in Sunshine?(Oops,saw now you said science,but the question still remains)I thought it very well made in that regard.

I'm didn't miss the point, I just disagree that there is anything philosophical about the premise of Sunshine.

Originally Posted by Josh B

Upstream Color throws nothing up, much less questions left to ponder. The film isn't even that good, imo.

[spoiler]It's like leaning against the wall at a house party listening to a couple of prostitutes on the couch arguing with one another as to why they can't find a decent man.[/spoiler

I care about your taste in film as much as I care about the type of house parties you seem to frequent.

[Josh B]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

I care about your taste in film as much as I care about the type of house parties you seem to frequent.

Care or not, it won't make Upstream Color any more thought provoking.

[Blu-ray Neo]

For those interested, John Carpenter will be making an appearance at Orlando's Spooky Empire.

I know I'm going with a bunch of cover art and my Halloween 35th Digibook to get signed.


http://www.spookyempire.com/media-guests/

[Gamma_Winstead]

RE: Sunshine

I found it to be an incredible film, until it's last 1/3, where it just copied Event Horizon, a much underrated, better film. Sunshine would have benefited avoiding the whole "monster" aspect and focusing on the crew/complications with the mission. That'd be much more fascinating a film than what we got.

In regards to The Thing, it's not the best horror film ever made, but it's easily in my top 10, if not top 5 horror films. I'd have to go more in depth with my thoughts to decide the full list and placement.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

RE: Sunshine

I found it to be an incredible film, until it's last 1/3, where it just copied Event Horizon, a much underrated, better film. Sunshine would have benefited avoiding the whole "monster" aspect and focusing on the crew/complications with the mission. That'd be much more fascinating a film than what we got.

In regards to The Thing, it's not the best horror film ever made, but it's easily in my top 10, if not top 5 horror films. I'd have to go more in depth with my thoughts to decide the full list and placement.

Event Horizon copied Solaris, a much better film.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

Unlike Sunshine, which is full of nonsense science, 2001 has some hard science fiction ideas in its head. Just like the film has been thought through to make its science as believable as possible, it also presents the most credible of alien encounters, because its aliens are so genuinely unknowable. Unlike in most science fiction films before, the alien wasn't a monster, it was a monolith shaped enigma at the core of human evolution. And because it isn't represented as a creature, we can put out own interpretation onto it.

2001 is also an early example of a science fiction film that proposes that as technology becomes more human, humanity becomes more dehumanised by interacting with technology. HAL is clearly the most emotional and human character in the film while the humans are almost like automatons. Star Trek and films like AI and Blade Runner later elaborated on that idea and I think they too are thoughtful science fiction about the morality of creating artificial life.

And you are left to ponder the greatest WTF ending in film history,which everybody can interpret differently, but which I think ties into the overall theme of evolution.

2001 asks questions that I happen to find intriguing, while in Sunshine the unbelievably early demise of the sun and its revival with a bomb is just nonsense science, there as the MacGuffin for an adventure. And there is nothing wrong with that, not every film has to be deep as long as it's fun.

I was just intrigued what makes people think about Sunshine as it's no more thought provoking than The Core from around the same time. That's a film I also like, but people make fun of because of its bad science, when its premise and plot is pretty similar to that of Sunshine.

Fully agree here - Sunshine started good and then devolved into a crappy B-level horror film. They ruined what was a good premise. Pissed me off!

2001 is a great film but I fully understand why some dont care for it or dont find it intriguing. I do though

As for The Thing: Its a classic that has a lot going for it but *some* of the effects are pretty pathetic looking now. When the dude gets grabbed by the head and flailed around during the blood test it looks just terrible. Couple other scenes are pretty cheesey too. But, overall - its still a solid film and on my media rack.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

Event Horizon copied Solaris, a much better film.

Can't say I've seen the original Solaris.

Event Horizon is a victim of studio edits, with well over 40 minutes of footage cut and lost. It could have been much better than it is.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

Can't say I've seen the original Solaris.

Event Horizon is a victim of studio edits, with well over 40 minutes of footage cut and lost. It could have been much better than it is.

Apart from the production design, it's a pretty bad movie. I'm not going to judge it by what it could have been. Despite Sunshine having some flaws, it's a far better and more coherent films.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

Apart from the production design, it's a pretty bad movie. I'm not going to judge it by what it could have been. Despite Sunshine having some flaws, it's a far better and more coherent films.

Can't say I agree.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by leem6453

Just thinking about this movie I get excited. It's one of the few films that I can watch probably weekly and still be highly entertained. It's a perfect execution in suspense as only Carpenter can provide. Even though it failed miserably to E.T. at the box office, it just couldn't be ignored and has become not only a cult classic, but one of the greatest horror films of all time.

Profess you love for The Thing now!

Sorry man Id have to say Halloween or the Original Nightmare is the perfect horror film.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by R3P0

Sorry man Id have to say Halloween or the Original Nightmare is the perfect horror film.

I'm with you on Halloween, it's the horror film pared down to its essentials.

[Astro Zombie]

Originally Posted by R3P0

Sorry man Id have to say Halloween or the Original Nightmare is the perfect horror film.

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

I'm with you on Halloween, it's the horror film pared down to its essentials.